Newsweek: Alex Jones and Other Conservatives Call For Civil War Against Liberals

[ExoDus84]

I'll keep it simple: Alex Jones is a piece of ****. He just panders to the lowest common denominator, shouting bull**** as loudly as he can, for what amounts to marketing purposes. It's inflammatory and pathetic.

 

What concerns me more isn't that loudmouth hemorrhoids like that exist, but that Trump, a sitting U.S. President, actually listens to him. That's ****ing scary.

[No Excuses]

The world of extremist politics is pretty interesting. Without a doubt we have more right extreme elements in our current political landscape, but the few left wing extremist groups ironically share quite a lot in common with the right whackos.

 

It all make senses in light of the Horseshoe Theory.

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

 

 

The extreme fringes of the political spectrum have more in common than they think. 

 

Conspiracy theories, anti-semitism, disregard for expertise, pushing junk pills ....

 

 

 

[carex]

33 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

They exist. We just don't have comparable actions and behavior from the left to expose them.

I'm unclear what you're saying here. Commitment or non-commitment leads to gridlocked government?

 

well, depending on the population either can, but for you personally switching parties every election is just voting against the you of a few years before and insuring previous work will be undone

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, carex said:

well, depending on the population either can, but for you personally switching parties every election is just voting against the you of a few years before and insuring previous work will be undone

Not being committed to one party doesn't mean I jump from one to the other on schedule. It means I vote for the candidate who I feel is best for the country, regardless of their political affiliation. For the most part, the GOP is a **** show right now. If they cleaned up and the dems started acting like idiots, I'd recognize it. I'm also not going to vote for the Rock over John Kasich.

1 hour ago, ExoDus84 said:

I'll keep it simple: Alex Jones is a piece of ****. He just panders to the lowest common denominator, shouting bull**** as loudly as he can, for what amounts to marketing purposes. It's inflammatory and pathetic.

 

What concerns me more isn't that loudmouth hemorrhoids like that exist, but that Trump, a sitting U.S. President, actually listens to him. That's ****ing scary.

Read your 2nd paragraph, then read your first paragraph, then think about how Trump got to be president, and viola.

[twa]

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 I'm also not going to vote for the Rock over John Kasich.

 

Did you take advantage of your chance to vote for Kasich?

[Burgold]

15 hours ago, tshile said:

What do you do if you don't like either side all that much?

 

See, I get this, but it's getting very close to the point where not liking Dems is a bit like not liking spinach or broccoli. While not liking the Republicans is a bit like not liking Bernie Madoff.

 

Edit: If there are good Republicans out there (and there are) they need to start standing up and fighting against their party (and way, way, way too few are)

Edited July 24, 2017 by Burgold

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 minutes ago, twa said:

Did you take advantage of your chance to vote for Kasich?

Many times.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Many times.

Ah, so you were one of those people Trump keeps complaining about who kept voting multiple times

It's one person/one vote

[thebluefood]

Man, Alex Jones his buddies are gonna be in for a real shock when they realize not everyone Left of the bloody John Birch Society isn't a liberal and some of them actually own fire arms. 

 

What a pack of ideologically and morally bankrupt bullies. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Ah, so you were one of those people Trump keeps complaining about who kept voting multiple times

It's one person/one vote

How many times I got to tell you? I don't play by the rules.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

Without a doubt we have more right extreme elements in our current political landscape, but the few left wing extremist groups ironically share quite a lot in common with the right whackos.

 

I've thought this for a while. The way they analyze things, how they attack/defend ideals, how easily they're riled up, the feeling to take 'action' and how extreme the action should be, etc... they have a lot in common.

 

That's why even though the biggest problem right now is with the right wing extremists, the left wing extremists are contributing factors that shouldn't be ignored.

[Burgold]

Just now, tshile said:

That's why even though the biggest problem right now is with the right wing extremists, the left wing extremists are contributing factors that shouldn't be ignored.

I agree with this. That's why the extremes used to be considered the fringe. Extreme fanaticism on the left or right leads to a bad place.

 

Every so often, the fanatics got it right and push something that eventually becomes mainstream and benefits us all... Women's vote, public education, an end to slavery, etc.... or heck, the American revolution itself, but more often than not... even those bits of progress are modified and compromised version of the extremists agenda.

 

I think one of the best examples is gun control. The Far Left utopia of a gunless society is not only impractical, but could cause great harm. The Far Right utopia of completely unfettered gun freedoms would similarly lead to disaster.

[Popeman38]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

See, I get this, but it's getting very close to the point where not liking Dems is a bit like not liking spinach or broccoli. While not liking the Republicans is a bit like not liking Bernie Madoff.

