skins island connection Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Burgold said: There's someone who likes Bruce Allen? I mean maybe his kids on Xmas morning, but outside that... There's someone who likes Bruce Allen? Bruce Allen pros ended perennial cap hell post Shanahan drafts have been decent to good. Bruce Allen negatives loses too many home grown players due to cheapness and antagonism is disliked by agents, fellow GMs and others he needs to work with PR debacle after PR debacle a history of really bad signings a nearly ten year long record of losing teams no long term vision or continuity (feels more a lurch from one idea to another) hires bad to mediocre head coaches may step on the toes and intrude into other people's sphere of influence (if Bruce is telling Jay who to play, who to keep active, and anything else when it comes to game day decisions that's really bad.) Cheapness extends to building poor training staffs and facilities where there is no cap. He's cheap. There's a difference between frugal and cheap. I believe he is a backstabber and creates negativity in the locker room and among fans by planting, whispering negative stories. sorry 'bout that, Burg, I was trying to say " people who are like Bruce Allen ", or "people such as Bruce Allen". The only person who may like Bruce is the liquor store owner. maybe the makers of Prozac. I had a picture of Bruce Allen awhile back, and tried to use it as a training pad for my puppy to take a dump on. But Max wouldn't go near it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, skins island connection said: sorry 'bout that, Burg, I was trying to say " people who are like Bruce Allen ", or "people such as Bruce Allen". The only person who may like Bruce is the liquor store owner. maybe the makers of Prozac. I had a picture of Bruce Allen awhile back, and tried to use it as a training pad for my puppy to take a dump on. But Max wouldn't go near it... No worries. I've been accused of being a Bruce-lover because I was willing to admit we've had a couple of strong drafts. Thing is, we have had a couple of strong drafts in a row, but after 9 years, you really have to at some point look at the bottom line which is... are you winning? So, though there are a couple interesting glimmers of light (mainly on the D line which for almost all of Allen's tenure they refused to address despite fans begging him to) by and large we feel so much closer to a year one than a year ten in terms of continuity, progress, and culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Burgold said: Bruce Allen pros ended perennial cap hell We are right back in cap hell. We need to take a $52,600,000 cap hit on a QB who will never play another down for us. 2 hours ago, SkinsGuy said: Well, in fairness to ES, this was a Saturday evening/night game. Most folks probably went out after the game. Unlike a Sunday night, where they would stay home. Not to mention this is the last weekend before Christmas. Many probably have a lot to get done. There would've been more reaction here if this game was on a Sunday afternoon. You'll probably see more reaction as Christmas Eve Eve rolls on. If yesterday was a win that got us to 9-5, the boards wold have been hopping no matter what holiday was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Burgold said: There's someone who likes Bruce Allen? I mean maybe his kids on Xmas morning, but outside that... There's someone who likes Bruce Allen? Bruce Allen pros ended perennial cap hell I can't even give him full credit on this one because even though we got screwed, he was still at the helm and ignoring wink wink understandings from 30 other owners who dislike Dan Snyder when we did what we pleased and got that huge cap penalty that crippled us for years, including Griffin's only good season where we took the league by storm having only been able to afford Pierre Garcon in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Why would anyone want to hand over the OC role to O'Connell? He's the dude who definitely lent his voice to approving Mark Sanchez, having worked with him before. He called the plays for Sanchez that had half his balls getting knocked down at the LOS (despite knowing what Sanchez is) and this offense going nowhere. I'm not saying he's definitely terrible, but just the fact that he falls within the stereotypical NFL coach cocoon that would rather work with the same bad QB they have been in the same room with before than try something that may actually work is a strike against his record. More importantly he's done nothing to earn any sort of promotion here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Not sure if this belongs more in the Jay thread or here but there is definitely overlap as to the subjects especially when dysfunction and power plays are in conversation. I am among an increasingly shrinking crowd camp as to Jay -- i like more things about him than dislike. I'd keep him unless they are total sure they have a better Plan B. Now I don't agree he's Coach of the Year -- but I agree with the thesis of the point which is if you consider all the dysfunction and add in the injuries -- Jay is somewhat a calm in the storm dude who hasn't let things completely unravel. My biggest disagreement with some on Jay is about his personality -- in my book the dude if anything has the perfect personality to deal with dysfunction and distraction -- a laid back, roll with the punches type who can network Bruce and Dan when needed. I don't think its an accident that he's had the best run of all of Dan's coaches. And look I agree that there are better coaches. But I don't think its that easy to find a better replacement for THIS FO. https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/23/ravens-defense-chargers-weddle-rivers-jay-gruden-hot-seat-titans-saints-offense-problems-josh-gordon 2b. Jay Gruden is a shrewd play designer, one of the league’s better