Makaveli

The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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6 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Because Dan totally knows how to identify winners.  Eesh.

 

It's funny how some in the media give him the props of hey at least the Redskins under Bruce don't overpay anymore for FAs.  If you told me when Vinny was canned he would be replaced by a guy who would have an even worse losing record -- but at least the FA failings aren't as spectacular -- I wouldn't naturally say sign me up.

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's funny how some in the media give him the props of hey at least the Redskins under Bruce don't overpay anymore for FAs.  If you told me when Vinny was canned he would be replaced by a guy who would have an even worse losing record -- but at least the FA failings aren't as spectacular -- I wouldn't naturally say sign me up.

 

I agree 100%. But there is a potential upside. When Bruce finally gets' shown the door the replacement should not be in CAP hell like they were after Vinny. And they should have most if not all their draft picks.  The problem of course is that I am sure danny boy will find a way to get an even worse replacement. 

 

BTW: Don't kill the prognosticating messenger - but you heard it here first - Doug Williams will be the next HC of the Washington Redskins. Might even be in 2018. That would be such a danny move. 

Edited by goskins10
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11 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Revisionist history is too easy and it is totally unfair.   You can always find players the best personnel men in history passed on.  The fact remains most of the best players on this team were acquired by Shannahan.  .  

 

Well to be fair, I didn't revise anything. Yes it's easy to use hindsight, but looking back on that draft, and the majority of Shanahan's/Allen's draft classes, they aren't great, at least in my opinion. The problem is that even though he could find the big players (Williams, Cousins, Reed when healthy, etc.) he wasn't able to build a deep roster via the draft and FA. The middle to tail-end of the roster is just as important.

 

And yes, even the great personnel men miss on players. McCloughan drafted Smith over Rodgers.

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Doesn't matter what Bruce does. Fans don't want him. 

 

Doesn't matter that he has the team in a good spot Salary cap wise unlike 10 years ago. 

 

Doesn't matter that this offseason was one of his best ones showing progression.

 

Doesn't matter that the Redskins front office isn't set up traditionally and stated not one person has final say, they make a joint decision. 

 

Fans will always hate Bruce for his past transgressions and rightfully so. But I believe people can get better at their jobs. Similar to how fans treat rookies. If you're not the best at something the minute you represent the Redskins. You must suck and you will never get better. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, William Barbour said:

Doesn't matter what Bruce does. Fans don't want him. 

 

Doesn't matter that he has the team in a good spot Salary cap wise unlike 10 years ago. 

 

Doesn't matter that this offseason was one of his best ones showing progression.

 

Doesn't matter that the Redskins front office isn't set up traditionally and stated not one person has final say, they make a joint decision. 

 

Fans will always hate Bruce for his past transgressions and rightfully so. But I believe people can get better at their jobs. Similar to how fans treat rookies. If you're not the best at something the minute you represent the Redskins. You must suck and you will never get better. 

 

 

Nobody said that Bruce literally sucks at everything.  I guess you could say it's progress that the team followed Scot's plan for the good offseason.  But that progress came to a screeching halt the moment they instituted this joint effort and gave Doug a new title.

 

I don't have all night to list all the bad things about him...

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20 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Nobody said that Bruce literally sucks at everything.

 

Bruce literally sucks at everything. 

 

Except sucking. He's awesome at sucking. 

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It should be clear to Bruce how the fans feel, I was recently in the tunnel before a game and all the fans that has the tunnel passes broke out into a chorus of boos as he walked by.  They did not Boo Snyder or anyone else, just Bruce.  He laughed it off, but he certainly heard it.

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At some point if fans get energized and organized -- like the letter campaign done here years ago aimed at Vinny.  I took part in it then. It might have an impact.   I know that would be aiming at Igor and not the bigger problem.  But its a start. 

 

Consider the source himself:

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2017/03/10/vinny-cerrato-dan-snyder-doesnt-answer-to-bruce-allen/

 

WASHINGTON — If the Redskins’ history, after their latest meltdown in Ashburn which resulted in General Manager Scot McCloughan’s firing, is any indicator of what’s to come, then team president Bruce Allen could be next to go, said former executive Vinny Cerrato.

