TheGreatBuzz Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Expanding on what Busch said, if he didn't pay much in taxes, the same as anyone else, I don't fault the person as long as it was legal. I fault the politicians that came before that allow that system to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 This whole thing stinks. Trump the champion for the blue collar, please. Trump is doing things to fatten his pocket. The whole cabinet are rich business men that can create an arbitrage anytime they want. We pulled out of TPP but are cozy with Russia. What is going on? How can we say that none of his action have no hint of impropriety if he is not transparent with his information. This whole thing blows. Hillary was crucified because of Bengahzi, and emails. Some how her fund raiser was pay for play, but Trumps business practices are above reproach? Hillary gave her tax returns, but Trump doesn't have to because..."if there was something bad we would know it"....what?! I don't care what he paid or even if he got a fat return. I want to know where his business holding are divested. That is all. Who are you doing business with. Why does that have to be a mystery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 TGB, thanks for the further explanation. Was wanting to include that in my original post, got sidetracked during my break, and forgot to include it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 32 minutes ago, youngchew said: I posted this in the other thread, but this article compiled a list of every time Trump said he would release his taxes if president, from 2011 through June 2016. 23 times. http://www.nationalmemo.com/showusyourtaxes-heres-every-time-donald-trump-has-said-he-would-release-his-tax-returns/ if it's not a big deal, and he has nothing to hide, then why not just release them like most presidents in recent history have? The issue here is that Trump is not required to release his tax returns. He is under no legal obligation to do so. No petition or demand or rending of cloth is going to make him, because even if all those things happen he can still reply with, "No" and be well within his rights. If you want to change the law and make release of tax returns a legal requirement to be eligible to run for President, fine. Otherwise, it's just useless outrage. I love how the equivalency "if it's no big deal, and you have nothing to hide..." resurfaces here. Each side of the aisle has gotten quite a bit of use out of it in the last 16 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I don't care at all about this. During the debate he admitted to not paying any taxes because of the rules governing taxes. Don't like those rules, change them? What is there to find in those returns? He's not worth billions and billions? Does that change the fact that since the 70s he's had wins (investing in NY property) and then failures (80s investing in Atlantic City/Airplanes/USFL) and seen millions come and millions go and worth probably more today then all of us posting combined? To me I don't believe that there is anything to gain from releasing this other then to add more fuel to the never ending bashfest fire and this is just backlash by the left for listening to "show us a birth certificate" nonsense before Trump got there. This is payback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, boobiemiles said: Hillary gave her tax returns, but Trump doesn't have to because..."if there was something bad we would know it"....what?! I don't care what he paid or even if he got a fat return. I want to know where his business holding are divested. That is all. Who are you doing business with. Why does that have to be a mystery? Hillary was under no obligation to provide hers, and Trump doesn't have to because it's not required. I feel VERY dirty having to defend him on this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Hillary was under no obligation to provide hers, and Trump doesn't have to because it's not required. I feel VERY dirty having to defend him on this... You know, I really didn't care until I saw the OP use three exclamation points AND a question mark! And I thought...wait...nope, still not outraged. Still don't care, like most politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Hillary was under no obligation to provide hers, and Trump doesn't have to because it's not required. I feel VERY dirty having to defend him on this... The modern American nominee does. Every GOP one since Nixon has (although Ford didn't but he wasn't a nominee). I suspect this can be achieved by the states in that they can pass a bill to require full disclosure if Presidential candidates want to be on the ballot. If only 1 or 2 big states (like California or Texas does it)..then it forces the nominees hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 15 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: I love how the equivalency "if it's no big deal, and you have nothing to hide..." resurfaces here. Each side of the aisle has gotten quite a bit of use out of it in the last 16 years... But the fact remains that he said he would release his tax returns and now he won't. Now that he's actually president, he refuses to deliver on something he said he'd do. Something he said he would do over 20 times in the last 5 years. So, while he's not legally obligated to, he has gone back on his word. If Obama had done that, they'd have his head. Can you imagine if the Kenyan-born, muslim socialist had refused to release his tax returns?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 What companies is he invested in, and where does he owe money and how much: these are the important items to know, because is he making policies to enrich himself to the detriment of our country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said: What companies is he invested in, and where does he owe money and how much: these are the important items to know, because is he making policies to enrich himself to the detriment of our country? You mean like making a huge tax deductible donation to your own personal charitable foundation. That sort of enriching yourself to the detriment of the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Don't be obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 You won't be ignored. Until you ask for something. ~**** you, buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 13 minutes ago, youngchew said: But the fact remains that he said he would release his tax returns and now he won't. Now that he's actually president, he refuses to deliver on something he said he'd do. Something he said he would do over 20 times in the last 5 years. So, while he's not legally obligated to, he has gone back on his word. If Obama had done that, they'd have his head. Can you imagine if the Kenyan-born, muslim socialist had refused to release his tax returns?! Obama broke campaign promises. Every President has. I agree that the Presidential nominees should have to reveal everything about their life since they are no longer private citizens. But as of now, he is under no obligation to do so. 18 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: The modern American nominee does. Every GOP one since Nixon has (although Ford didn't but he wasn't a nominee). I suspect this can be achieved by the states in that they can pass a bill to require full disclosure if Presidential candidates want to be on the ballot. If only 1 or 2 big states (like California or Texas does it)..then it forces the nominees hands. Which would be awesome. I doubt it ever happens though, because eventually "your" party (not you specifically TEG) might need to hide behind this shelter. The two parties in charge, neither one really cares about the average man. They care about power and money. The rest is just what is required window dressing to get X% of the people to vote for you. That's why you see all these political "enemies" partying together, and going to dinner together, and playing golf together