The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Not sure how true this is, to be honest. I've seen Allen in the press box on game days and he's not anywhere near the replay booth. He's been in with the press for at least a game or two. Although I saw Scot much more often than I've seen Allen. 

 

It's true, that's been public that its his role, its not speculation but its fact.  Jay talked about it.   I questioned it in the past on this thread after hearing Jay say it and on this very thread people posted verifications of it.

 

Scot typically from what I recall was on the sidelines versus up in a booth.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Nothing against JP Finlay, but I've never known him as one to break anything. He reports things that do occur and I understand that he's around the team a lot. But he doesn't strike me as the type of guy with people embedded in Ashburn. 

 

Barring a playoff run (and no, I don't think it SHOULD change the organization's course, but I think it WILL) I think Snyder will pull the plug on Allen. I don't know exactly what that means (ask him to resign, fire him, re-assign him away from football, etc.) but I do think 8-8 or worse will result in that. 

 

Even though, from there, the idea of an complete overhaul is attractive, I think what we'd see (and I'd be enthusiastic about) is a Schaffer/Smith/Williams front office along with another year of Gruden/Manusky. I can't say I'd love this and I can't say that I'd hate it. The reason not to love it for me is that it's a little too status quo for a team that has appeared to plateau. On the other hand, we have had a lot of injuries and have "improved" to a consistently viable team year-in and year-out. 

 

If I knew that highly-regarded guys like Schaffer and Smith were truly in charge moving forward, I'd have some optimism that we would pull the right levers to put us over the hump. 

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Nothing against JP Finlay, but I've never known him as one to break anything. He reports things that do occur and I understand that he's around the team a lot. But he doesn't strike me as the type of guy with people embedded in Ashburn. 

 

 

Disagree. After the sit down I had with Scot, the one dude I mentioned months later that year who seemed to know just about everything I learned and nail it was Finlay.  Ironically, Finlay was the dude I saw in that building that day.  I think Keim-Finlay are the most plugged in from what I observed -- gossip that turns to reality.   Finlay nailed just about every turn on the predecessor QB negotiations among other things.

 

 Russell specifically is plugged in with a good source to the FO but not so much other things.  It doesn't seem like any of the WP reporters are plugged in -- Mike Jones was plugged in back when he worked there. 

 

15 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Barring a playoff run (and no, I don't think it SHOULD change the organization's course, but I think it WILL) I think Snyder will pull the plug on Allen. I don't know exactly what that means (ask him to resign, fire him, re-assign him away from football, etc.) but I do think 8-8 or worse will result in that. 

 

Hope so.  Both local and national sources like I said seem to have no clue where anything is possible but if there is a leaning, the leaning is Bruce stays.    But all seem to agree the last 2 games likely has an impact if Dan is waffling.   I think Dan is hard to predict because supposedly he has a small circle and they don't talk so to your point there is a major speculative aspect to this so really anything is possible because the real answer is likely no one knows because Dan hasn't tipped his hand.

 

15 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

If I knew that highly-regarded guys like Schaffer and Smith were truly in charge moving forward, I'd have some optimism that we would pull the right levers to put us over the hump. 

 

Me, too,

[DJHJR86]

I don't want Bruce Allen "re-assigned".  I want him gone.  Anything else will be a failure for this organization.  

[wit33]

58 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Finlay also went back to the Alex Smith trade and said coaches weren't aware the deal was being done but were cool with it once they heard about it.   Finlay suggested a similar dynamic with Clinton-Dix and he more or less implied in a podcast that Clinton-Dix is likely getting lots of playing time in spite of his struggles so the decision makers who made the trade can ultimately be vindicated.

 

The idea that the GM makes moves without consulting with coaches -- I understand that but when that also then factors in said players playing time that's taking it a step too far.

 

And to preempt the few people (not you) who like to defend Bruce.  Yeah I don't think Bruce is doing his own scouting.  But I'll stick with the analogy I used the other day its like me watching CNBC and listening to talking heads tout different stocks -- then I pick which stock suits me based on what I heard. 

