Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

[twa]

2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Oh joy twa playing whataboutism and redirecting once again. This is so boring that it literally makes my teeth hurt.

 

Well if ya'll could come up with something more interesting it would help.

[tshile]

13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Depends on the end goal. If the end goal is to get Trump out of office, then we wont get anything until we have the votes, and you dont change the votes without changing peoples opinions and understanding on what went on. This all helps (or hurts, depends) in that regard. But you cannot deny that drops of info like this help in that regard. Its about changing public opinion more than anything. 

 

All you need to drop the president is the votes, right? (serious inquiry)  

 

I'm weighing the reactions across the board.

 

And what I see right now are people who either support the GOP, or support Trump (and people who support both), rationalizing why this shouldn't change how they vote.

 

Combine that with scandal fatigue (and it's not just the Trump stuff - the #metoo stuff definitely adds to the potential fatigue)

 

And we're talking about mid-terms almost a year away, and a new presidential election that's just less than 3 years away...

 

Whether you're talking about a significant change in Congress (whether by ousting of republicans in mid-terms or the scandal being so bad it forces the GOP to change their tact), of whether you're talking about the 2020 election.... 

 

Zooming out to the big picture... I think you need more than what we have. I think pretending otherwise is either being overly optimistic (at best) or flat out failing to recognize how our political cycle actually works.... 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

6 minutes ago, twa said:

Well if ya'll could come up with something more interesting it would help.

Real scandals aren’t as entertaining as what you’re used to.

11 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

literally makes my teeth hurt.

It’s cause he’s too sweet.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Larry]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

 Seems to me what we're really missing is evidence of some sort of qpq...

 

 

You mean, other than the facts that:. 

 

1)  One week after the big meeting, the Trump campaign successfully had anti-Russian language removed from the GOP platform. 

 

2). Two weeks after that, Russia began exposing the DNC emails they'd stolen. 

 

But you do have a point. If the only standard of proof you'll accept is a recording of Trump and Putin personally, in which they explicitly agree to specific performance in exchange for specific payment, then it's unlikely that you're going to get that. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Larry

[tshile]

3 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

You mean, other than the facts that:. 

 

1)  One week after the big meeting, the Trump campaign successfully had anti-Russian language removed from the GOP platform. 

 

2). Two weeks after that, Russia began exposing the DNC emails they'd stolen. 

 

But you do have a point. If the only standard of proof you'll accept is a recording of Trump and Putin personally, in which they explicitly agree to specific performance in exchange for specific payment, then it's unlikely that you're going to get that. 

well it depends on which way you are looking at this.

 

are you looking at this from the aspect of - what do individual ES posters think?

 

or are you looking at it from the aspect of - what is the general breakdown of the US population and how does that alter voting patterns?

 

because only one of those actually matters.

[Llevron]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

Zooming out to the big picture... I think you need more than what we have. I think pretending otherwise is either being overly optimistic (at best) or flat out failing to recognize how our political cycle actually works.... 

 

So, I think the best thing Dems and other can work towards is defeating Trump in 2020. You have to work towards the assumption he is going to be there otherwise if he is and you already blew your load you are finished. Unfortunately Dems aint as smart as me so who knows. 

 

But realistically speaking there is a chance to flip the senate in 2018. Dems only need only win 3 seats and not lose anyway, and then the wind is at their back. Sessions wont be allowed to use that 'kinda executive privilege but not really' to protect Trump because Dems will be in charge. That's huge. Jr wont be allowed to use whatever that lawyer excuse he used was. That's huge too. Little stuff like that. It adds up and those are two very very significant people who we know arnt telling us everything and we know are lying. Who knows what we find. And that is, as you said, more than what we have. 

 

I think the only people truly tired of the investigation are people who probably dont voice the political opinion anyway, or people on the right. Im not sure how anyone could be uninterested in this stuff if politics is their thing. Its the biggest story in my lifetime for sure and always entertaining because we have a childish president to is a meme onto himself. I mean, the left lost. Big time. This is their chance to get revenge or right the wrong. However they want to sell it, you dont need much. I know Dems suck at this but Trump is fueling his own opposition every day. 