 

Edit: If there are good Republicans out there (and there are) they need to start standing up and fighting against their party (and way, way, way too few are)

No, you don't get it. You say you do, them equate Dems to being good for you like vegetables and not liking Republicans to common sense.  That analogy proves you don't get it. The GOP is a **** show, and hasn't received my vote on the national ticket in over a decade.  That doesn't mean the Dems are good.  

Edited July 24, 2017 by Popeman38

[tshile]

I don't think the dems are "good"

 

Their options are at least reasonable. For the most part I even understand why they're so attached to them; not all, but most.

 

The GOP is producing unreasonable options in too many cases.

 

I hate that because I don't particularly like the democrats policies, but I don't have a competent alternative. If Kasich won the primaries I could have at least considered it, but with Trump it wasn't even an option.

 

I do like Vogel who's running for LT Governor but so far all i've put into it is a long NPR segment with her. She was a conservative who spoke about womens rights, social safety nets, and the environment in a reasonable way. She's a conservative and progressives will have tons of bats to swing at her. But given what I heard she was at least worth considering...

 

[Burgold]

So, what I'm getting from your post, Popeman is that you think the Republicans are like Bernie Madoff. You're just unsettled as to what you can accept the Dems are.

 

More seriously,

 

The Dems are broccoli and spinach. Now, you're right. Broccoli and spinach are good for you, but they aren't enough. Plenty of missing minerals and vitamins if that's the whole of your diet. The problem with the D's are in what they are missing. The problem with the R's (on the National level) is that they are corrupt and toxic.

 

Example: Having health insurance is a good thing. The need for health reform was tremendous. Making it so you can't be denied for pre-existing conditions and a host of other things... is a good thing. That's broccoli! However, a salad with only broccoli in it sucks. It also doesn't provide you with any protein. So, what you need to do is beef up the salad with other veggies, eggs, nuts, meats, etc. The broccoli is good for you. You need the broccoli. It's just incomplete.

 

That in a nutshell is the problem with the democrats.

 

Edit: I'm not sure if Tshile and I said the same thing, but I feel like we typed similar things. :allhail:

Edited July 24, 2017 by Burgold

[mcsluggo]

4 hours ago, tshile said:

Right, I understand that, but this goes so far beyond that.

 

For instance... I can find faults with both parties' policies, despite also finding things I like.

 

But when I point out what I don't like about democrats I'm stunned listening to the defense i receive from people that usually identify as democrats. Same with the conservatives/GOP.  Often times in my head, with people I know well, I'm thinking something along the lines of: That's not at all the person you are, you don't actually think that way, and if I could remove Republican/Democrat from the issue you wouldn't think that at all.

 

To the point where their allegiance appears to be with the team, not any particular set of morals. They only claim moral reasoning when it suits them (and conveniently ignore it when said morals contradict with some other policy they're defending because their team picked it.)

 

There are a lot of people you can pick where they will fall on an issue not based on the merits of the issue, but simply which side each party has staked out. That's not using morals for anything, that's picking a team and defending them the same way some of us do (or used to do) for the Redskins or any other team sport.

 

Except that politics and voting actually matters...

 

 

I agree with this thinking ....in principle and in theory.  

 

but the reality i see RIGHT NOW, defies the theory.  

 

I am a small "c" conservative to my very core.   Risk adverse...  i save like i am borderline insane (automatic withdrawals go into TSP or Roth or 529 or oth Vanguard because i've maxed out my contributions to the others..... and well over half of my after-tax paycheck is sucked into savings before I even see it).   I am very family and community oriented, i got married very young, and have been married to the same woman for over 25 years.     I support the police, possibly to a fault.   I am weirdly religious... sort of.   i can NOT completely convince myself that God exists (nor that he doesn;t), but i envy those that HAVE convinced themselves (have a deep strong faith).    and in any case,  I strongly believe that religious institutions remain a strong force for good in our society, i go to church regularly, and participate strongly in the church community, and do most of my community outreach/charity/volunteering through the church.   I'm uneasy about abortion, and think that there really is something special about the human lives that are created, and that they are special long before they are physically viable to survive outside of the womb.    I haven't done any drugs this century other than the socially condoned (alcohol -bourbon/gin/beer/wine), and even my dress style has evolved to small c conservative... mostly buttoned down, professional or "dad" wear...  not too loud.

 

I SHOULD be a poster child for big-c Conservative outreach.   i WANT to be tempted by the GOP.   I hear the call of the 1970s pro-business, roll up your sleeves and get-er-done, oldsmobile republicans.  pro-family-pro growth, pro-efficiency... we all pull ourselves, and each other, up together by our bootstraps, sweat and hard work.

 

But the more i see the less of there is ANY "there" in the current conservative movement/philosophy, for me at least.   I USED to be tempted by the GOP's professed pro-business leanings.  I know that the long term solutions to most problems are through economic growth, and that well functioning markets are far and away the best avenue to achieve the growth that allows us to afford luxuries like social programs in the long run.  