 

So lets say its Alex Smith, I recall a narrative that O'Connell liked the dude on watching tape and if Bruce is moved by what O'Connell said -- then hey lets go get that dude.  Then surprise, surprise -- Doug, Jay guess who I got yesterday, you got a new QB!!!   Back in 2014, Bruce subscribed to Scot's scouting services and strongly hinted in one of his interviews (back when it was cool for Bruce to like Scot) that they used it and that was part of why they hired Scot.     So yeah the picture is painted that Bruce isn't making his own evaluations but still he's the dude that's sorting through other people's ideas and making the ultimate decision -- and i think that's a big deal.

 

But to me, the whole process -- the personnel decisions and apparently Bruce messing with Jay seems warped.  Now the beat reporters have been consistent that Dan isn't himself doing any of this and Dan is likely thinking -- what gives damned if you do, damned if you don't.  But to me even if that's so, to me speaks even more about his ownership failures if his solution to removing himself and finding a mini-Dan and lets him rule the roost in an over the top heavy handed way just like he would during his spell of this stuff. 

 

What is the consensus of responsibilities of an NFL GM? Do the more successful franchises not have the GM and coach at odds over players and playing time? Truly curious, as I don’t follow other teams with any great detail. We always hear about fallouts between a GM and coach, even when successful at times. This leads me to believe much of what we hear is common place in the NFL, but admittedly, I’m basing it off very little information. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

38 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

I don't want Bruce Allen "re-assigned".  I want him gone.  Anything else will be a failure for this organization.  

 

Yes, but this isn't the same as writing a list to Santa...

 

If I had to choose between "nothing" and "Bruce is now New Stadium Liaison" I'd take the latter. 

[KDawg]

22 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

What is the consensus of responsibilities of an NFL GM? Do the more successful franchises not have the GM and coach at odds over players and playing time? Truly curious, as I don’t follow other teams with any great detail. We always hear about fallouts between a GM and coach, even when successful at times. This leads me to believe much of what we hear is common place in the NFL, but admittedly, I’m basing it off very little information. 

 

From what I've heard... GMs/coaches talk about scheme and player fits. GM goes and gets players. Coach makes decisions on playing time. GM and coach bounces things off of each other as far as player acquisition and playing time ideas. But ultimately the coach is in charge of the on-field product you see on Sunday and the GM is in charge of building the roster for that on-field product.

 

There are caveats with different teams and relationships around the NFL. But that is the general structure. 

 

Most coaches don't want to be definitively be told what to do with each player. But I'm sure each deals with some level of it. 

[Taylor 36]

20 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm not buying it that nobody will want the job, we may need to dig deep and look at a younger more unproven coaching talent but I wish that we would do that anyway.

 

The last thing I would want is McCarthy or one of these other old retread coaches.

What good is having a young up and comer if Bruce won't allow him to make any decisions on personnel, who plays and how much, and when to throw his red flag.  I'm sure that would only be the beginning of the restrictions put on a young coach if he had to work under Bruce.  There is no point in bringing in anyone, new or old, if Bruce is still calling the shots.

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

From what I've heard... GMs/coaches talk about scheme and player fits. GM goes and gets players. Coach makes decisions on playing time. GM and coach bounces things off of each other as far as player acquisition and playing time ideas. But ultimately the coach is in charge of the on-field product you see on Sunday and the GM is in charge of building the roster for that on-field product.

 

There are caveats with different teams and relationships around the NFL. But that is the general structure. 

 

Most coaches don't want to be definitively be told what to do with each player. But I'm sure each deals with some level of it. 

 

I appreciate it. This is the cookie cutter description, but I tend to believe things are more nuanced. 

 

Thoughts on high draft picks in many cases automatically receiving playing time around the league? This because of the FO or coach, in your view? 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I appreciate it. This is the cookie cutter description, but I tend to believe things are more nuanced. 

 

Thoughts on high draft picks in many cases automatically receiving playing time around the league? This because of the FO or coach, in your view? 

 

Having talked to NFL coaches: Both. Most coaches are on board with the draft choices at least in some capacity. Some have PT thrust on them by the FO, some don't. Typically, the winning organizations don't do as much thrusting. But it happens most places. 