 

Cerrato should know, having previously served two terms as Redskins owner Dan Snyder’s right-hand man.

“If getting rid of Bruce Allen takes away the negative publicity, it would not shock me,” Cerrato, the former vice president of football operations, said Friday during his show on Baltimore’s 105.7 The Fan, according to The Washington Post.

 

“A lot of the reason why I got fired, there was a lot of negative stuff going on,” Cerrato added, also according to The Post, of his 2009 and final departure from the organization.

Cerrato shared similar thoughts with Chad Dukes on 106.7 The Fan on Friday.

 

“I think, if it starts hitting you in the pocketbook, and fans start not wanting to go [renew] their season tickets and all that, because of Bruce Allen, and if it becomes easier to get rid of Bruce Allen; if the headache goes away if Bruce Allen goes away, I could see the owners eventually — if it becomes that big of an issue — I could see them separating themselves from Bruce Allen,” Cerrato told Dukes.

 

“If his name wasn’t ‘Allen,’ it may have already occurred,” he said.

Despite the current image, Allen and Snyder won’t forever be a package deal, Cerrato suggested, if the relationship between the organization and its fans sours to the point that Snyder again becomes the target of public scrutiny.

 

“One thing is, Bruce Allen’s not an owner,” Cerrato observed. “Dan doesn’t answer to Bruce Allen. Bruce Allen answers to Dan, Dwight [Schar], Bob [Rothman], and Dan’s mom and sister. That’s who he answers to. You know, I was very close with the family and everything else. And if the media’s gonna go after Dan and everything, and getting Bruce out of there eliminates all that, I can see Bruce being gone eventually.”

 

Asked how often public blowback is taken into account while weighing the future direction of the franchise, Cerrato wagered, “I think quite a bit. I mean, that’s your fan base. Those are the people that are buying the tickets and everything.”

“And when people aren’t showing up, and people are cancelling tickets, they’re telling you something,” he said. “They’re giving you their opinion. If it’s that much, and [president of business operations] Dennis Greene can’t sell suites and all those things, then it becomes a big issue.”

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Nobody said that Bruce literally sucks at everything.  I guess you could say it's progress that the team followed Scot's plan for the good offseason.  But that progress came to a screeching halt the moment they instituted this joint effort and gave Doug a new title.

 

I don't have all night to list all the bad things about him...

 

That's innacurate. 

 

2014 Draft was solid pre-Scot. 2017 Draft from what we've seen has been solid post Scot. 

 

Fans forget that the SAME scout team and Scott Campbell were here before Scot and still here after Scot. Redskins are not the only team to fire Scot. 

 

The Free Agent acquisitions have been solid this offseason. Some didn't work out, but we didn't break the bank on any total whiffs. Maybe I'm naive, but I've seen this FO make improvements since the 2014 season. They've filled the team with a great bunch of Red Chip quality players and have weeded out the junk that affected the culture. It's also not out of the realm of possibilities that Scots presence here for the short term hit a light switch on some of these guys in the FO and they said...

 

"Oh, that's how it's done"

 

I know that visual representation has always been an effective learning tool.

 

This offseason will be full of drama by the media over the Kirk thing. There is no good way to handle the situation. I'm sure they will paint the picture to fair weather fans that sky is falling and yadda yadda. Fans will get their torches and pitchforks and scream for Snyder and Bruce's head like every year. This thread is a prime example,  you have fans wanting to start petitions to get the guy fired. Ignoring the past 3 years because they fired a guy who couldn't get control of his illness and went MIA for 2 weeks before the biggest event of the year for a front office. 

 

I'm not bashing Scot, I loved the guy. He's a great football mind and person, but he's got serious issues and he was the "leader" of several men in the Front office. People looked up to him for guidance. 

 

But all fans see is... "Aahaaaaa DAMN Bruce FIRED OUR ONLY TRUE GM EVERRRRR"

 

I'm just hoping the franchise can ignore the noise and continue the course they've set. 

