The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[spjunkies]

The Raiders just fired their idiot yet here we are still twiddling our thumbs 👎

[RandyHolt]

The Foster signing has been a trainwreck. The GF even went on Good Morning America. Ooops.  It won't get much more public than that.  I questioned something off the beaten path, a future free agent thinking about signing here, and maybe his wife having input. Yeah, NO.

 

I can't imagine how the heads are spinning within the locker room, having cited our OWN current players as basically signing off on an accused domestic violence case.  Don't you put my name down there. The best thing going, is that we have enough Bama guys to hopefully let them escape without being linked to Foster.  Probably no Bama players were consulted and we lied.  And Jay tossed to the media on day 1? What a disaster. And then Doug next, who has to apologize for what he said. And then the official press release, where we spelled Williams wrong. What is the hell is going on???

 

"Individual-B" got Alex and inked him to a big extension, and then didn't appear to be a good fit in Jay's offense to these eyes. And got Alex, yet didn't tell our GM. Turn off your phone. You can't make this stuff up. And the best move we made, bringing in AP, he had nothing to do with.  I think that was done by Doug, for spite.  Why didn't Bruce get a WR? Floyd isn't cutting it.

 

He has created so much internal dissension, its cause alone to be relieved of duties.  Our division rivals will be laughing all the way to seasons end at the front offices ineptness; stealing first place from us easier than taking candy from a kid.

 

That's all just this year!   It's time. If he doesn't get fired now, he never will.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

You could zero in on just the QB situation (which is logical since it's the magical unicorn of professional sports success), and make an easy, slam dunk case that Allen should be let go: 

 

2010: McNabb trade - we gave up far too much and the guy didn't even complete a full season

2012: RG3 trade up - the pick itself was defensible, but gutting the team's impact picks for the next 2 years was not

2017: Losing Cousins - it's possible they couldn't have retained him, but there's no reason to spend all that guaranteed money on him and let him walk for nothing 

2018: Extending Smith - again, the trade in and of itself wasn't horrible in my opinion, but the extension and Smith's performance were bad

 

That's a ****-ton of resources allocated to the position and, ironically, the only time we got above league-average output (outside of 2012) was when we just used a 4th round pick to draft Cousins. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

D. Hall on the postgame seemed to allude that they could have done better than signing Sanchez and that signing might have been psychologically demoralizing to some players because they'd have no faith in the dude.  

Yeah, I'm watching it now on replay.  Makes sense.  It's like I was saying last week, when folks were up in arms about a bad vibe around the park as far as complaining about practicing and all that.  I can't imagine what it's like to have to pretend to believe in Mark Sanchez.

[Thinking Skins]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

2018: Extending Smith - again, the trade in and of itself wasn't horrible in my opinion, but the extension and Smith's performance were bad

 

I disagree, I was SOOO against the trade. I was praying it was a rumor at the time, and its not even about what we gave up but its about the question of the need for it. And people have debated Smith's quality as a QB, but that's less of my concern. Its more about what else was available. Why not go after a FA QB? Why not go after a draft QB? Why not trade for a backup like AJ McCarron? There were so many options available at the time and this seemed like a rushed move. 

 

In my opinion it was kinda easy to get behind because like the other moves you mention here (minus losing the guy who had been here) it was a move for a big name QB that brought stability. The extension could be defended because it was probably the only way to get him to agree to the trade. But I just never wanted that trade. I'm never a fan of bringing in older players. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

You could zero in on just the QB situation (which is logical since it's the magical unicorn of professional sports success), and make an easy, slam dunk case that Allen should be let go: 

 

2010: McNabb trade - we gave up far too much and the guy didn't even complete a full season

2012: RG3 trade up - the pick itself was defensible, but gutting the team's impact picks for the next 2 years was not

2017: Losing Cousins - it's possible they couldn't have retained him, but there's no reason to spend all that guaranteed money on him and let him walk for nothing 

2018: Extending Smith - again, the trade in and of itself wasn't horrible in my opinion, but the extension and Smith's performance were bad

 

That's a ****-ton of resources allocated to the position and, ironically, the only time we got above league-average output (outside of 2012) was when we just used a 4th round pick to draft Cousins. 

I've made that case numerous times, only to be met with excuses from some of the fan base.  Right now this kind of stuff might get more traction.  However, it won't be long before those same folks start fictional tales about how the wheels only fell off due to bad luck with the Smith injury and all else here roster wise is rather swell.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

You could zero in on just the QB situation (which is logical since it's the magical unicorn of professional sports success), and make an easy, slam dunk case that Allen should be let go: 

 

2010: McNabb trade - we gave up far too much and the guy didn't even complete a full season

2012: RG3 trade up - the pick itself was defensible, but gutting the team's impact picks for the next 2 years was not

2017: Losing Cousins - it's possible they couldn't have retained him, but there's no reason to spend all that guaranteed money on him and let him walk for nothing 

2018: Extending Smith - again, the trade in and of itself wasn't horrible in my opinion, but the extension and Smith's performance were bad

 

That's a ****-ton of resources allocated to the position and, ironically, the only time we got above league-average output (outside of 2012) was when we just used a 4th round pick to draft Cousins. 

