Pick a Side! Who gets the credit for this draft?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Scott is gone and not coming back, so no matter who set the board, there was 2 months of time where Bruce and the gang could do whatever they wanted with it and made the selections.  It ultimately falls on them for better or worse.

 

It's pretty easy to see how this will play out at a later date.  Those that stand behind nearly every team decision will point the finger at Scott if this class doesn't pan out and those that aren't big fans of the current front office will be more apt to point the fingers at Bruce. 

[lovemaskins]

Honestly, I'd say Bruce gets a lot of credit.  I thought he's brought some semblance of stability to our organization since he got here, recognized his flaws and attempted to address them by bringing in a personnel guy in SM.  Seems to me he at least gleaned from SM during his tenure with the Skins and while that may have very well been SM's board I think the entire staff over the last couple of years has gotten better at identifying what they want in the organization.

 

I see direction for the Redskins now, even from Snyder if that's believable.  We're seeking tough hard nose "football players."  That hasn't always been the case.  We sign our own (Morgan Moses), seek guys who love football, no longer sign long dumb contracts, or overpay FAs, and have made the playoffs 2 of the last 5 years, and could have made it last year.

 

We're much more calculated than we ever were and I think Bruce Allen should be given credit for that.  Not just Scott McGloughan, the draft savant even though he's a hell of talent evaluator. 

[RandyHolt]

Arthritis gets credit. 

 

Allen dropping to us was the difference maker for our draft, and it was no doing of our own. Well, we did take him I suppose, but any fan here would have taken him too so I won't put too much stock into Dan Bruce or Campbell doing so.

[justice98]

I don't know how you can quite get credit before they've even hit rookie mini camp.  And while Scot may have been gone, they literally keep everyone else on the scouting staff, which were mostly people that were there before Scot got there.  

 

So if I had to pick a side, I'll go Bruce.

[Art]

On 4/29/2017 at 10:08 AM, Warhead36 said:

McLoughan did the leg work, but Allen gets some credit for sticking with it and not letting his own ego get in the way and drafting who he thinks is best.

 

This is interesting.

 

Some would tell it that McCloughan is no longer here because of ego and power plays internally.   Yet, the man with the ego who won that, as some tell it, power play, stood pat and did exactly what the guy he fired would have done?   The fun part is you are actually pretty close to right.   The more fun part is those who think this had anything to do with a power struggle or ego simply know nothing.  

 

[Cliffmark1]

11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Scott is gone and not coming back, so no matter who set the board, there was 2 months of time where Bruce and the gang could do whatever they wanted with it and made the selections.  It ultimately falls on them for better or worse.

 

It's pretty easy to see how this will play out at a later date.  Those that stand behind nearly every team decision will point the finger at Scott if this class doesn't pan out and those that aren't big fans of the current front office will be more apt to point the fingers at Bruce. 

But if Scot didn't set the board who would we have picked.  That thought scares me.  I do think this was a very good draft. 

[bedlamVR]

We have a reputation of drafting badly but it is not we draft badly but we have chopped and changed coaches and schemes so often that players struggle to develop and depth gets washed out leaving the team top heavy with names and free agents picked  to make immediate impact ... 

 

I would not say we are great but we are not bad  ... I would say slightly above average .

 

of all the Biggest impact guys last season none of them were directly attributable to GMSM ... 

 

Having a guy like Scott on board at his best is a huge asset . Scott causing the distractions he was back in February less than worthless ... 

 

i would hope if we do bring in an external hire it is a draft guru ... but I would be fine if it was someone who could just free guys like Santos and Campbell to work to their strength.

[Koolblue13]

We have a lot of guys in our FO who've now been working together and with the same HC for a while now. Stability goes a long way towards sustainable success. 

[Rskins06]

The ONLY thing changed in that draft room was 1 person not being there.  SM was fired for a reason and I don't believe it had ANYTHING to do with BA and his ego.  I think scouting dept did a great job with the draft board and BA followed their board and draft plans, which were set in place long before the draft. 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

Arthritis gets credit. 

 

Allen dropping to us was the difference maker for our draft, and it was no doing of our own. Well, we did take him I suppose, but any fan here would have taken him too so I won't put too much stock into Dan Bruce or Campbell doing so.

 

Dont agree that Jonathan Allen was the difference maker to our draft...if he had been picked before #17 there were other strong candidates for that pick who would have been day 1 starters. And as was mentioned before, Bruce could have panicked and traded up to make sure we got Jonathan Allen when he dropped out of the top 10--there were several stupid trade-ups made by other more "legit" GMs that day--and we could have been out a 2nd round pick, meaning no Anderson (or anyone else that was available at that spot).