 

I've heard a few stories here and there. But don't want to go into too much detail. 

 

EDIT: To clarify, that doesn't mean the winning orgs don't play younger guys. It's that they aren't forced to... at least immediately.

[mcgraw238]

As a lifelong Redskins fan I find this entire thread depressing. For the first time in my life I was largely checked out on this season despite the fast start. Snyder might be a billionaire but I regard him as a moron when it comes to operating a functional football franchise. I don't see why I should give a crap about the team if Snyder is going to continue to operate things this way and keep this clown in charge of the franchise. The sad reality is that the  legion of hardcore skins fans is getting smaller by the day. I never thought I'd see the day where I just don't care what is going on with the team. Congratulations Mr. Snyder for ruining a great franchise.

[NewCliche21]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Having talked to NFL coaches: Both. Most coaches are on board with the draft choices at least in some capacity. Some have PT thrust on them by the FO, some don't. Typically, the winning organizations don't do as much thrusting. But it happens most places. 

 

I've heard a few stories here and there. But don't want to go into too much detail. 

 

EDIT: To clarify, that doesn't mean the winning orgs don't play younger guys. It's that they aren't forced to... at least immediately.

 

Yeah, there's definitely an insinuation that the more you spend on a guy, be it picks/money/hype, the more pressure there is to start him.  I remember Shanny saying something along the lines of, before OTA's, that Griffin was the starter.  Something like, "You don't trade all those picks to get a guy to have him sit on the bench."

To be honest, now that I'm a parent, it sounds like when a parent says, "Oh you're gonna wear those damn shoes and you're going to like it.  They cost $125!"

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

From what I've heard... GMs/coaches talk about scheme and player fits. GM goes and gets players. Coach makes decisions on playing time. GM and coach bounces things off of each other as far as player acquisition and playing time ideas. But ultimately the coach is in charge of the on-field product you see on Sunday and the GM is in charge of building the roster for that on-field product.

 

There are caveats with different teams and relationships around the NFL. But that is the general structure. 

 

Most coaches don't want to be definitively be told what to do with each player. But I'm sure each deals with some level of it. 

 

It almost reminds me of someone who gets a party planner or interior designer or architect.  You tell them the idea of what you want, and they go get it along with things you don't know that you need and/or eliminating things you don't.

Or when my parents who are in their 70's want me to pick out a new phone for them but don't want the fancy stuff because who needs it?  And now they sign their 40 texts a day "Love, Mom and Dad" no matter how much I tell them not to.  And how much they like taking pictures even though they do it wrong.  Sigh.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

 

It almost reminds me of someone who gets a party planner or interior designer or architect.  You tell them the idea of what you want, and they go get it along with things you don't know that you need and/or eliminating things you don't.

 

 

I prefer to look at it as the GM has designed and furnished the room with the head coach's input. But the head coach is responsible for cleaning it. But if the coach moves a furniture piece somewhere that the GM doesn't like, the GM may be like, "Hey, put that back!" and the head coach can say, "I don't like the way that looks there. So I'm putting this there!" or "Oh. Sorry. My bad."

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[KDawg]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's true, that's been public that its his role, its not speculation but its fact.  Jay talked about it.   I questioned it in the past on this thread after hearing Jay say it and on this very thread people posted verifications of it.

 

Scot typically from what I recall was on the sidelines versus up in a booth.

 

Scot was pretty much next to me in the booth at least twice.

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Scot was pretty much next to me in the booth at least twice.

 

OK, saw him on the field multiple times during games.  So maybe he switched it up.   As for it being questionable that Bruce does the challenges -- Jay flat out said he does them.   Bruce thankfully I've not noticed on the field aside from before games. 😀

[Chump Bailey]

7 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Yes, but this isn't the same as writing a list to Santa...

 

If I had to choose between "nothing" and "Bruce is now New Stadium Liaison" I'd take the latter. 

 

Even better: Men's Club Level Restroom Courtesy Attendant

[JSSkinz]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's true, that's been public that its his role, its not speculation but its fact.  Jay talked about it.   I questioned it in the past on this thread after hearing Jay say it and on this very thread people posted verifications of it.