in-game play-callers and I while I can think of a few instances in which his team didn’t play well, I can’t think of a game in which they didn’t play hard. This offseason, the front office hamstrung him by letting his quarterback walk and replacing him with Alex Smith, a great dude but an ultra-conservative passer with a limited ceiling (presumably someone in that front office either made a decision based purely on box-score stats or didn’t realize Smith wasn’t bringing Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill with him). Gruden was forced to patch an offense together with a street free agent at running back and after both starting guards got hurt, then after Smith’s injury had to rotate through a mid-level backup in Colt McCoy, a guy who had no right being in the league in Mark Sanchez, and a mid-level No. 3 in Josh Johnson. Under those circumstances, most teams would have been looking ahead to their top-five pick in the spring rather than hanging around in playoff contention a few days before Christmas. This franchise has a recent history of almost comedic dysfunction, but even they must realize that Gruden is closer to Coach of the Year than a hot seat, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 On 2b - I can think of a ton of games where Jay’s players didn’t play hard. Maybe as much as a dozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, Burgold said: On 2b - I can think of a ton of games where Jay’s players didn’t play hard. Maybe as much as a dozen. Agree but I've seen many teams just tank a season see for example McAdoo the season before. This team usually rises up after they fall. Jay isn't the perfect coach and don't want to turn the Bruce thread into a Jay debate. But just saying Jay's ability to deal with dysfunction and roll with the punches I think is a necessary attribute to survive the jungle. I've said before I like Bruce Arians over Jay as a HC but I don't see Arians working out there -- he's too headstrong, doesn't suffer fools gladly where I think he could last working with people like Bruce-Dan. If a new HC is what people want -- you got to put a new GM/president in charge who isn't just competent but also can change the culture. I know on that front I am stating the obvious. Will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 That has gotta be one of the most uninformed paragraphs about Gruden I've ever seen. From the comments about player effort to his in-game playcalling...I mean, was this written in 2013 about the Bengals offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Isifhan said: I don't think it will really matter what coaches leave. If it's Gruden that's picking their replacements it will be more of the same. Does he really need a 4th chance to pick a D coordinator? You sure they've been Jay's picks & not Bruce's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Just watched Nick Foles throw an 80 yard touchdown pass to an Eagles receiver. It was the longest Eagle touchdown pass of the year. I wonder if Allen even contacted the Eagles about trading for Foles before he signed Alex Smith. The huge contract he gave Alex could have gone to Foles. If the Eagles would not trade him then you go with the backup quarterback like Colt THIS year and then sign Foles in 2019 instead. Now with Carson Wentz health going south (they are running him into the ground like we did with you know who a few years ago). Their head coach was a backup quarterback in the NFL and may realize he should let Foles go. Also, the Eagles cannot afford to pay him the bigger bucks next year because of Wentz contract. I would really like our local press guys to investigate whether or not the Redskins ever made any effort to check into Foles availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 hour ago, veteranskinsfan said: Just watched Nick Foles throw an 80 yard touchdown pass to an Eagles receiver. It was the longest Eagle touchdown pass of the year. I wonder if Allen even contacted the Eagles about trading for Foles before he signed Alex Smith. The huge contract he gave Alex could have gone to Foles. If the Eagles would not trade him then you go with the backup quarterback like Colt THIS year and then sign Foles in 2019 instead. Now with Carson Wentz health going south (they are running him into the ground like we did with you know who a few years ago). Their head coach was a backup quarterback in the NFL and may realize he should let Foles go. Also, the Eagles cannot afford to pay him the bigger bucks next year because of Wentz contract. I would really like our local press guys to investigate whether or not the Redskins ever made any effort to check into Foles availability. The Eagles weren’t trading Foles because they didn’t know 100% when Wentz would be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 hours ago, TK said: You sure they've been Jay's picks & not Bruce's? Is that a rhetorical question or are you trying to tell us something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Got no insider information obviously so just going purely on gossip from beat guys especially Finlay Just about slam dunk Jay is back Better than 50-50 chance Manusky is fired Almost slam dunk Bruce is back initially but that might change in the Spring or after the draft depending on circumstances. I think the best shot for Bruce to go is a really pathetic showing both as for attendance and how the team plays next Sunday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Makes no ****ing sense to keep Allen until the spring. What it does tell you is that even if he goes, it will definitely be Kyle Smith or bust at GM. Otherwise they wouldn't feel keeping Allen till the spring (why???) was a realistic option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Renegade7 said: Is that a rhetorical question or are you trying to tell us something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Makes no ****ing sense