 

Plus as Brewer alluded to, there's a helluva lot more to the draft than waiting until April 27th and seeing who is available when it's your turn to pick, and all the extra stuff that takes place and shapes your board up until draft night (including free agency signings that can allow you to truly go BPA in round after round) shouldn't be brushed off as unimportant simply because some luck went your way in the 1st round. 

 

Not sure why people want to act like a trained seal could have had the same draft as we did under Allen...I mean, outside of just disliking the guy. In my opinion, both Bruce and Scot played pivotal roles in the success (or failure) of the draft. 

[Koolblue13]

I bet this all goes completely different if Allen and Foster came off our board right before us and we took Howard.

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Dont agree that Jonathan Allen was the difference maker to our draft......

 

That's cool - you think its the later round guys that will make a difference. Let's give it time.

 

Allen was a huge coup IMO. I wonder who that other starter would have been. Maybe a corner, or TE were BPA and uncontested day 1 starters, but not necessarily filling the gaping hole on our team.  How much would our D improve if  Breeland is bumped, yet DL was not addressed. Reed sharing TE duty with a day 1 starter taken instead. It's all speculative.

 

But it's not speculative to weigh a teams top pick heavily when grading a draft. We as fans never stop to ask each other exactly how much we grade 1st rounders. I go heavy, you go light. We got a consensus top 10 guy at 18 into a position of need. That's bigly IMO, since BPA only randomly fits need.

 

I hope we can both agree taking Allen at 18 was not a seals plan, nor Bruce's.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

That's cool - you think its the later round guys that will make a difference. Let's give it time.

 

Allen was a huge coup IMO. I wonder who that other starter would have been. Maybe a corner, or TE were BPA and uncontested day 1 starters, but not necessarily filling the gaping hole on our team.  How much would our D improve if  Breeland is bumped, yet DL was not addressed. Reed sharing TE duty with a day 1 starter taken instead. It's all speculative.

 

But it's not speculative to weigh a teams top pick heavily when grading a draft. We as fans never stop to ask each other exactly how much we grade 1st rounders. I go heavy, you go light. We got a consensus top 10 guy at 18 into a position of need. That's bigly IMO, since BPA only randomly fits need.

 

I hope we can both agree taking Allen at 18 was not a seals plan, nor Bruce's.

 

Add in Reuben to that list, as well as trading back or--as I mentioned before--NOT trading up and keeping all our picks. I mean, would Allen at #12 be as much as a difference maker than Allen at #17 and Anderson in the 2nd or Perine in the 4th?

[markshark84]

Credit for what????   None of the players have even taken the field yet.  In 2013 the Jaguars and Rams got the highest "draft grades".....

 

I'd say that Ryan Pace, Rick Smith, and Steve Keim get credit for our Allen pick (and his drop to 17) ---- as well as Allen's shoulders. 

 

That being said, it appears that our current FO went away from Scot's best-player-available philosophy as our selections appeared to address specific needs --- when in certain situations a BPA player was available and not taken.

[HTTRDynasty]

Interesting:

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

The executive I'd presume is Scot's pal John Schneider.  I wonder who the other great player he's referring to?  Anderson? Moreau?  Perine?

 

Cooley in his film reviews loved Allen but seems to think Anderson, Moreau, Perine's ceilings are "good".  He more or less described everyone of them as contributors but unlikely to be great.  It's funny he put a wet blanket on Sheehan's excitement about the draft because he worships Cooley's take.  I respect Cooley's take but the dude could be wrong.   Cooley compared Perine to Robert Kelley.  He compared Moreau to Breeland.  I don't recall his comp for Anderson.

 

I dig this draft but Cooley not being blown away on film review brings home that we never know until is all plays out.  

[HTTRDynasty]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The executive I'd presume is Scot's pal John Schneider.  I wonder who the other great player he's referring to?  Anderson? Moreau?  Perine?

 

Here are the recent NFL Executives of the Year.  I think it's probably Reggie McKenzie.

 

Regarding the other great player, he says he received the text Friday night, so it has to be either Anderson or Moreau. 

 

EDIT:  I'm guessing it's Anderson, based on this tweet Scot's wife sent out after the pick.  Seems like he was high on Scot's board, and he wants the credit for that one.

