General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[dfitzo53]

13 hours ago, Gamebreaker said:

 

This has nothing to do with video games. We've had way too many mass shootings already that had nothing to do with video games. 

 

The tournament was a for a football game, not a violent shooter. One of the players there said the shooter was acting weird all weekend, wore the same clothes on the second day of the tourney that he wore on the first day, wore shades the whole time and wouldn't speak to people. This was premeditated and at least one of the two victims killed seem to be targeted. 

Two quick thoughts. 

 

1) Studies have associated violent video game use with anti-social characteristics like reduced empathy for other people. 

 

2) On the other hand, violent video games are popular around the world, and we continue to be the only nation with this frequency of random gun violence. 

[Zguy28]

1 minute ago, dfitzo53 said:

Two quick thoughts. 

 

1) Studies have associated violent video game use with anti-social characteristics like reduced empathy for other people. 

 

2) On the other hand, violent video games are popular around the world, and we continue to be the only nation with this frequency of random gun violence. 

Its like a (Molotov?) ****tail of gun access and violent ideas.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

22 minutes ago, Bang said:

There really isn't any way to mitigate it..  how do you stop kids from playing games?

You can't. We definitely have problems to which there is no real answer. Can't ban games, can't reasonably stop kids from getting games they shouldn't play (I was able to get beer at age 13 by getting someone else to buy it.) and we can't reasonably expect parents to be able to handle the problem either..   unfortunately 24/7 supervision is simply not possible. 

 

~bang

 

I want to nitpick a little on the parenting/24-7 supervision item.

 

First off, I don't think I have a great answer and I agree that constant supervision isn't possible. But allowing your child to immersed in video games is controllable. Sure, I can't prevent my son from playing games he shouldn't play when he visits a friend. But I can be damn sure he isn't playing them under my roof and/or for hours on end. That's not a solution to prevent exposure to something, but it definitely helps prevent a child from immersing himself into a world and potentially losing track of what's real and what's not. 

[Mr. Sinister]

10 minutes ago, dfitzo53 said:

Two quick thoughts. 

 

1) Studies have associated violent video game use with anti-social characteristics like reduced empathy for other people. 

 

2) On the other hand, violent video games are popular around the world, and we continue to be the only nation with this frequency of random gun violence. 

 

I think if you analyze the life of the stereotypical hardcore gamer (those that spend an absurd amount of time playing video games, and are often isolated for extended periods of times), it overlaps with the common theme of mental health (the games don't even have to really be incredibly violent).

 

That is unless these studies show that, in a non isolation setting, and shorter, regulated playing times, as well as shorter number of days playing, that the results are no different.

[dfitzo53]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

I think if you analyze the life of the stereotypical hardcore gamer (those that spend an absurd amount of time playing video games, and are often isolated for extended periods of times), it overlaps with the common theme of mental health (the games don't even have to really be incredibly violent).

 

That is unless these studies show that, in a non isolation setting, and shorter, regulated playing times, as well as shorter number of days playing, that the results are no different.

If I get some time I will try to dig up some of the studies. 

[LD0506]

[Bang]

41 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I want to nitpick a little on the parenting/24-7 supervision item.

 

First off, I don't think I have a great answer and I agree that constant supervision isn't possible. But allowing your child to immersed in video games is controllable. Sure, I can't prevent my son from playing games he shouldn't play when he visits a friend. But I can be damn sure he isn't playing them under my roof and/or for hours on end. That's not a solution to prevent exposure to something, but it definitely helps prevent a child from immersing himself into a world and potentially losing track of what's real and what's not. 

Mostly what i meant by that is that in most houses both parents have to work..   if it's a single parent household, forget it,, there simply isn't any way to supervise your kids as much as you could in a perfect situation. 

Once you get home you can definitely take control. But it's just not as easy as all that to try to be a parent and keep them fed, clothed and sheltered. Circumstances prevent it in many homes.

Most of the trouble i got into as a kid was because i was left to be a latchkey kid. My mom had to work, and couldn't stop me from doing any of the things i did.