 

Long story short, what we have is significant and not enough. I think both can be true. But I do think what we know now leads to other questions and just judging by how this is going, you will get more. And probably soon. 

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

or are you looking at it from the aspect of - what is the general breakdown of the US population and how does that alter voting patterns?

 

 

Dont we have polling numbers that show that most of the country believes Trump did do something improper? Anyone have this? 

[SoulSkin]

36 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Dont we have polling numbers that show that most of the country believes Trump did do something improper? Anyone have this? 

Edit: This is for senior officials. Can't find Trump-specific poll. Will look.

Here's one

http://www.people-press.org/2017/12/07/stark-partisan-divisions-over-russia-probe-including-its-importance-to-the-nation/

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by SoulSkin

[TheGoodBits]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

Big picture here....

You're going to need something more than circumstantial evidence.

I honestly don't even know if testimony is going to be enough. I just don't. I would like to think it would be. In my mind, it should be. But I don't know if it will.

 

It just seems like every day something comes out and people are like "BOOM!" yet to me it seems like we've plateaued here...

 

 

Corroborated testimony is key. One person’s testimony is useless he said, she said. Multiple witnesses independently testifying the same thing would be different. 

 

And to your other point, the slow drip of news coming out definitely minimizes the impact and works in Trump’s favor. If, all at once a week before the inauguration, we found out everything we know now it would have seemed way more significant. 

[SoulSkin]

Most recent poll that I could find for Trump specifically, from ABC News/WaPo poll Nov. 2. 49% think it's likely Trump himself committed a crime in connection with possible Russian attempts to influence the election. 44% say not likely. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/02/poll-trump-crime-russia-244470

http://www.langerresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/1193a1TheMuellerInvestigation.pdf

[Llevron]

Thanks @SoulSkin thats what I was looking for. Even the poll that says 44% say that he himself probably didn't do anything.....well......so far he hasn't been connected to anything. But letting Sessions and Trump Jr off about their conversations about him for no reason effects that greatly. Once we crack that we will be good to go. 

[DogofWar1]

I think eventually we'll get actual records too.  An email here or a text there, maybe even a voicemail.  I doubt it'll be Trump, but pick from whichever Trump advisor you want and eventually there will be something meaty.  Too many communications between too many people.

 

All those times someone plead privilege?  Probably illegal activity.

 

And at least some of those will have documents somewhere.  And at least some of those will likely have a direct line to Trump.

 

Hope Hicks may be the key.  I'm unconvinced that the campaign managed to maintain a total papertrail bubble away from Trump, but its not impossible.  But Hope Hicks definitely is in on this.  She was the conduit.  Get her, and we done.

 

That or Trump Jr.  There's a reason he used (faulty) privilege arguments.

[twa]

34 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Thanks @SoulSkin thats what I was looking for. Even the poll that says 44% say that he himself probably didn't do anything.....well......so far he hasn't been connected to anything. But letting Sessions and Trump Jr off about their conversations about him for no reason effects that greatly. Once we crack that we will be good to go. 

 

I doubt they are letting them off, asserting privilege usually just means a demand is sent to POTUS(in the case of executive privilege) in the matter of attorney/ client privilege it is referred to a judge (which is also done with Executive privilege claims not resolved by a demand to POTUS)

 

They will either be found to have or not have that right.....eventually.

 

It can delay things , as it has done in the past(such as fast and furious)

 

add

is that Predicto's teeth I hear grinding? 

Edited December 8, 2017 by twa

[tshile]

i guess i'm just way more cynical than you guys.

 

i just watched a major political party come out kind of against a mid-30's adult courting and rubbing a 14 year old, then slowly slink back to supporting him. Saying things like - "well, at least he isn't a democrat"

 

if they don't have enough to actually put trump on trial for something, I don't know that anything meaningful changes. i think who the democrats put forward as a candidate will matter much more.

[@DCGoldPants]

17 minutes ago, tshile said:

i guess i'm just way more cynical than you guys.