 

Yes, I voted for Obama  (and Frank Wolf), I thought, and still think, that Obama was a great leader for america. But, honestly... I could see the appeal of McCain.  He is principled, consistent, and you honestly believe that he is speaking his conscience.   I agreed with him less than I agreed with Obama, but i generally trusted his motives.  The country would not have suffered because of his stewardship.    I also saw the appeal of Romney...I disagreed with many of his Conservative social positions, but agreed with his "c"onservative thinking and manner.   He IS the old school actually pro-business candidate.  the guy that wants to make things run well, so that we all advance together.... the country wouldn't've suffered because of his leadership, either 

 

Although, in both McCain's and Romney's cases, the men were weakened once they became candidates.  They both were perverted away from their core beliefs by having to appeal to a GOP electorate... that frankly sucks.   And they were perverted more than Bob Dole or GHW Bush were.  and had to bend over and sully themselves more than Obama or Clinton had to.   And, frankly, while either of those men had the core capacity to have been good for America, i think both of their legacies as presidents would've suffered greatly in actual implementation from having to to accommodate pressures from what passes for "the right" today.          

 

Which brings us to today......  Frankly......  Point me to ANY-thing that would lead you to believe that ANY of today's prominent republicans believe in ANY of the appealing aspects of conservatism? Either at their core beliefs?  or in their implementation or practice?  You might have been able to make a case with Jeb Bush????     but...  Mitch McConnell? Paul Ryan?  Donald Trump?   ANY of the prominent GOP voices right now...??   ANY of them?????? 

 

The GOP is sick.  And the appalling leadership isn't the cause.. it is the symptom.   The GOP electorate is the problem.  It has become diseased.  Several generations of pandering have led it into the worst combination of populism, nativism, anti-elite-ism, and just plain ignorance.   all of the individuals in the conservative electorate are not sick, nor ignorant, nor... whatever.... but as a whole?  the rallying cries?  the issues that move the needle for "conservatives" today?   they are sick.    

 

 

 

 

 

I can quibble and find fault with the policies/positions/actions of any politician you show me.   Including George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Abe Lincoln, FDR...or whomever.   and it is useful and helpful to do so.  keep hammering on them, make them do better.  it is all good.   And, without question ALL democrat candidates, and democrat positions have flaws.   Some of them MAJOR.     But for me... right now... when you compare the flaws of today's democrats to the flaws of today's republicans... the fight isn't even close to fair.   It is not choosing between the stereotypical  "more services now (democrats)" versus "more growth now (republicans)"  or Obama versus Romney   (both smart, and both principled, and both competent, but with competing visions for what is good for America).   It is more like choosing between Churchill versus Skeletor.   Yes Churchill has flaws (egotistical, inflexible, misogynistic, impulsive... etc... )  ....... but ... Skeletor... is a ****ing cartoon character designed to be cartoonishly evil and incompetent at the same time....     and skeletor does a worse job at filling that pigeonhole than Donald ****ing Trump.

Edited July 24, 2017 by mcsluggo

[TheGreatBuzz]

I hold strong on my belief that the big problem with our country is primaries.  It causes good ploiticians to have to go to the fringe to win the primary because people on the fringes are who votes in primaries.  Then in the general it is too late to go back.

[Burgold]

6 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

 

 

 

 

I am a small "c" conservative to my very core.   Risk adverse...  i save like i am borderline insane (automatic withdrawals go into TSP or Roth or 529 or oth Vanguard because i've maxed out my contributions to the others..... and well over half of my after-tax paycheck is sucked into savings before I even see it).   I am very family and community oriented, i got married very young, and have been married to the same woman for over 25 years.     I support the police, possibly to a fault.   I am weirdly religious... sort of.   i can NOT completely convince myself that God exists (nor that he doesn;t), but i envy those that HAVE convinced themselves (have a deep strong faith).    and in any case,  I strongly believe that religious institutions remain a strong force for good in our society, i go to church regularly, and participate strongly in the church community, and do most of my community outreach/charity/volunteering through the church.   I'm uneasy about abortion, and think that there really is something special about the human lives that are created, and that they are special long before they are physically viable to survive outside of the womb.    I haven't done any drugs this century other than the socially condoned (alcohol -bourbon/gin/beer/wine), and even my dress style has evolved to small c conservative... mostly buttoned down, professional or "dad" wear...  not too loud.

