Nazis showing up at places uninvited.

[Llevron]

I'm not saying I want this dude to live. Just that in general I'm not a fan of killing people... depending on circumstances. 

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I'm not saying I want this dude to live. Just that in general I'm not a fan of killing people... depending on circumstances. 

In all fairness, its not a decision to be taken lightly.  One of the biggest aspects of this conversation is the difference between the people who can make those calls and how the society as a whole feels on this topic.  They are not on the same page from my observation.  I have a love/hate relationship with the word "pragmatic" based on my own personal experience.

[volsmet]

35 minutes ago, Llevron said:

I'm not saying I want this dude to live. Just that in general I'm not a fan of killing people... depending on circumstances. 

 

I don’t think the government should kill anyone, in any country, without a declaration of war - I’m a bit more flexible on such matters for private citizens, sometimes a life needs to be taken, I’m a Dexterologist.

 

 

 

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Nah, not him. That guy is a **** and a coward.

 

Cowardice is the binding force between all hate groups. 

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

This is exactly the type of case where I want the death penalty.  There is ZERO doubt that he committed the crime.  No need for twelve appeals to make sure he is really guilty.  And since he didnt worry about making sure the death he caused was done humanly, I feel no need in this case to do it for him.  Take him out back and give him a large caliber hollow point to the forehead.

 

Then send a bill for the bullet to the group that organized the march.

 

Too often zero doubt has been proven flawed. We lock up enough innocent people, we (our government) can’t risk killing one, there is no more sociopathic saying than “collateral damage”, it’s typically used in war, & it’s disgusting then, but I’ve also heard it used in debates from pro-lifers who are passionately pro-death ... penalty. 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by volsmet

[Renegade7]

Ya'll are too nice.

 

I'll say that it would be very hard for me to give life or death to a minor without the possibility of parole, we're talking irredeemable here when we make a call like that.  It's one of those things where I want to understand the law more, but I want the criminal justice system to make a clear distinction between people it believes can come back into society and make that realistic and the people it believes cannot.  That later category sizable but serious needs to be evaluated, think its about 1 in 7 prisoners in US have life or virtual life sentence and 2000 of the are for non-violent crimes.

 

https://www.sentencingproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Still-Life.pdf

 

We need a separate thread for death penalty, I'll stop instead of derailing the thread further.

[PleaseBlitz]

It is unconstitutional to give a juvenile a life sentence without parole. But thats a new development and why i am working with the guy in prison. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v._Alabama?wprov=sfti1

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

It is unconstitutional to give a juvenile a life sentence without parole. But thats a new development and why i am working with the guy in prison. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v._Alabama?wprov=sfti1

 

Yes, there's been some progress in this regard, believe stuff like extended solitary confinement also has been severely limited for minors as well (thought I don't think that's national yet like what you just posted).

[TheGreatBuzz]

13 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Cowardice is the binding force between all hate groups. 

 

Too often zero doubt has been proven flawed. We lock up enough innocent people, we (our government) can’t risk killing one, there is no more sociopathic saying than “collateral damage”, it’s typically used in war, & it’s disgusting then, but I’ve also heard it used in debates from pro-lifers who are passionately pro-death ... penalty. 

 

Well my zero doubt bar would include things like being caught on tape committing the crime (as he was here) which would leave no doubt of guilt.

[PleaseBlitz]

I don't think this dumb ****er is a case study in death penalty line drawing.  If you are for the death penalty, then Nazi fat boy checks all the boxes.  He committed murder, attempted mass murder, all of which are hate crimes, there is zero doubt he did it because he's on camera doing it, he doesn't deny doing it, there are no mitigating factors, and he's not a juvenile.  

 

If you are against the death penalty, then you are against the death penalty (but hope this dick suffers in prison). 

[RansomthePasserby]

7 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I don't think this dumb ****er is a case study in death penalty line drawing.  If you are for the death penalty, then Nazi fat boy checks all the boxes.  He committed murder, attempted mass murder, all of which are hate crimes, there is zero doubt he did it because he's on camera doing it, he doesn't deny doing it, there are no mitigating factors, and he's not a juvenile.  

 

If you are against the death penalty, then you are against the death penalty (but hope this dick suffers in prison). 

 

Yeah, the guy drove his car like a missile into a crowd trapped on a narrow street with nowhere to go. Seems like a good case for the death penalty to me. 

[visionary]

 

[China]

Oregon white nationalist clashes with antifa activists, later hospitalized

 

A man viewed as a fixture in Oregon’s white nationalist movement was hospitalized Monday after an altercation with antifascist activists in downtown Corvallis.

 

Jimmy Marr, known for driving a pickup truck around the state with racist and anti-Semitic messages emblazoned on the sides, was admitted to Good Samaritan Regional Medical Center, hospital staff told The Oregonian/OregonLive.

 

Corvallis police on Tuesday said he suffered from a “medical event” during the incident. His condition is unknown, and he did not respond to phone calls or an email seeking comment.

 

A fight involving Marr, a 65-year-old Springfield resident, and five other people erupted on Northwest Monroe Avenue near Third and Fourth streets just before 4 p.m., police said.

 

Marr’s truck, painted with a large swastika and the slogan “Nazi is just the N-word for white men,” could be seen parked on a section of Monroe blocked off by police, the Corvallis Gazette-Times reported.

 

Corvallis police Lt. Dan Duncan said four people were jailed on suspicion of disorderly conduct and later released. Police on Tuesday identified the suspects as Connor Butler, 19, Ralph Bolger Jr., 64, Albert Grigorov, 22, and Noah Orduna, 23.

 

Duncan, a police spokesman, said he did not know what prompted the fight.