 

 

 

Three #1 picks.  Two #2 picks.  Two #3 picks.    Two #4 picks.    Tens of million dollars.  And it looks like we will be left with no QB from all of that.

 

One of the reasons why I hated the Alex Smith's trade was his age coupled with the last draft being a good one for QB -- Bruce Arians saying its the best Qb draft he's seen in over 20 years.   So to me the opportunity cost for actually getting a young QB and to add have some hope for the future by grooming a young QB was big.  As I said back then if you get a 34 year old QB, the rest of the roster better be really really good because if all you do is tread water with the same old same old 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 record, its not worth it.

 

Look at the Giants who tanked the season before killing us yesterday with Barkley.   Some other teams will crash in 2020 and end up with Tua and Fromm -- it wouldn't be us because the FO is fixated on how to stay in the 8-8 range.  

 

And my point isn't to downplay being competitive.  I like being competitive.  But I am tired of 8-8 now -- I'd gladly go 3-13 and take a step back to take a step forward.  Adding Alex like we did to me was the poster child trade of lets stay in the 8-8 range - so its why I hated the deal, then.  I hate it even more now.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

for some reason i can't post the results, Vinny now beating Bruce 65 to 35%

[allskinz]

24 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

The Raiders just fired their idiot yet here we are still twiddling our thumbs 👎

Hey Bruce, there's an opening for you bud.  Take the high road.

[TK]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Three #1 picks.  Two #2 picks.  Two #3 picks.    Two #4 picks.    Tens of million dollars.  And it looks like we will be left with no QB from all of that.

 

And Fuller. Which we clearly miss with Dunny on IR

[allskinz]

3 minutes ago, TK said:

And Fuller. Which we clearly miss with Dunny on IR

 The Kendall Fuller that sealed the win for the Chiefs over the Ravens yesterday?  Well Bruce determined him to be expendable.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, allskinz said:

 The Kendall Fuller that sealed the win for the Chiefs over the Ravens yesterday?  Well Bruce determined him to be expendable.

Yep, that one.  The same one that so many here believed was expendable because they believe in coaches more than players, and that we could just keep plugging guys in at the position.

[TK]

2 minutes ago, allskinz said:

 The Kendall Fuller that sealed the win for the Chiefs over the Ravens yesterday?  Well Bruce determined him to be expendable.

Exactly

[HardcoreZorn]

I don't know how you can say with a straight face the Smith injury wasn't a crushing blow to our season only worsened by losing our backup. What team would survive being on their 3rd QB? Not many, if at all.

 

That being said, it's time for a reset. The fan base has been lost. There absolutely needs to be some changes. Promote Schaeffer to team president. Promote Kyle Smith to GM. Let them lead the search for a new head coach. And for the love of god, do not make another rash decision to try and put people in the seats next year. Make decisions to put people in the seats 3 years from now. 5 years even. Continue to build the way we've been building. Good things will eventually happen. Maybe.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

17 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I disagree, I was SOOO against the trade. I was praying it was a rumor at the time, and its not even about what we gave up but its about the question of the need for it. And people have debated Smith's quality as a QB, but that's less of my concern. Its more about what else was available. Why not go after a FA QB? Why not go after a draft QB? Why not trade for a backup like AJ McCarron? There were so many options available at the time and this seemed like a rushed move. 

 

In my opinion it was kinda easy to get behind because like the other moves you mention here (minus losing the guy who had been here) it was a move for a big name QB that brought stability. The extension could be defended because it was probably the only way to get him to agree to the trade. But I just never wanted that trade. I'm never a fan of bringing in older players. 

 

No, I get it and obviously you were right. I'm not saying it was a good trade...in fact my words were "not horrible." The larger point was that without the extension the trade wouldn't have been a disaster. It would have been a one-year dip in QB production. Having said that, the extension may have been necessary to complete the trade. 

 

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I've made that case numerous times, only to be met with excuses from some of the fan base.  Right now this kind of stuff might get more traction.  However, it won't be long before those same folks start fictional tales about how the wheels only fell off due to bad luck with the Smith injury and all else here roster wise is rather swell.

 

I was someone who thought this might happen when Smith went down. I do believe Smith leading this offense CONTRIBUTED to the defense playing stronger. I will go to my grave believing that. They still would be regressed, but I believe it would have been BETTER. Still though, that doesn't mean the pre-injury situation was GOOD, just better. 

 

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Three #1 picks.  Two #2 picks.  Two #3 picks.    Two #4 picks.    Tens of million dollars.  And it looks like we will be left with no QB from all of that.

 

One of the reasons why I hated the Alex Smith's trade was his age coupled with the last draft being a good one for QB -- Bruce Arians saying its the best Qb draft he's seen in over 20 years.   So to me the opportunity cost for actually getting a young QB and to add have some hope for the future by grooming a young QB was big.  As I said back then if you get a 34 year old QB, the rest of the roster better be really really good because if all you do is tread water with the same old same old 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 record, its not worth it.