Edited by William Barbour
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22 minutes ago, William Barbour said:

 

I'm not bashing Scot, I loved the guy. He's a great football mind and person, but he's got serious issues and he was the "leader" of several men in the Front office. People looked up to him for guidance. 

 

But all fans see is... "Aahaaaaa DAMN Bruce FIRED OUR ONLY TRUE GM EVERRRRR"

 

That's only if you believe what the "anonymous team official" had to say.  Until this grievance issue works itself out and we get the nitty gritty, I'm not led to believe that his "issues" were the primary reason for his termination, just the convenient one. Bruce initially told us all that Scot was running the show, which we in turn found out was a lie.

 

There is plenty of information out there on just how swell of a guy Bruce Allen is.  Monk4thahall has been so gracious enough to share it with us.  It's worth checking out.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
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In England if your manager or owner are doing really bad the whole crown sing, We want(whoever it may be) out. For the last 2 home games all the Redskins fans should stand up in unison and sing we want Allen out for as long as they can.

 

Altogether now

 

We want Allen out

We want Allen out 

 

HTTR 

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12 hours ago, William Barbour said:

Doesn't matter what Bruce does. Fans don't want him. 

Yes, harvestfest is a team necessity

 

Doesn't matter that he has the team in a good spot Salary cap wise unlike 10 years ago. 

That is because he has a long history of not wanting to pay the good veteran players who deserve a raise.

when the team FINALLY found a QB who had good potential, Bruce turned his back on him by refusing to give him a contract; now the team is on the edge of a cliff and the ground is soft.

 

Doesn't matter that this offseason was one of his best ones showing progression.

Yes, letting the team's top 2 WRs sign with other teams and bringing in a bum like Pryor. Worked out well.

 

Doesn't matter that the Redskins front office isn't set up traditionally and stated not one person has final say, they make a joint decision. 

People are given a job/put in a position to do a job they are either not familiar with or not their strong suit. Doug Williams is clueless. Bruce Allen simply loves control; he's a control freak, riding the coattails of his father.

 

Fans will always hate Bruce for his past transgressions and rightfully so. But I believe people can get better at their jobs. Similar to how fans treat rookies. If you're not the best at something the minute you represent the Redskins. You must suck and you will never get better. 

Oakland Raiders and Tampa Bay Buccaneers have a much different perspective than you do. Oh, and the people in the Arizona realty he screwed over aren't sending him Christmas cards either.

 

 

 If you want to stand by Bruce, that's your prerogative, but to say he's done a good job is just not true.

He THINKS he knows what he's doing, but he doesn't; he's just an asshole with an extreme control personality.

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12 hours ago, William Barbour said:

Doesn't matter that he has the team in a good spot Salary cap wise unlike 10 years ago.

"I-4 Off Ramp" ! He and Jerruh just gave Mara an irresistible oportunity to screw us, while other GM who could have seeking benefit from this decided to stay put.

"The League had "advised" all franchises to not explicitly use the 2010 uncapped season as a method to create cap room in the future when the salary cap returned. Allen and Shanahan failed to heed the warnings of the league and used the "I-4 off Ramp" on two overpaid players signed by the former regime. As a result, Washington would suffer a $36 million salary cap penalty split between the 2012 and 2013 seasons." link

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4 hours ago, markmills67 said:

In England if your manager or owner are doing really bad the whole crown sing, We want(whoever it may be) out. For the last 2 home games all the Redskins fans should stand up in unison and sing we want Allen out for as long as they can.

 

Altogether now

 

We want Allen out

We want Allen out 

 

HTTR 

 

I am a Premier league fan, LFC.  Can you imagine that here?   If it did happen, I think he's gone.  Unless they are so deep in the stadium deal that Bruce's security is in place until that goes down.  Yeah I do think if people flood Redskins Park with Bruce has to go, it ultimately happens.