 

Jessica McCloughan‏ @JessicaMcCloug1 Apr 28

1st round pick taken in the 2nd....Skins are rolling

 

[JSSkinz]

So it's an SM board but the team was on their own for the combine and last month and a half leading to the draft.

 

Let SM go people, he's not the only person who can pick talent and he never really was in control here.

[Morneblade]

7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Here are the recent NFL Executives of the Year.  I think it's probably Reggie McKenzie.

 

Regarding the other great player, he says he received the text Friday night, so it has to be either Anderson or Moreau. 

 

EDIT:  I'm guessing it's Anderson, based on this tweet Scot's wife sent out after the pick.  Seems like he was high on Scot's board, and he wants the credit for that one.

 

Jessica McCloughan‏ @JessicaMcCloug1 Apr 28

1st round pick taken in the 2nd....Skins are rolling

 

 

I think the Anderson pick is as indicative of a Scot pick as any. Not great measurables, but he is a football player. And I can't love his attitude any more than I do. he is the kind of that that will change the locker room from one of "I hope we do well and maybe make the playoffs" to "there is no excuse for failure, we are here to win superbowls and you look at yourself first."

 

I know I'm probably gushing about the guy, but I'm also "gushing" here at home, apparently loosing a lot of blood over the last 2 days. Wife is freaking out and the Dr. is in surgery till 8, so I wont hear anything back till tomorrow. Until then, I'll be gushing about our 2nd round pick "Neo". He will delivery us from the Matrix.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Here are the recent NFL Executives of the Year.  I think it's probably Reggie McKenzie.

 

Regarding the other great player, he says he received the text Friday night, so it has to be either Anderson or Moreau. 

 

EDIT:  I'm guessing it's Anderson, based on this tweet Scot's wife sent out after the pick.  Seems like he was high on Scot's board, and he wants the credit for that one.

 

Jessica McCloughan‏ @JessicaMcCloug1 Apr 28

1st round pick taken in the 2nd....Skins are rolling

 

 

Good detective work!  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I think the Anderson pick is as indicative of a Scot pick as any. Not great measurables, but he is a football player. And I can't love his attitude any more than I do. he is the kind of that that will change the locker room from one of "I hope we do well and maybe make the playoffs" to "there is no excuse for failure, we are here to win superbowls and you look at yourself first."

 

I know I'm probably gushing about the guy, but I'm also "gushing" here at home, apparently loosing a lot of blood over the last 2 days. Wife is freaking out and the Dr. is in surgery till 8, so I wont hear anything back till tomorrow. Until then, I'll be gushing about our 2nd round pick "Neo". He will delivery us from the Matrix.

 

Wow.  Feel better.  

 

Yeah I wasn't in love with Anderson initially on the draft thread, for one reason and that is I wanted speed on the edge -- and Anderson is one of the slowest edge rushers in the draft, both in terms of long and short speed.  But I warmed up to him as the draft got closer, especially after reading the Laconfora article which I posted back then on the thread. 

 

Think of our edge rushers personalities:  Murphy, Kerrigan, Preston Smith.  They are all laid back dudes.   People talk up Compton as a leader but I don't really see him do the pep talks and rally the troop drill -- he's more of a fun personality, cool guy to have around type.  The pep talks-fire up the troops players last season oddly seemed to be RJF and Spaight.   We need more guys like Anderson.   It still burns me the week leading up to the Giants game  -- the Giants seemed more fired up about the game than the Redskins were.  And that's not hindsight talking -- I whined and whined about it the week leading up to the game on that game thread.  

 

Anderson would fit the Doc Walker category of a guy who wouldn't let you come into his house and eat his dinner.  Kerrigan seems to be a cool guy but he's so understated, he doesn't even complain to the refs when he's blatantly held at least based on my observation.  Preston and Murphy seem quiet types.

[Morneblade]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wow.  Feel better.  

 

Yeah I wasn't in love with Anderson initially on the draft thread, for one reason and that is I wanted speed on the edge -- and Anderson is one of the slowest edge rushers in the draft, both in terms of long and short speed.  But I warmed up to him as the draft got closer, especially after reading the Laconfora article which I posted back then on the thread. 

 

Think of our edge rushers personalities:  Murphy, Kerrigan, Preston Smith.  They are all laid back dudes.   People talk up Compton as a leader but I don't really see him do the pep talks and rally the troop drill -- he's more of a fun personality, cool guy to have around type.  The pep talks-fire up the troops players last season oddly seemed to be RJF and Spaight.   We need more guys like Anderson.   It still burns me the week leading up to the Giants game  -- the Giants seemed more fired up about the game than the Redskins were.  And that's not hindsight talking -- I whined and whined about it the week leading up to the game on that game thread.  