 

A crowdfunding campaign began circulating on social media Monday night “to support the Corvallis antifascist community who may have been injured or arrested” in the incident.

Marr has been linked with Andrew Oswalt, a graduate student at Oregon State University, who is currently serving 40 days behind bars.

 

Last month, Oswalt was convicted in Benton County on multiple counts of first-degree intimidation, a hate crime, for plastering racist bumper stickers on cars parked outside a Corvallis food co-op in 2017.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, China said:

Marr’s truck, painted with a large swastika and the slogan “Nazi is just the N-word for white men,” could be seen parked 

 

It may not be productive to fight people like this; we should instead find ways to have them irreversibly and humanely sterilized.

[PleaseBlitz]

2 hours ago, Riggo-toni said:

It may not be productive to fight people like this; we should instead find ways to have them irreversibly and humanely sterilized.

 

I don't think men get to that stage of belligerence if they have healthy and ongoing sexual relationships.

[Riggo-toni]

[Riggo-toni]

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Larry]

Gee. Put up a sign with the word "hate" on it, and some people assume you're talking about him. 

[visionary]

 

[FanboyOf91]

That's the face of a man who'd it do a lot of good to see his best remaining years slip through his fingers while serving a life imprisonment sentence.

[JCB]

I’m sure it’ll go real well for him in stir.

[China]

1 hour ago, JCB said:

I’m sure it’ll go real well for him in stir.

 

I'm sure he'll find a home with the neo-nazi gang in jail.

[visionary]

 

[Larry]

Wonder how the NRA feels about sword control. 

[Fresh8686]

This filmmaker spent months interviewing neo-Nazis and jihadists. Here’s what she learned.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/1/14/18151799/extremism-white-supremacy-jihadism-deeyah-khan

 

Quote

Sean Illing

You’ve sat down with both neo-Nazis and jihadists — you’ve befriended them, gotten to know them, broken bread with them. What’s motivating them? Where does all this hate come from?

Deeyah Khan

Much of it doesn’t come from hate. It comes from a lot of other basic human needs that are not being met. To be sure, there are political and social and economic factors involved on both sides, but if you dig deep, you find that it’s about much more than that.

I tried to understand the core psychological draw of these movements. I found that a sense of belonging or purpose was a major factor. These people join these groups and suddenly they have a sense of meaning in life, a belief that they matter, that their voice matters. It’s as though they were once invisible and now they’re seen.

Most of these men get so much attention once they do something horrible, or once they say something horrible. Before that, they’re invisible. And I think there is something really powerful in that, and perhaps that says more about us as a society than it does about them. But it ought to give us pause when we shower extremist groups with constant media attention.

Sean Illing

That reminds me of something one of the former jihadists in your film said: “Fighting in defense of Allah was an almost transcendental emotion.” I thought this was so revealing, because it speaks to the primal, metaphysical urges driving a lot of these people on both sides — there’s an almost spiritual need for some higher purpose, and the ideology itself is just a prop.

Deeyah Khan

In many ways, the ideology is just window dressing. Many of the jihadists I’ve spoken to, other than the recruiters and the leadership side of it, are not particularly religious, are not particularly well versed in their faith at all. For them, it’s about feeling righteous and believing that they’re doing something important and meaningful in life.

They also do it because they know it scares you. They put on this front, take on this image, and suddenly they get all this attention. They’re on magazine covers and newspapers and on TV, and the most important leaders in the world have to look at them, have to worry about them. That’s incredibly intoxicating for these young men

Sean Illing

Absolutely, and I’m grateful that you’re doing this work. I do, however, think it’s important to restate that empathy has its limits, and there are many, many people in these movements who cannot be reached and have to be confronted and, frankly, defeated.

Deeyah Khan

I agree 100 percent. There were several moments in which I discovered the limits of empathy and was genuinely concerned about my own safety. I remember traveling to a white supremacist training camp somewhere in Tennessee and there were two or three ex-military guys following me around and telling me right to my face, “I’m going to put a ****ing bullet through your camera. I’m going to put a ****ing bullet through your head if you turn that camera toward me.”

There was another guy who wouldn’t talk and just kept staring at me the whole time, with his gun on his lap, and he just kept holding on to it. Then he just stares at me and goes, “You know what was the best part about being in Iraq?” I said, “No, what’s the best part about being in Iraq?” He said, “Getting paid to shoot ragheads like you.”

I was actually pregnant while shooting the film about white supremacists, and something they all agree on is that people like me should not be having children. I wore baggy clothes and tried to hide it as much as possible. And my child is mixed-race, so that was extra unnerving for me.

One guy came up to me after Charlottesville, blew cigarette smoke in my face, got right up to my nose, and said, “Are you ****ing pregnant?” And I just had to look him dead in the eyes and say as calmly as possible, “No, no, I’m not.”

So as much as I say human connection is important, engagement is important, I fully understand that the danger a movement like this presents should not be underestimated.

 

Sean Illing

Watching your two films back to back, it’s so apparent how complementary these extremisms are, how reciprocal they are. They’re actually invested in the success of each other. Is that how you see it?

Deeyah Khan

Absolutely. They need each other, and when it comes to the recruitment of jihadists in the West, for example, you can see this quite clearly. The more somebody is shunned and pushed away from the country they live in, the more you are actually pushing them into the arms of extremists, of people who wish these kids, and the rest of us, harm.

ISIS is quite explicit about this in their recruitment. They admit that their biggest enemy is actually not white supremacists or anything like that. Their enemy is people like me, and people who want to get along, who want our societies and our various communities to coexist. That’s the gray zone that needs to be destroyed.

They desperately want people to pick a side.

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Fresh8686