 

Chris Russell was talking about Bruce yesterday.  In the past, he seemed to believe that Bruce was entrenched.  Yesterday, he switched gears.  He thinks he might be gone post 2018 season.  His theory is Bruce is the dude leading the misfit negotiations with Kirk and is cool with letting him go -- when Kirk leaves and it blows up in the team's face, Bruce will be the legitimate fall guy for it and he would get canned then.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am a Premier league fan, LFC.  Can you imagine that here?   If it did happen, I think he's gone.  Unless they are so deep in the stadium deal that Bruce's security is in place until that goes down.  Yeah I do think if people flood Redskins Park with Bruce has to go, it ultimately happens.

 

Chris Russell was talking about Bruce yesterday.  In the past, he seemed to believe that Bruce was entrenched.  Yesterday, he switched gears.  He thinks he might be gone post 2018 season.  His theory is Bruce is the dude leading the misfit negotiations with Kirk and is cool with letting him go -- when Kirk leaves and it blows up in the team's face, Bruce will be the legitimate fall guy for it and he would get canned then.  

As a Bolton fan we obviously make more noise than you here at the Macron stadium ???but it needs to be done. The only way I would let him stay is if after the final game Snyder take him on his private plane and Allen gets cousin's to sign a LTD before the plane lands in DC.

 

HTTR 

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5 hours ago, markmills67 said:

In England if your manager or owner are doing really bad the whole crown sing, We want(whoever it may be) out. For the last 2 home games all the Redskins fans should stand up in unison and sing we want Allen out for as long as they can.

 

Altogether now

 

We want Allen out

We want Allen out 

 

HTTR 

When the stadium is almost completely empty on christmas eve... Snyder will hear it, what he does is anyone's guess... but he'll hear it. 

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13 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

Bruce literally sucks at everything. 

 

Except sucking. He's awesome at sucking. 

Post of the year.

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10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

That's only if you believe what the "anonymous team official" had to say.  Until this grievance issue works itself out and we get the nitty gritty, I'm not led to believe that his "issues" were the primary reason for his termination, just the convenient one. Bruce initially told us all that Scot was running the show, which we in turn found out was a lie.

 

There is plenty of information out there on just how swell of a guy Bruce Allen is.  Monk4thahall has been so gracious enough to share it with us.  It's worth checking out.

 

No, it was reported for weeks that Scot hadn't been seen at Redskins park

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3 hours ago, skins island connection said:

Bruce Allen simply loves control; he's a control freak, riding the coattails of his father.

Or he's just taking revenge against the skins for not having enough time with his dad when he was young because of the redskins...

Theories are not missing here :D

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am a Premier league fan, LFC.  Can you imagine that here?   If it did happen, I think he's gone.  Unless they are so deep in the stadium deal that Bruce's security is in place until that goes down.  Yeah I do think if people flood Redskins Park with Bruce has to go, it ultimately happens.

 

Chris Russell was talking about Bruce yesterday.  In the past, he seemed to believe that Bruce was entrenched.  Yesterday, he switched gears.  He thinks he might be gone post 2018 season.  His theory is Bruce is the dude leading the misfit negotiations with Kirk and is cool with letting him go -- when Kirk leaves and it blows up in the team's face, Bruce will be the legitimate fall guy for it and he would get canned then.  

Well if Kirk leaves, Bruce won't have anybody to blame but himself. He could play the 'Kirk Cousins is an asshole that didn't want to be here' but it will be a longshot. I don't think Jay would be the one riding Kirk out of town. And putting the blame on Doug Williams won't work either as I believe Dan's a bigger fan of Doug Williams than a Bruce's fan...

 

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

As a Bolton fan we obviously make more noise than you here at the Macron stadium

Didn't know our President owned a stadium in Bolton...

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Looks like ol Brucie finally revealed his ES account. :ols: 

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39 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Wow, now that is amazing. 

 

William Barbour "Guzzler of Koolaid" :headbang:

:rofl89:

 

Not sure that is a fair statement. Please hear me out. While I am firmly in the - I would much prefer Bruce be gone, and I mean like today - barbour makes some good points. Ponder this while reading the rest - if you are so inclined to read the rest - if not maybe ponder this anyway: If Bruce has a good off-season this year (I will define good in a moment), would you assessment of him change? For me success quite frankly is primarily tied to Kirk Cousins and a LTD. If he can get that done even after all the buffoonery to this point and get Zach Brown and maybe a few other key players signed and still have a few $s for FAs, I would have to reassess. 