 

~Bang

Edited August 28, 2018 by Bang

[TD_washingtonredskins]

18 minutes ago, Bang said:

Mostly what i meant by that is that in most houses both parents have to work..   if it's a single parent household, forget it,, there simply isn't any way to supervise your kids as much as you could in a perfect situation. 

Once you get home you can definitely take control. But it's just not as easy as all that to try to be a parent and keep them fed, clothed and sheltered. Circumstances prevent it in many homes.

Most of the trouble i got into as a kid was because i was left to be a latchkey kid. My mom had to work, and couldn't stop me from doing any of the things i did.

 

~Bang

 

No, you're right. But there are things that can be done...and I'm not trying to get on a soap box because I have two kids (11 and 9) and understand they have a mind of their own. 

 

You can set limits that homework/chores should be done first until you get home. If they aren't going to listen to you then you can disconnect the games when you're not around. You can arrange some sort of supervision in your absence. Again, how extreme your measures as a parent probably depends on how well your child listens, how much time you are gone, and what your tolerance is for video games/any habit. And again, I'm talking about setting rules or limits so that it's not some immersion thing. I'm not saying that any parent can prevent a kid from sneaking in an hour of Madden. But, most parents, even from afar, can prevent a kid from gaming for 3-4 hours per day. 

 

I will be honest with you, I don't like it when my son plays video games. I understand why he enjoys them (I did at his age) and I realize there's nothing fundamentally wrong with them. But, I don't like the "opportunity cost" of video games. Every hour he's doing that in a week, he isn't doing something that is slightly healthier or somewhat productive. 

 

Edit: Best analogy I can come up with....When I was in middle school/high school kids enjoyed sneaking out to meet up. So, no matter what a parent did, if a child was adamant about sneaking out one night they could probably get away with it. What can you really do short of bars? But, if my kid was one who snuck out 3 times per week, maybe there's something wrong there with my tactics...immersion vs. exposure. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by TD_washingtonredskins

[Llevron]

I would be very interested to see any data showing the correlation between violent games and mass shootings, if there is any. I cant rightfully say that games dont desensitize these kids. It has never had an effect that I could measure on myself or anyone I know to my knowledge, but completely ignoring it as a possible solution would be akin to people saying that guns aint the problem, people are. So, I would like to see the data. 

 

Edit: About the supervision part. There are tools to be used here. Most of these newer systems that are ultra realistic have parental controls where you can lock down certain games and whatnot. People need to use them. Just like anything you can abuse a function or use it correctly. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Llevron

[TD_washingtonredskins]

13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I would be very interested to see any data showing the correlation between violent games and mass shootings, if there is any. I cant rightfully say that games dont desensitize these kids. It has never had an effect that I could measure on myself or anyone I know to my knowledge, but completely ignoring it as a possible solution would be akin to people saying that guns aint the problem, people are. So, I would like to see the data. 

 

Edit: About the supervision part. There are tools to be used here. Most of these newer systems that are ultra realistic have parental controls where you can lock down certain games and whatnot. People need to use them. Just like anything you can abuse a function or use it correctly. 

 

That's where I'm at. If it were ever possible to definitively determine a correlation, I'd be shocked to find out that violent games don't contribute. Having said that, it's just my feel on it and I'm very sure that I'm no expert. Also, since we can never see how the very same person is impacted by immersion in these games and no immersion in these games...I'm not sure how we'd ever really know. 

 

It's just hard for me to wrap my feeble brain around the idea that hours of violent killing doesn't somehow seep into the psyche of certain people (who may be more susceptible based on other factors). I'm also open to the idea that these games DO trigger kids, but even if they didn't play these games something else might trigger them later. So I don't want to come off as a "video games are destroying society" guy. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by TD_washingtonredskins

[RansomthePasserby]

2 hours ago, Llevron said:

I would be very interested to see any data showing the correlation between violent games and mass shootings, if there is any. I cant rightfully say that games dont desensitize these kids. It has never had an effect that I could measure on myself or anyone I know to my knowledge, but completely ignoring it as a possible solution would be akin to people saying that guns aint the problem, people are. So, I would like to see the data. 