 

Anderson would fit the Doc Walker category of a guy who wouldn't let you come into his house and eat his dinner.  Kerrigan seems to be a cool guy but he's so understated, he doesn't even complain to the refs when he's blatantly held at least based on my observation.  Preston and Murphy seem quiet types.

 

Oh, I understand. He is the opposite of someone like Von Miller. And even if Junior does not blow out an Achilles this year, it's still a need. But, I think Allen because of his ability to disrupt from the inside it will provide more opportunities for our edge guys, especially if we can get just a little more push to collapse the pocket. I hope we get a moderate quality NT at some point, and I actually like what we have from a rotational aspect out DL in our nickle. We have some quality starters, and I think some quality depth.

 

Anderson is not the answer for that for any of that and statistically, will not set the world on fire.

 

But, what I love about him is that I think everyone will be accountable. Taking plays off will be "handled". Jogging during a play will get an ass chewing. He will make people better because he will out work them, and let them know when they are making mistakes. I think his approach will be embraced and instead of a "workman" like attitude on defense, it will become one that is out to impose it's will on the offense, and there will be no mercy.

 

He will never lead our team in sacks, or tackles or pressures or any other statistic. He will just lead the defense. Like Ryan Clark was for Sean Taylor. Or Dave Butts was for our front 4 in the 70' and 80's. He will be a unsung guy that is the glue of the team.

[Burgold]

18 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

He will never lead our team in sacks, or tackles or pressures or any other statistic. He will just lead the defense. Like Ryan Clark was for Sean Taylor. Or Dave Butts was for our front 4 in the 70' and 80's. He will be a unsung guy that is the glue of the team.

Most people run a bit slower with pads on, but not all. There are some people who play faster than their 40 time. I'm hoping Ryan is one of those guys. He looks to be. He's strong enough and powerful enough that his 4.78 may be like someone else's 4.6. On top of that, the way this guy talks about the combine I don't think this guy was ever a track athlete. He may not know how to run a perfect 40 yard dash and so his speed may be "slow" just because he doesn't know how to get off the blocks, point his feet, and pump his arms like a sprinter.

 

We'll see. I'm hopeful given his intensity and attitude that he makes it and has a great career.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

Most people run a bit slower with pads on, but not all. There are some people who play faster than their 40 time. I'm hoping Ryan is one of those guys. He looks to be. He's strong enough and powerful enough that his 4.78 may be like someone else's 4.6. On top of that, the way this guy talks about the combine I don't think this guy was ever a track athlete. He may not know how to run a perfect 40 yard dash and so his speed may be "slow" just because he doesn't know how to get off the blocks, point his feet, and pump his arms like a sprinter.

 

We'll see. I'm hopeful given his intensity and attitude that he makes it and has a great career.

 

Let me double down that I like Anderson.  So I am not arguing the pick.  I am excited about him being here.   Love having an alpha guy like that on defense and like I said IMO its needed.   

 

What Cooley likes about him:  he's an all day player, he's relentless.  He's around the ball.  He has good instincts.  He understands scheme and knows what teams are trying to do to him.  He has strong hands and plays with good leverage. What he didn't like:   As a pass rusher, he's not dynamic.  He doesn't have fluid hips.   He's often late off the snap.   He gets outrun off the edge especially by fast running backs.   He lacks speed and he isn't sudden.  He isn't explosive or plays fast. 

 

He thinks he will jump Preston Smith in the lineup.  He brings some nastiness to this defense which is needed.   Cooley said the more players you have on defense like that it can become contagious in a good way. 

[Peregrine]

Credit is about who can repeat the success.  That tells you who deserves credit.  It doesnt matter if Bruce Allen "made the picks", if he used Scots recommendations, its Scots credit.  Why?  Because Bruce couldnt do it without Scot.  But Scot could do it without Bruce.

To say otherwise is to say that if Van Gogh paints a masterpiece, and someone has the decision of whether to do away with or not, and choses not to, that he gets the credit for Van Goghs work, and not Van Gogh.

 

That being addressed, Im not actually saying they used Scots board.  Ultimately we will know not based on this year, but on last years and next years.  If last years draft picks dont start to pan out, no matter how good this draft is, Scot will not get the credit, Bruce will.  And if next years draft picks done pan out, no matter who good this years picks are, Bruce wont get the credit, Scot will.  Now that they are divorced, their work will now be divorced, and time will test them both and reveal who was right.