 

A few things from my perspective - 1. I am virtually certain Bruce cannot get this done. I believe his ego at this point and some misplaced sense of protecting Dan's money (at least in this case), will prevent him from getting a deal done. After that, it's anyone's guess if he can get the others done. 2. It will not change my mind in terms of wanting a true GM - yes even if he does well. While it may work short term, this FO model is set up for failure. 3. It will not change my mind on how badly he messed this thing up with Kirk this year, I was on board with him until he did not get a deal done and let Kirk play on the tag. We can play the :Well Kirk was never signing anything" game. But I have a really hard time believing if given a truly competitive offer Kirk turns it down. 

 

 

12 hours ago, William Barbour said:

 

That's innacurate. 

 

2014 Draft was solid pre-Scot. 2017 Draft from what we've seen has been solid post Scot. 

 

Fans forget that the SAME scout team and Scott Campbell were here before Scot and still here after Scot. Redskins are not the only team to fire Scot. 

 

The Free Agent acquisitions have been solid this offseason. Some didn't work out, but we didn't break the bank on any total whiffs. Maybe I'm naive, but I've seen this FO make improvements since the 2014 season. They've filled the team with a great bunch of Red Chip quality players and have weeded out the junk that affected the culture. It's also not out of the realm of possibilities that Scots presence here for the short term hit a light switch on some of these guys in the FO and they said...

 

"Oh, that's how it's done"

 

I know that visual representation has always been an effective learning tool.

 

This offseason will be full of drama by the media over the Kirk thing. There is no good way to handle the situation. I'm sure they will paint the picture to fair weather fans that sky is falling and yadda yadda. Fans will get their torches and pitchforks and scream for Snyder and Bruce's head like every year. This thread is a prime example,  you have fans wanting to start petitions to get the guy fired. Ignoring the past 3 years because they fired a guy who couldn't get control of his illness and went MIA for 2 weeks before the biggest event of the year for a front office. 

 

I'm not bashing Scot, I loved the guy. He's a great football mind and person, but he's got serious issues and he was the "leader" of several men in the Front office. People looked up to him for guidance. 

 

But all fans see is... "Aahaaaaa DAMN Bruce FIRED OUR ONLY TRUE GM EVERRRRR"

 

I'm just hoping the franchise can ignore the noise and continue the course they've set. 

 

 

Ok, now to you...  :-)  

 

I think you are exaggerating the first line. Winning cures everything. If he gets some wins under his belt, with or without Kirk (although I happen to believe that at least for 2018 winning without Kirk will be exponentially more difficult), I believe many people - including myself would move more to a "well Bruce is not my favorite guy and he ****ed up the Kirk things, but the team is stronger and is winning. 

 

I agree the 2014 draft was at the very least solid and have posted that well before now. I will also agree that at least for now the 2017 draft also looks solid. Unlike some, while I can see Scot's finger prints on the board, these drafts are way too volatile to give anyone too much credit who was not in the room. 

 

However, there are other problems with Bruce - and to be fair this could be a Danny thing - but he just does not handle things in a professional manner. Look at Scot. Yes, there were reports he was a no show. However, we also know he was sent home by the team. Was it because he was drinking again? I don;t know. But i know they gave too many details that tried to make them look good. I would have preferred something more like - we have separated and we wish Scot the best. The end. Instead all kinds of bull**** leaked out trying to discredit Scot. 

 

And the whole publicity stunt with Kirk right after they failed to sign him - it was like - "Hey it's not my fault!". I would have much preferred something more like - we tried but were unsuccessful. We look forward to a great year and hope to give it a better try next off-season as we see Kirk Cousins as the future of this franchise. But no, they have to assign blame. 

 

I could go on but I am sure you are well read enough about the Redskins that i don't need to. I have to reiterate that I just do not like this FO arrangement and I think that is what has most people pissed at Bruce. It's a power grab by a guy who does know how to evaluate players. 

 

But fair enough, let's see how it goes in the next 8 to 10 months. 

 

 

 

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