 

Someone should do a study, and drill down farther than just “do games correlate with violence in real life.” I’d be interested to see if *how* the games are played has an effect.

 

For example...

 

- Would there be a difference between people who play games where you are as a soldier or SWAT team member fighting “bad guys” and people who play as hit men and criminals?

 

- In games where you have the choice to killl civilians/innocent bystanders, would there be a difference between players who take care to spare the civilians vs. players who kill indiscriminately?

 

- In games that track your morality, would there be a difference between people who chose to play as a “good” character vs. people who chose to play as an “evil” character?

 

EDIT: I saw on a friend’s Facebook post that the gunman was a Ravens fan... huh. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by RansomthePasserby

[China]

9 hours ago, dfitzo53 said:

If I get some time I will try to dig up some of the studies. 

 

Someone has done it for you.  Various studies are linked in this article:

 

No, Video Games Did Not Cause The Jacksonville Shooting, And They Do Not Inspire Violence

 

Quote

The idea that gaming causes aggression to the point of murderous intent has has yielded little evidence. Studies from The American Psychological Association and the American Academy of Pediatricsboth claimed that research suggests so.

However, more thorough research finds the exact opposite. These studies include:

• A study by sociologist Whitney DeCamp and psychologist Christopher Ferguson of Western Michigan University.
• A study by Dr. Andy Przybylski, from Oxford University’s Oxford Internet Institute.
• A study by Dr David Zendle at the University of York.
• A study by Dr. Gregor Szycik of the Hannover Medical School

These studies all pointed to video games being a non-factor in the buildup of aggression among gamers. In fact, a common reoccurring theme from studies is that gaming actually reduced aggression in males.

As DeCamp notes, previous studies that find links tend to be less comprehensive and do not account for the fact that violent children who play violent video games were predisposed toward violence before they ever picked up a controller. The real responsibility for many of the violent children’s tendencies begins with home life.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[dfitzo53]

16 minutes ago, China said:

 

Someone has done it for you.  Various studies are linked in this article:

 

No, Video Games Did Not Cause The Jacksonville Shooting, And They Do Not Inspire Violence

 

 

Click on the link for the full article

Cool thanks. I'm going to read that article and then do a little digging, probably tomorrow.

 

But as I mentioned in my earlier post, I don't buy it (violent video gaming) as a sufficient explanation either. 

[visionary]

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I'm certainly not a scientist, but those studies appear to have tried to find a link between video games and aggression. That's a start, but certainly isn't the only factor. I don't think that aggression or violence is the only thing to measure. What about being de-sensitized because you watch 100 people get shot in a day? What about the isolation and detachment? There could be an already-violent person who becomes less aware (subconciously, of course) of any repercussions of his actions. 

 

Edit: One more note on this and how I think violent games (any violent content in excess really) might contribute...

 

When I binge watch shows, I notice subtle things that I pick up from them and start to subconsciously do in my life. I non-voluntarily begin to emulate things from those shows. Like I said, it's more so when I binge something rather than watch it for an hour per week. It might be speech patterns or phrases...anything. 

 

Why is it such a stretch to think that a younger, more impressionable individual who is also maybe wired a little differently and predisposed to influences would spend hours virtually shooting 100 people per night on his game and not have something seep into his psyche or subconscious? 

Edited August 31, 2018 by TD_washingtonredskins

[Cooked Crack]

 

[visionary]

 

[dfitzo53]

Didn't mean to drop the ball on this.

 

From what I can tell, the APA and other similar groups maintain that there is a significant correlation between violent video games and "aggressive behavior" of some kind, citing a broad survey of hundreds of studies.  Other studies show no correlation or even a contradictory one, as China pointed out.

 

NPR had an interview with a researcher who said that yes, there is a correlation, but it's small.  His way of putting it was, if we magically made violent video games disappear, there would likely be a small decrease in mass shootings, but it would be less than we would get it we could, say, magically give every kid two parents and a healthy home life.