 

Scot typically from what I recall was on the sidelines versus up in a booth.

We've seen the camera's flash to Bruce during games and he's not wearing a headset or looking at any monitors so how would he be in charge of replay?

 

I watch all of Jay's pressers and I missed him saying this, was it recently?

[NewCliche21]

30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Scot was pretty much next to me in the booth at least twice.

 

Hmm, might be specific to you . . .

 

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Hmm, might be specific to you . . .

 

 

To note: his wife was with him one of the times. She talked to everyone.

[HardcoreZorn]

On 12/18/2018 at 10:46 PM, Andre The Giant said:

 

As fans, we need to be careful what we demand. Remember the negative reaction to Jim Fassell?  He would’ve been a better choice than Zorn. 

 

Fans often don’t know the full story behind the scenes. We parse this info. together on message boards, etc.  But demanding changes without having all the info. doesn’t make any sense. 

 

It’d be interesting to get a take from other Execuitves around the league regarding the Skins. Bet Jay Gruden’s held in higher regard than he is by this fan base.  Not so sure about Allen.

 

We’re a lot better off with this crew in charge than with Vinny / Zorn.

Don’t bother speaking logic. 

 

There are 13 teams with more wins than the Redskins  since 2015. 2 teams with the same amount. So that puts us between 14-16 in wins since Jay was allowed to play who he wanted at QB. 

 

All I have to say is, if our coach sucks this bad. And our FO sucks this bad. What the hell are teams 17-32 doing in the league? I mean seriously, reading through this thread you would think we’re the 2015-2017 Browns.

 

Ive spoken out recently about change because we appear to be hovering in no mans land, and the fanbase is downright fed up at this point. We could use a shot in the arm and the goal should never be complacency nor mediocrity. I fear that’s where we’re headed. 

 

But make no mistake, there is worse out there. We’ve seen it with our own 2 eyes and anyone who says otherwise flat out doesn’t remember the clown show this operation used to be. 

 

At this point from what I have gathered, Bruce makes the game plan, calls the plays, brings the water to the huddle, forces the coaches who to start, makes surprise trades without the input of coaches, challenges the plays. Clearly not being phased out, instead we have what looks to be the first one man GM/Coach show in NFL history. Impressive really.

 

How about his. How about Finlay goes and writes a story about how awesome Jon Allen and Daron Payne are going to be as cornerstones to this defense for years. Or write about the incredible story of Josh Johnson and the potential Cinderella story to come.

 

Nahhh. That **** don’t sell. 

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

We've seen the camera's flash to Bruce during games and he's not wearing a headset or looking at any monitors so how would he be in charge of replay?

 

I watch all of Jay's pressers and I missed him saying this, was it recently?

 

Few weeks ago he said it on his coaches show.  I mentioned I was surprised by it -- but then others pulled up other evidence of it that I missed in the past. 

[JSSkinz]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Few weeks ago he said it on his coaches show.  I mentioned I was surprised by it -- but then others pulled up other evidence of it that I missed in the past. 

That's the one show I don't watch, wow, that's insane and logistically how does that even work without Bruce being in the booth in front of a monitor with a headset for communication.

 

This is just as crazy as him meddling with the lineups, IMO.

[skins island connection]

9 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Yes, but this isn't the same as writing a list to Santa...

 

If I had to choose between "nothing" and "Bruce is now New Stadium Liaison" I'd take the latter. 

 

 Bruce Allen having anything to do with a new stadium ?  There's another name for that; HALFWAY HOUSE...

 

Why build a new stadium if you're only gonna fill it up with rejects, former big name players, criminals and relatives?

 

I'm in the " I want to see Bruce Allen permanently removed from anything Redskins" crowd.  I want a taser attached to his butt, and every time he mentions anything Redskins-related or even looks in the direction of Redskin Park it gives him that 'hello' sting.

[TK]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Scot was pretty much next to me in the booth at least twice.

But you weren’t at every game.    

 

Scott went where he wanted to. Sometimes he’d start in the Press Box & end up in a private box (if the wife was with him) or on the field. Even the he’d end up on the field. I’d usually end up having some sort of conversation with him on the field.