What expectations do you have for the secondary this year?

[skinny21]

Lots of change this year with two new safeties, a healthier Fuller competing for the slot corner role, a well regarded corner added in the draft, depth additions in Holsey and Nicholson (and Smithson) and, perhaps most importantly, a coach that is apparently a very good teacher to help with the basics and improve the communication breakdowns of last year.  

 

In short, expectations should be higher for this group, but how much so?  

[Tsailand]

[Renegade7]

Better then last year really aint really saying much.

 

I believe in Swearinger at FS and Cravens at SS.  It's so important that these two do their job, because it just feels like a lot of young blood in the cornerback group.  I've seen different reports about Norman shadowing #1s, shadowing #2s, I'm not sure how they are going to use him, but I do know QBs are going to try and pick apart the opposite corner.  If Breeland starts getting lit up again, I'm not sure if any of the young bucks will be ready to step into that spot either.  I need some preseason and some man coverage to really see if I'm right or not.

[Koolblue13]

Such a huge question mark here. Its been a mess for such a long time, that I refuse to get excited about it. Im amazed they actually aggressively addressed it and thats exciting.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

I'm still concerned about the coaching.

[Burgold]

I think Breeland bounces back. Too many players had a down year for coaching and playcalling not to have had a significant impact. I think Norman improves also mainly because the safety play will be improved. I hope Swearinger is as good as minicamp hype says. Cravens will be interesting. He seems to be a player. The question is whether he has the speed to be effective at safety, but if he plays like an Alvin Walton kind of safety (a lot of force and run support) I think he can be very effective. As for nickle, I think somewhere between Fuller, our 3rd rounder and the other guys I think we'll be okay.

 

Overall, I think this is one of our stronger defensive units.  DL will be interesting, but it depends how the rook and the free agents mesh. Linebacker seems to be a positive with Kerrigan's steady good/great play, a probowler in the middle, and Murphy/Smith/Galette on the other side.

 

Overall, I think it comes down to coaching. We still have holes, but the talent is there.

[TSO]

Well, we certainly threw some numbers at the issue, didn't we?  

 

No idea how to assess it or even speculate how it'll shape out.

 

I could see it ending up to where it looks very similar to last year with Fuller, Breeland and Norman the top three, guys like Everett and Dunbar backing them up, and the only real new face being Swearinger (I know, Cravens is technically new at SS, but he was here and doing similar things on 3rd down).

 

I could also see some combination of our rookies (including a surprise undrafted guy) earning major roles or even starting over any of those guys outside of Norman and Swearinger. 

 

I haven't been able to really go through these draft picks like I used to, but the little I've seen of Fabian has me pretty excited. He plays like it's too easy for him. 

 

So, yeah. We've got the numbers. If they didn't completely bungle this draft and the general player acquisitions this offseason they'd better be improved. It'd be pretty nuts if they don't considering the amount of resources invested. 

[Koolblue13]

@thesubmittedone  yeah, about a half a loaded draft worth.

 

Impossible to tell if it'll help, especially this year.

 

Could be great though. Cravens is the biggest question mark right now. At least the most important one I think, assuming Swearinger locks FS down.

 

Holsey in the slot, Fabian at CB2 would be great.

[Reaper Skins]

I'm predicting better play and more interceptions, but also more penalties from Norman and Swearinger

[XxSpearheadxX]

3 hours ago, Reaper Skins said:

I'm predicting better play and more interceptions, but also more penalties from Norman and Swearinger

What makes you say that about Norman?

[“Misdirection”]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/27/healthy-kendall-fuller-has-impressed-redskins-coac/

 

On Fuller:
“I think he feels a lot better with where he is physically and that’s important obviously for a DB,” Gruden said. “We probably pushed him a little bit too hard. He felt good, but I don’t think he was really quite his 100 percent self.

 

“He was good enough to play, he’s a tough guy, he’ll fight through anything, but I think this year he feels like the strength is back.”

 

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/In-Torrian-Gray-The-Redskins-Return-Focus-To-Technique/cf54e104-96a9-4493-8e82-2422475b1040

On Torrian Gray:

“No disrespect to the coaches we had, they were more of the big-picture-type coaches and they’re good coaches,” Gruden said. “But Torrian is more of a hands-on, fundamental, technique guy, and I think that’s something we really needed to work on.”

 

If you need proof, just ask anyone in the defensive backs room, who will almost immediately tell you that during OTAs and minicamp, they felt as though they had gone back to school at their own position, and seem to be better for it.  