 

i just watched a major political party come out kind of against a mid-30's adult courting and rubbing a 14 year old, then slowly slink back to supporting him. Saying things like - "well, at least he isn't a democrat"

 

if they don't have enough to actually put trump on trial for something, I don't know that anything meaningful changes. i think who the democrats put forward as a candidate will matter much more.

 

it's only going to get worse before it has any chance of getting better. His supporters aren't going to get anything for the money and time they give him. Is he going to convince Amazon to put their HQ2 in Bama? Is he going to convince any real job creators to bring new business there that isn't Walmart or Fast Food? Not likely.

 

But when he goes to Washington to get up and yell about how women who were raped should be forced to give birth. They are going to love it. They'll convince themselves that was worth their welfare check not being enough to have real meals. The moral victory will fill their stomachs. 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

WOW.

 

I've met my first genuine "deplorable".

 

And Trump was right about one thing: he could shoot someone in broad daylight and he wouldn't lose ANY support.

 

This guy is drinking some serious "Jim Jones kool aid". 

 

He doesn't see ANYTHING wrong with Trump's possible collusion...and this is coming from a former Marine (20+ years)

Edited December 8, 2017 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

First time, eh? That’s pretty damn amazing. That guy you just met is not an anomaly. They are everywhere.

[Llevron]

9 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

First time, eh? That’s pretty damn amazing. That guy you just met is not an anomaly. They are everywhere.

 

Yea thats what I was thinking. You are a lucky dude @BRAVEONAWARPATH cause I see these losers daily. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

18 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

First time, eh? That’s pretty damn amazing. That guy you just met is not an anomaly. They are everywhere.

Exactly my thought, ya’ll need to visit out here. I can throw a rock in any direction and hit a Trumper.

[Predicto]

1 minute ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Exactly my thought, ya’ll need to visit out here. I can throw a rock in any direction and hit a Trumper.

 

well get started already

[TradeTheBeal!]

My neighbor is a Trumpkin. Tea Party flag in the yard, NFL boycott, etc.  

 

Nice enough guy, tho.  Just kinda dull.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

37 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Yea thats what I was thinking. You are a lucky dude @BRAVEONAWARPATH cause I see these losers daily. 

Yeah, I've interacted with them online but it was my first "live" encounter.

 

 

 

[Larry]

10 hours ago, tshile said:

i guess i'm just way more cynical than you guys.

 

i just watched a major political party come out kind of against a mid-30's adult courting and rubbing a 14 year old, then slowly slink back to supporting him. Saying things like - "well, at least he isn't a democrat"

 

if they don't have enough to actually put trump on trial for something, I don't know that anything meaningful changes. i think who the democrats put forward as a candidate will matter much more.

 

Oh, the Republican organization, and their faithful followers, are going to remain 100% faithful, no matter what. 

 

Just look at at the things they've saluted, already. The Russian government openly supporting their candidate. Three mail order brides. **** grabbing. Walking through teenager's dressing rooms. People marching behind Nazi flags. Adults being banned from the mall for propositioning teenagers. Electing people who've been impeached, and removed from office, twice, for refusing to obey the law.  People handing Top Secret information to the Russian ambassador, just to show off how important they are. Firing the head of the FBI, for refusing to promise a free pass to political buddies. 

 

These are things which they've already agreed to sell their souls for. 

 

You think theyre gonna walk back from that?  

 

Nope. They've already sold their souls. 

 

Only way they walk back from that, is IF IT STARTS COSTING THEM. (Something they value more than their souls). 

 

If the Republican Party starts losing elections, in large quantities, THEN maybe they'll decide that maybe Nazi flags is a bad look. MAYBE. 

 

But no way in Dallas it happens, before they lose a bunch of elections. 

 

Theyve already proven that thats all they care about. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Larry

[Cooked Crack]

 

[skinsmarydu]

2 hours ago, Predicto said:

 

well get started already

Seriously.  We've got one at work, he's a "young" 61-year-old driver, otherwise really cool guy.  He's had season Falcons tickets since the late 70s...knows the stats from game 3 in '84 if you asked him, no ****.  I only liken him to my husband as far as having one of the best memories I've ever witnessed.  He's also a trust-fund baby who day-trades.  Thinks everything is just rosy.