so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Obama broke campaign promises. Every President has. I agree that the Presidential nominees should have to reveal everything about their life since they are no longer private citizens. But as of now, he is under no obligation to do so. Which would be awesome. I doubt it ever happens though, because eventually "your" party (not you specifically TEG) might need to hide behind this shelter. The two parties in charge, neither one really cares about the average man. They care about power and money. The rest is just what is required window dressing to get X% of the people to vote for you. That's why you see all these political "enemies" partying together, and going to dinner together, and playing golf together so often. Oh no doubt. But the issue is Trump doing something 180° different than the modern GOP presidential nominees (I didn't find a detailed history for Dem nominees). I think people are absolutely on point for loudly repeating that - however immaterial the returns might actually be. The tradition (and expectation) has been set and shouldn't be flippantly dismissed by one nominee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Obama wasn't legally obligated to release a birth certificate but he eventually did after almost 8 years of crying by a Trump led birther movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 55 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Expanding on what Busch said, if he didn't pay much in taxes, the same as anyone else, I don't fault the person as long as it was legal. I fault the politicians that came before that allow that system to exist. Agreed. I don't care what anyone does to pay as little taxes as possible, assuming it's legal. 41 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Hillary was under no obligation to provide hers, and Trump doesn't have to because it's not required. I feel VERY dirty having to defend him on this... Agreed as well. I don't like having to defend him either but it's true. It's not required. Don't like the rules? Work to change the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share Posted January 24, 2017 We have no idea who is lining their pockets with Trump actions. How is full disclosure not a law. If we were sworn into office they would go through my life with a fine tooth comb. Is it that Trump's message makes people ignore potential conflict of interest? I mean should people in the GoP and Dems party demand to know what can cause us potential damages. Look at his cabinet. They know how to screw people and get paid. Why isn't somebody saying something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Don't care about net worth (might be amusing to find out, but not pertinent) Don't care about using loopholes (maybe it's not all that patriotic, but it's standard practice/human behavior) Don't care about bankruptcies (maybe he's not as great as he purports, but eh) I do care if there is a chance that his financials could affect policy... and there clearly is that possibility. This isn't Price with his stock, this could affect international relations and the longterm state of affairs for the nation/world. I know that sounds hyperbolic... but that's the (potential?) reality because we just don't know. If Clinton had been elected, I'd have the same concerns if the Clinton Foundation just plugged away, didn't disclose their ties and Hillary said, "don't worry, I won't be involved". Of course, steps were taken when Hillary became SOS (whether that was enough is another matter), because they understood the ramifications. I have trouble believing those saying it isn't a big deal are being honest with themselves (or maybe they're just looking at this from a narrowed viewpoint, making it about bankruptcy/loopholes/net worth). Regarding safe spaces on campuses, I'd be curious to see some hard numbers there (if there are any?). I'd say the onus is on those making the claims to prove this is more than a small minority, or that it's a big of a deal as is made out to be. I'm open to being swayed here. As for poor moving to places with better work (and safety/schools/etc.), I just don't see how it's possible. Where do they get the income to move? How are they going to sell their home? What support will they have when they arrive? Obviously there are a lot more questions, but those get pretty scary and go very hard against our nature to stick with the known. Doesn't mean it's impossible (or maybe it is depending on the situation), but not as easy as getting on a bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 17 minutes ago, DM72 said: Obama wasn't legally obligated to release a birth certificate but he eventually did after almost 8 years of crying by a Trump led birther movement. And I defend his right to say no. I don't think he should have released his birth certificate. That is how these things become "tradition". One side demands the other side do something to prove they aren't X. Now precedent has been set. There is really no reason for a candidate to release tax information. The govt has the ability to say that we received a tax return from candidate X in the following years and everything is above board. 14 minutes ago, skinny21 said: I have trouble believing those saying it isn't a big deal are being honest with themselves (or maybe they're just looking at this from a narrowed viewpoint, making it about bankruptcy/loopholes/net worth). I am being honest. Expecting a politician to do anything to paint themselves in a less than optimal light, with no law requiring they do so, is naive. Also, where is the outrage that Bernie Sanders never released his 2015 tax return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 19 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: And I defend his right to say no. I don't think he should have released his birth certificate. That is how these things become "tradition". One side demands the other side do something to prove they aren't X. Now precedent has been set. There is really no reason for a candidate to release tax information. The govt has the ability to say that we received a tax return from candidate X in the following years and everything is above board. I am being honest. Expecting a politician to do anything to paint themselves in a less than optimal light, with no law requiring they do so, is naive. Also, where is the outrage that Bernie Sanders never released his 2015 tax return? But it makes Trump a big hypocrite by demanding Obama to release his birth certificate and then turn around and not release his tax returns, something that's not technically legal, but has been customary for decades. Plus, we're talking about Trump, a man who has a lot of business ties overseas. I believe it will become a law for presidential candidates to release their tax returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, DM72 said: But it makes Trump a big hypocrite by demanding Obama to release his birth certificate and then turn around and not release his tax returns, something that's not technically legal, but has been customary for decades. Plus, we're talking about Trump, a man who has a lot of business ties overseas. A politician being hypocritical? SAY IT AIN'T SO... Whichever way the wind blows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Popeman38 said: A politician being hypocritical? SAY IT AIN'T SO... Whichever way the wind blows.... True, but this isn't the same as policy and legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornaSkinsFan83 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Some folks are trying to put together a march fot it. We'll see what happens https://www.trumptaxmarch2017.com/current-marches/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, DM72 said: True, but this isn't the same as policy and legislation. Bernie Sanders was all about transparency. Didn't release his 2015 tax returns. No outrage during campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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