 

“I’m actually learning football this year,” said Will Blackmon, who migrated from cornerback to safety last season.

 

“I’m finally learning football,” cornerback Dashaun Phillips said. “I’m learning techniques.” 

 

“He got us back to the basics,” Hall said, “reading quarterbacks and drops and routes.”

[Reaper Skins]

27 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

What makes you say that about Norman?

His comments this off-season about bad blood with the NFC East opponents.  His high profile criticism of officiating and the fact that Swearinger's playing style is supposed to be physical.  I think they'll play off each other all season and try to set an aggressive tone early on

[XxSpearheadxX]

2 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

His comments this off-season about bad blood with the NFC East opponents.  His high profile criticism of officiating and the fact that Swearinger's playing style is supposed to be physical.  I think they'll play off each other all season and try to set an aggressive tone early on

Yeah def possible, I kind of hope that Norman realizes he's going to be targeted and reviewed the tape of his most penalized games and figure out what he can do different, because of who he is and the stuff he says he has to realize refs are going to call every little thing

[“Misdirection”]

If Gray and Tomsula can do what Callahan did for our line, we'll be in fantastic shape.

 

Also https://nflspinzone.com/2017/06/27/washington-redskins-torrian-gray-will-make-redskins-secondary-better/

 

"This offseason, Fuller got word that Gray may be interested in a return to the NFL. After hearing that, Fuller went to Gruden and made his pitch for Gray, per Jake Kring-Schreifels of Redskins.com.

 

“I said I thought he was the best defensive back coach in America,” Fuller said. “I just left it at that.”

 

Fuller and Kyshoen Jarrett’s positive words were enough for Gruden and the team to reach out to Gray. Once Gray interviewed, Gruden quickly realized he was exactly what this defense needed."

[RandyHolt]

Not terribly optimistic. We haven't had a good free in 10 years.  Breeland and Fuller seemed to struggle. It all starts up front, and up the middle, I am told. I have questions inside, and we still don't have a NT so until we see otherwise.... 

 

[Morneblade]

On 6/29/2017 at 1:35 PM, RandyHolt said:

Not terribly optimistic. We haven't had a good free in 10 years.  Breeland and Fuller seemed to struggle. It all starts up front, and up the middle, I am told. I have questions inside, and we still don't have a NT so until we see otherwise.... 

 

 

 

I feel you about the DL having a bit impact on how well the secondary plays. I hope we're much better up there, because that's going to help. I do think we're better on the back end now though.

[SkinsGuy]

A lot of familiar faces in the secondary, but also a lot of change.

 

We'll see how it shakes out this coming season.

[skinny21]

Really like what I've heard about Gray.  

 

Considering quite a few of our guys don't have a ton of experience in the secondary, his focus on the basics and his teaching ability could/should be a big help.  

 

His addition, Swearinger's signing, Fuller looking more like his old self, and (hopefully) better all-around coaching/communication by Manusky are the 4 changes (to the secondary) I'm most excited about.  

 

Also really liking the potential of Cravens, Holsey and Moreau.  

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Wasn't sure the best place to put this, but this is a great read on how Norman has performed against the top NFCE WRs over the past 3 seasons, and what we can expect to see this year: https://www.profootballfocus.com/fantasy-football-metrics-that-matter-josh-norman-vs-the-nfc-east/

Quote

 

Not only is Norman one of the toughest cornerbacks in the league, but he is a disruptive force that each opposing offense needs to carefully game plan against. We know Norman will shadow top wide receivers in 2017. So I asked myself two questions: From a fantasy perspective, what does Josh Norman’s presence mean for Odell Beckham Jr., Dez Bryant, and Alshon Jeffery? And from a game-planning perspective, how should each team try to attack Norman?

 

Knowing that Norman is likely to shadow Beckham, Bryant, and Jeffery twice each this season, I decided to compare each wide receiver’s effectiveness on each route (over the past three seasons) to how Norman has historically fared by each route. Each chart is sorted by Norman’s “worst” routes – which are determined by passer rating allowed (opposing passer rating when targeted) over expected passer rating allowed (average passer rating allowed of all cornerbacks on each route).

 

 

More at link.