to keep Allen until the spring. What it does tell you is that even if he goes, it will definitely be Kyle Smith or bust at GM. Otherwise they wouldn't feel keeping Allen till the spring (why???) was a realistic option. I don't understand why teams in any sport ever do that. "OK, the GM we have needs to be fired and a new one brought in. But first, let's have the GM we don't want dictate our future by conducting a draft, so we that the guy we do want running our team can't." I guess I should say I don't understand why most teams do that. I totally get why this organization might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, TK said: Second time this year I've seen you give a direct hint to Bruce not being safe (first time we were still winning more then losing). I'll take that over the constant doom and gloom of him having Ernie level protection status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Second time this year I've seen you give a direct hint to Bruce not being safe That's not what that was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, TK said: That's not what that was. I'll keep reading between the tea leaves then, new Andyman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Just now, Renegade7 said: I'll keep reading between the tea leaves then, new Andyman. Get glasses. 🤓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 5 hours ago, TK said: You sure they've been Jay's picks & not Bruce's? Not sure why this is not obvious to so many. I truly apologize for not giving proper credit here, but someone floated the idea Jay is letting these guys speak out about the team to get Dans attention because Bruce has given him his opinion and then him shielded him from Dan. While a little conspiracy theoryish (is this a word? lol), I find this entirely plausible. It would answer many questions - and explain many of the more questionable calls that have been attributed to Jay. This is who Bruce reminds me of - only in real life: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 5 hours ago, TK said: You sure they've been Jay's picks & not Bruce's? I’m going to say it’s Grudens picks with Bruce’s blessing. Shrug. If I was a head coach and didn’t get to choose my staff I’d make a big deal about it and force the organization to fire me. I wouldn’t lead a team I didn’t select or believe in and be accountable for the results. The flip side is it appears as though Jay isn’t actually accountable for his results anyway, so in this situation maybe I really wouldn’t care. Shrug. It’s a big whatever. If Jays back next year the ceiling is 9 wins. Regardless of what happens at GM. If Bruce and Jay are back, the ceilin is probably 6 next year. Dan will either figure out he’s got the wrong people in charge eventually or he won’t. Either he continues to buy the excuses or he doesn’t. Whats intereting is I think he’s not going to make a change partly because he would get killles for firing Jay by the national media, because those idiots don’t actually watch games and see how bad Jay actually is. They just see the injury report and give Jay a pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I’m going to say it’s Grudens picks with Bruce’s blessing. Shrug. If I was a head coach and didn’t get to choose my staff I’d make a big deal about it and force the organization to fire me. I wouldn’t lead a team I didn’t select or believe in and be accountable for the results. The flip side is it appears as though Jay isn’t actually accountable for his results anyway, so in this situation maybe I really wouldn’t care. Shrug. It’s a big whatever. If Jays back next year the ceiling is 9 wins. Regardless of what happens at GM. If Bruce and Jay are back, the ceilin is probably 6 next year. Dan will either figure out he’s got the wrong people in charge eventually or he won’t. Either he continues to buy the excuses or he doesn’t. Whats intereting is I think he’s not going to make a change partly because he would get killles for firing Jay by the national media, because those idiots don’t actually watch games and see how bad Jay actually is. They just see the injury report and give Jay a pass. Or maybe the true experts - not the national media, but NFL insider experts - see he is not nearly as bad as you and some fans make him out to be.... As far as the first part - you/we have no idea what the arrangement was when he was hired. He may have been told he would not get to pick his assistants. Or, and what I believe is closer to the truth - it started out as a few "suggestions" and then those suggestions have gotten more strong over time to the point the assistant choices are not his alone. In fairness, DC is really the only bad assistant on the staff. Callahan, Tomsula, etc. are pretty good coaches and in fairness have kept the team competitive even with all the injuries. I agree the end results cannot be blamed on the injuries since many of them are to players that had injury histories. But that is mostly on Bruce. He is after all playing GM - and I say playing for obvious reasons. I can see Dan and Bruce "convincing" Jay that Manusky is the best choice, that Barry is the best choice. As for Haslett, they coached a championship together in the USFL so they had to at least give it one season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Gradual, maybe, Gruden used to coach under Haz and then said outloud multiple times Barry was his pick. Maybe the last one Bruce stepped in on, but if this an attempt to make me feel better, its not working. I'll just need to read more while keeping in mind that historically I've noticed national media having an outside looking in perspective on us. Not so much calling it how they see it versus calling what they see, pay attention to, or gets them clicks. If someone wants to post NFL Insiders defending Jay, I'll read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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