The above describes me pretty well though I've always figured myself as a liberal as the scatter plot is drawn out. There are definitely some big social and economic issues where I fall on the left (gun control, environmentalism, to name a few), but there are some classic conservative notions that I like very much. I do believe in the free market (though I think there is a place for government support of science, R&D,) I was pretty wary of the bailouts, and do believe that people and corporations have the right to fail. I also believe that while respect is a good thing, that PCism in terms of sheltering people from language is destructive and dumb (banning tag, banning the Pledge of Allegiance, etc)

 

I don't think I'd ever confuse myself with a CONSERVATIVE, but there were many I at one point deeply respected and there were a whole bunch of conservative ideas that I thought were superior ones. I find that less and less now. I sometimes worry that it's me and I'm becoming infected by the sportsification of politics and the "us" vs. them fever, but I think that it's mostly about the fact that modern conservatism really is cold, destructive, short-sighted, and  awful.

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

I hold strong on my belief that the big problem with our country is primaries.  It causes good ploiticians to have to go to the fringe to win the primary because people on the fringes are who votes in primaries.  Then in the general it is too late to go back.

I don't think it's the primaries. We've always had primaries which were beset by pleasing factions in the party.

I think it's that the influence of money has never been stronger. Politicians are now more beholden to BIG Money and lobbyists. It's always been that way to a degree. Politics is the playground of the elite. I think that money has corrupted absolutely.

[Kilmer17]

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

 

I don't think it's the primaries. We've always had primaries which were beset by pleasing factions in the party.

I think it's that the influence of money has never been stronger. Politicians are now more beholden to BIG Money and lobbyists. It's always been that way to a degree. Politics is the playground of the elite. I think that money has corrupted absolutely.

Every state uses a primary election system now to choose their final candidate for just about every office.  It didnt use to be the only way.  Smoke filled backrooms did a better job in some places, state conventions did just fine in others.  Local caucuses worked well in other places.

 

The sportsification and money is the problem.  Add in social media and an endless supply of "media" options for information and voila!  You get a nation becoming more hatefilled and polarized. 

[Burgold]

That probably does present a more comprehensive picture, @Kilmer17

 

It certainly isn't a simple problem with one variable. Heck, some still deny there even is a problem.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

6 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Committing to either side seems unwise to me. Look at the people who blindly defend Trump and the GOP. I suspect if the left started carrying on similarly, there's a percentage of the base who would follow in stride.

 

I've said repeatedly that I don't care if someone is pro-Democrat or pro-Left. But yes, if a person isn't solidly and loudly anti-Trump, STRONGLY anti-alt right and probably, at this point, anti-GOP as well then i am going to question them. I can't understand that on any level. In my view it's the political equivalent of staying neutral in the Earth is round/Earth is flat "debate". 

 

But hey, sorry if I hurt any feelings. 

 

#wishywashylivesmatter

 

Peace

 

 

Edited July 24, 2017 by BornaSkinsFan83

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

14 minutes ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

But hey, sorry if I hurt any feelings.

I was devastated.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

Just now, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I was devastated.

 

Hugs? 

 

And if it's any consolation, i don't think you're wishy washy. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 minutes ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

 

Hugs? 

 

And if it's any consolation, i don't think you're wishy washy. 

It's all good. Nothing can ruin this day for me. I was driving over to my mom's house earlier and this guy honked at me three times then pulled up beside me and said "your tire's low" to which I replied "yeah well your horn sucks." Then later there was this dachshund in my mom's neighborhood that had gotten loose so I went over to the owner's house and said to the guy, "hey, your wiener's out" and then after he gave me a funny look, asked "want me to grab it?" So, you can see why I'm on cloud 9 right now.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Larry]

6 minutes ago, BornaSkinsFan83 said:

 

I've said repeatedly that I don't care if someone is pro-Democrat or pro-Left. But yes, if a person isn't solidly and loudly at least anti-Trump and possibly anti-GOP as well then i am going to question them. I can't understand that on any level. In my view it's the political equivalent of staying neutral in the Earth is round/Earth is flat "debate". 

 

 

 

There was a poll run, in the leadup to the NC primary, asking lots of questions of likely Republican Primary voters.  (And then further breaking down the results according to which of the then-dozen GOP candidates they intended to vote for.)  

 

They asked a whole bunch of questions where, frankly, I was rather surprised that they even asked such questions.  Things like whether the voter thinks Islam should be legal in the US.  But still, the results.  

 

One of the questions was "Are you glad that the North won the Civil War, or do you wish that the South had won?"  

 

Among Trump voters, the results were:

     North: 24%

     South: 38%

     Not sure:  38%

(For GOP primary voters, as a whole, the numbers were 36, 30, 34)

 

Now, what I note is that not only do a third of primary voters wish that the South had won the Civil War, but that there's another third who "aren't sure".  

 

Really?  You expect me to believe that you "aren't sure" whether you wish the South had won?  What, you waiting for more evidence to come in?  

 

Sorry.  Far as I'm concerned, show me somebody who's "not sure" in that issue, and I'll show you a Confederate sympathizer who's got enough brain cells left to not say so out loud.  (OK, maybe it's a person who is successfully lying to himself.)  

 

Link to the poll data.