 

Look at the Giants who tanked the season before killing us yesterday with Barkley.   Some other teams will crash in 2020 and end up with Tua and Fromm -- it wouldn't be us because the FO is fixated on how to stay in the 8-8 range.  

 

And my point isn't to downplay being competitive.  I like being competitive.  But I am tired of 8-8 now -- I'd gladly go 3-13 and take a step back to take a step forward.  Adding Alex like we did to me was the poster child trade of lets stay in the 8-8 range - so its why I hated the deal, then.  I hate it even more now.

 

Good post!

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, TK said:

And Fuller. Which we clearly miss with Dunny on IR

 

I didn't really think of it this way until now.  Considering the top 4 rounds are by a mile your best shot to get NFL starters --the 5th-7th rounds are mostly depth guys.  But just to make it fair lets say a first round pick is the equivalent of all the lower round picks combined --5th through 7th.  With that in mind:

 

They essentially gave up two full drafts to land a QB.  And actually if anything a bit more than that when you consider Fuller.    And they are left with no one. 

 

The Eagles for example  got their franchise QB by moving up the draft but it cost them peanuts because of capital they got for Bradford.  The difference between having a dude who is known to be competent running the ship like Rose man versus having a laughingstock in Bruce. 

[The Sisko]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

for some reason i can't post the results, Vinny now beating Bruce 65 to 35%

I’ll take option 3, thanks - a potato. It’s got more brainpower than those two put together.🙄

[slinky]

so... no news is bad news huh.

 

#CutBruceLoose 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I don't know how you can say with a straight face the Smith injury wasn't a crushing blow to our season only worsened by losing our backup. What team would survive being on their 3rd QB? Not many, if at all.

 

 

I think those points mega relevant to Jay's job security not Bruce.

 

7 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

That being said, it's time for a reset. The fan base has been lost. There absolutely needs to be some changes. Promote Schaeffer to team president. Promote Kyle Smith to GM. Let them lead the search for a new head coach. And for the love of god, do not make another rash decision to try and put people in the seats next year. Make decisions to put people in the seats 3 years from now. 5 years even. Continue to build the way we've been building. Good things will eventually happen. Maybe.

 

Agree with this almost 100%.  Do it right, if you go 3-13 so be it.  No McNabb style trades.  Chill.  Build.  If the team sinks, you'll get for once one of the elite QBs in the draft where you aren't giving up the farm to get them where its not the end of the world if you get it wrong.  Personally I love Fromm and Tua so I don't think either will disappoint. 

 

 I think they stink at playing FA but as to where their roster is at now -- I wouldn't engage in FA much at all if the play is a rebuild.  But if Dan is trying to mastermind a roster in the 8-8 range and he can't get over that mindset then dude just go for it at that point in FA to at least try to take it a step further.   I don't think the fan base can handle these purgatory style seasons.

[Warhead36]

Allen is just as bad as Cerrato. He's just a more polished public speaker.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I was someone who thought this might happen when Smith went down. I do believe Smith leading this offense CONTRIBUTED to the defense playing stronger. I will go to my grave believing that. They still would be regressed, but I believe it would have been BETTER. Still though, that doesn't mean the pre-injury situation was GOOD, just better. 

I think Smith at QB with a healthy Oline and AP contributed to the defense playing better.  After Brandon and Shawn went down though, no dice.  The ability to play ball control died with the running game.  The running game died with the OL injuries.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think Smith at QB with a healthy Oline and AP contributed to the defense playing better.  After Brandon and Shawn went down though, no dice.  The ability to play ball control died with the running game.  The running game died with the OL injuries.

 

Fair enough

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think Smith at QB with a healthy Oline and AP contributed to the defense playing better.  After Brandon and Shawn went down though, no dice.  The ability to play ball control died with the running game.  The running game died with the OL injuries.

 

Fair enough

[FrFan]

McKenzie - Allen Trading places

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I don't know how you can say with a straight face the Smith injury wasn't a crushing blow to our season only worsened by losing our backup. What team would survive being on their 3rd QB? Not many, if at all.

Obviously starting Mark Sanchez because QB1 and QB2 broke their legs, and QB3 didn't exist, are crushing blows.  However the more crushing blow was the loss of the Olinemen that impacted all of those guys by killing the running game.  I think with both Alex and McCoy, all things staying the same, we probably don't lose in the epic fashion we just did, but lose nonetheless.

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Allen is just as bad as Cerrato. He's just a more polished public speaker.

Eh, I used to think that.  But he's put his foot in his mouth on numerous occasions as well.  I wonder if he still believes that all positions including his own should be judged by their W-L record.

[Skinsinparadise]

Russell sticking his neck out that Jon Gruden doesn't care anymore for Bruce.  Paulsen said he has a source saying the same thing.  Hopefully they are both wrong.