[AsburySkinsFan]

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On 9/2/2018 at 10:23 PM, dfitzo53 said:

Didn't mean to drop the ball on this.

 

From what I can tell, the APA and other similar groups maintain that there is a significant correlation between violent video games and "aggressive behavior" of some kind, citing a broad survey of hundreds of studies.  Other studies show no correlation or even a contradictory one, as China pointed out.

 

NPR had an interview with a researcher who said that yes, there is a correlation, but it's small.  His way of putting it was, if we magically made violent video games disappear, there would likely be a small decrease in mass shootings, but it would be less than we would get it we could, say, magically give every kid two parents and a healthy home life.

 

Well, one is something you CAN legislate and the other is not. Having said that, violent video games shouldn't be banned or anything...I think it's more on the parents of children to be more aware of what they are playing. Since 99% of gamers can play COD without losing touch with real life, it shouldn't be unavailable to everyone. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

5 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Well, one is something you CAN legislate and the other is not. Having said that, violent video games shouldn't be banned or anything...I think it's more on the parents of children to be more aware of what they are playing. Since 99% of gamers can play COD without losing touch with real life, it shouldn't be unavailable to everyone. 

99%???

Why so low?

That’s a HUGE number 3,250,000 Americans. I’ll assume though that the 99% was rhetorical.

[zoony]

On 9/2/2018 at 10:23 PM, dfitzo53 said:

Didn't mean to drop the ball on this.

 

From what I can tell, the APA and other similar groups maintain that there is a significant correlation between violent video games and "aggressive behavior" of some kind, citing a broad survey of hundreds of studies.  Other studies show no correlation or even a contradictory one, as China pointed out.

 

NPR had an interview with a researcher who said that yes, there is a correlation, but it's small.  His way of putting it was, if we magically made violent video games disappear, there would likely be a small decrease in mass shootings, but it would be less than we would get it we could, say, magically give every kid two parents and a healthy home life.

 

My own theory is that there is no magic bullet, or single cause.  But that its a combination

 

That said, with regard to video games, desensitization is a very real thing with a copious amount of research behind it.  It cannot be denied in any objective way.  Where the issue comes in is whether these games cause mass shootings... and i think the overwhelming answer and data point to NO.  However do they play a part in certain cases?  Probably, yes, when combined with other factors.

 

The other interesting (or terrifying) aspect of these shootings is the involvement of psychotropic drugs.  I have read that virtually every mass shooting has involved the use of these drugs.

 

I dont know, constantly playing video games that desensitize one to murder while taking pills that numb feelings is probably not a good combination for someone who is prone to self harm, harming others, or has shown problems with violence and aggression.

 

I also think there is a STRONG attention component in these shootings that the media plays into unfortunately.  We probably shouldnt limit the first ammendment though

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

50 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

99%???

Why so low?

That’s a HUGE number 3,250,000 Americans. I’ll assume though that the 99% was rhetorical.

 

I don't follow. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

53 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't follow. 

Using your 99% that would result in 3,250,000 Americans who play video games not being able to differentiate between COD and reality. That number seems incredibly high, so I am assuming the 99% was a rhetorical number rather than an actual estimate.

Edited September 6, 2018 by AsburySkinsFan

[TD_washingtonredskins]

31 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Using your 99% that would result in 3,250,000 Americans who play video games not being able to differentiate between COD and reality. That number seems incredibly high, so I am assuming the 99% was a rhetorical number rather than an actual estimate.

 

Oh, got it. Yeah...I meant it to reflect the opposite (that a very small number of people would struggle with delineating between the game and real life), my apologies.

 

But, for the record, I would also bet that not all Americans (325M) are gamers. Looks like an estimated 150M people have played video games...so my 99% number would mean that 1-2M people may have trouble differentiating. Still seems high, but I also bet that all 150M aren't actual 4-hours-per-day gamers either. 

 

Anyway - we agree

Edited September 6, 2018 by TD_washingtonredskins