[Peregrine]

For me, I think it really depends on the DLine.  Last years pass defense was horrific, because Breeland had a down year, the rookie Fuller didnt catch on, and our safeties are terrible.  This year, I do have faith in both Norman and Swearinger as proven performers.  If the DLine cant get pressure, I see at least one of Breeland/Fuller/Moreau stepping up, and us moving from about dead last to maybe 20th in the league.  If the DLine can get pressure I think we can get to about 15th, middle of the pack.  The reality is we have 3 CBs battling for the spot opposite Norman where I believe one will prove they deserve it this year.  3 out of 4 good starters in the secondary versus 1 last year will make a big difference, even if Cravens were to falter.

[skinny21]

So, while I believe that talent is generally more important than coaching, some of the things I've read about last year's coaching and communication issues makes me think there is a lot of room for improvement on that front.  

 

Given that we know Swearinger, Norman, and Breeland can be good starters, I think it's going to come down to seeing what we get out of Cravens, whoever mans the slot (Fuller), and the coaching/scheming.  

 

Obviously pass rush will also play a big role.  To some extent, I think this also will fall on coaching - Manusky sending more aggressive blitzes, coordinating that with coverage, and how he utilizes the talent could all offer a boost from our previous DC.

 

Not sure we're there yet in terms of talent in the front 7, but there are some solid pieces.  With good coaching, I think there's enough talent to have some success in pass defense.  

 

Lastly, the depth.  I like Dunbar for depth on the outside, and again, having a good teacher in Gray to learn from should help his development.  Wouldn't be shocked if Dunbar winds up playing outside with Breeland moving to the slot in our nickel package.  Who knows when Moreau will be ready, but he should be an asset sooner rather than later.  Holsey got some praise from Gruden and did some good things on the limited College tape I've seen (and at a position we might be able to use him if Fuller struggles).  The guys vying for backup safety roles - Everett, Evans, Hall, Blackmon, Nicholson, Smithson, etc. (who am I missing?) are an interesting blend of youth and vets.  Not ready to write anyone off until we see what they look like in camp/preseason, and after they get some quality coaching from Coach Gray.  

 

Overall, I'm pretty optimistic about the group, but I could see them starting out somewhat slowly as they adjust to the scheme/NFL.  

[Playaction2Sanders]

Its completely dependent on the front 7. If they stink again then the secondary will likely stink as well..We have a few young bodies back there with with Moreau, Fuller, Breeland, Cravens, I guess u can add DJ as well. So thats encouraging. Too me though they just feel like bodies out there. I'm not worried about Norman since its the same situation with him.

[Conn]

The amount of "potential" we have is pretty staggering. We've poured resources into the secondary and because of that we've got a roster full of guys with huge ceilings and one stud. Will it pay off? I have no idea but I have more faith in this coaching staff than the last one, for whatever that is worth.

[PartyPosse]

On 7/1/2017 at 6:48 PM, Peregrine said:

For me, I think it really depends on the DLine.  Last years pass defense was horrific, because Breeland had a down year, the rookie Fuller didnt catch on, and our safeties are terrible.  This year, I do have faith in both Norman and Swearinger as proven performers.  If the DLine cant get pressure, I see at least one of Breeland/Fuller/Moreau stepping up, and us moving from about dead last to maybe 20th in the league.  If the DLine can get pressure I think we can get to about 15th, middle of the pack.  The reality is we have 3 CBs battling for the spot opposite Norman where I believe one will prove they deserve it this year.  3 out of 4 good starters in the secondary versus 1 last year will make a big difference, even if Cravens were to falter.

Agreed. I think the entire secondary looked worse than they were because of how poor the d-line was and particularly how lost our ILB were throughout the season. We had a young secondary, especially once the injuries hit. Fuller an Cravens didn't stand a chance and Breeland was left on his own far too often and his confidence took a major hit. I expect Ryan Anderson and Zach Brown to be absolutely key for any chance to see major improvement from our secondary.

[Koolblue13]

5 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

The amount of "potential" we have is pretty staggering. We've poured resources into the secondary and because of that we've got a roster full of guys with huge ceilings and one stud. Will it pay off? I have no idea but I have more faith in this coaching staff than the last one, for whatever that is worth.

Seeing it addressed so aggressively is amazing, after how long it was totally ignored. Im not really one of the "all that matters is the front 7" crew. I get that it matters of course. Everything does and no position plays in a vacuum,  but talent in the secondary might be the most talent dependant area on the team. Its a huge question mark right now, but at least it was actually addressed. 

 

Like Swearinger said, it was obvious we didn't have a safety last year.