Fading Down the Stretch

[GoDeep81]

6 minutes ago, Ashburn Dave said:

 

Not saying Barry's my guy but stability counts for something and I'm OK with him for one more year......

 

You are correct, and unfortunately we're going to do the same thing with Gruden, until it becomes glaring obvious that he can't prepare or motivate his football team to be anything more than a pretender.. I don't want to start over either, but I've seen enough to know how this will end..

[jpage520]

32 minutes ago, DM72 said:

We went 9-7 last year. We had another FA and draft. We should have been better. 

 

I'm really not trying to hear that "we weren't supposed to be any good this year." Were the Cowboys supposed to be 12-2? How about TB? Are they more talented than the Skins? The Giants are on a tear. 

 

How ow long are we going to hear, "it wasn't supposed to be our year"  only to see other teams come from nowhere and make noise?

 

The realistic bar for last year was about 6-10, we ran into a favorable situation in an injury ridden and downright poor year for most of the league in general. The bar for this year was about 8-8. Technically we're still right on schedule lol.

 

The answer to some of your questions is, well, yes. Dallas has a lot more pieces in place. Add the fact that they hit huge on two significant skill position picks in Dak and Zeke and there you have it. Granted, behind that offensive line, it'd almost be hard NOT to have a powerful offense. But regardless, they have pieces in place. They started their build before we did. So the results are showing sooner than ours is. I also have reason to believe Tampa is working their way into being a strong team as well. Far as the Giants go, I called them as a sleeper at the beginning of the year but didn't think they'd hit THIS kind of heat.

 

I mean, hey, remember three years ago this team was 3-13 and finally actually facing up to the dumpster fire it had let itself become. It was the absolute lowest I've seen the team in my life, save for maybe '09 when folks were ready to all out riot after a PATHETIC loss to the Chiefs and ending the Lions infamous losing streak. The answer to your last question is at least one more. It definitely wasn't supposed to be our year. The fact is, the level of nowhere that we came from last year was much deeper than some of the other teams level of nowhere. It takes a lot to dig out of the ****hole this franchise dug.

[SkinsGuy]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

There are a number of reasons why this team has faded down the stretch and the above is by no means meant to fully diagnose our failings. 

 

But there is a reason they are looking at 2nd and longs so often.  That reason is they lined up on 1st down with obvious personnel and formations that said we were going to attempt to run it into a brick wall.  Sure, blocking and everything else plays its part too - but you can't tell me that when you've watched us of late that you haven't been able to diagnose the majority of the plays at the LOS.

 

 

 

Oh, I'm not saying that there isn't anything predictable about this offense. I really don't know.

 

I'm just saying it is funny that I've seen that argument nearly every year I have been here (and I have been here since the place opened).  

 

Of course, a working offense, to me, isn't really about unpredictability. It is about simply lining up and outplaying your opponent.

 

As our should-be Hall-of-Fame center Jeff Bostic used to say (I'm paraphrasing  ) "The opposing defense, everybody in RFK Stadium and watching the game at home knew we were going to run counter-trey and give the ball to Riggins. Our attitude was 'just try and stop us', and they couldn't."

 

The team needs to play better and coach better. Not necessarily be less predictable.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm not going to argue that the team all around needs to be better.

 

I just think of late they seem to be very predictable when it comes to running the ball particularly and its been setting up less than favorable 2nd and 3rd down scenarios.

[Burgold]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not going to argue that the team all around needs to be better.

 

I just think of late they seem to be very predictable when it comes to running the ball particularly and its been setting up less than favorable 2nd and 3rd down scenarios.

Running the ball? What is this pink winged unicorn you speak of. I have never seen such a creature. (Certainly not yesterday)

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Looks like we overrated the offense. It's good but it can be shut down by a good defense. We aren't the Falcons. 

 

The defense is literally the most pathetic unit I've ever laid eyes on. 

 

But hey, December has mattered for two years in a row and no matter how pathetic that is, it's progress 

[Rex Tomb]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not going to argue that the team all around needs to be better.

 

I just think of late they seem to be very predictable when it comes to running the ball particularly and its been setting up less than favorable 2nd and 3rd down scenarios.

 

All of our runs last night were up the gut - we didn't even look for a stretch run opportunity with Fat Rob.  Very easy to key in on for a defense, I think.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Rex Tomb said:

 

All of our runs last night were up the gut - we didn't even look for a stretch run opportunity with Fat Rob.  Very easy to key in on for a defense, I think.

 

To be fair, it would not have mattered. The OL was so bad last night, at times you'd have 5 or 6 guys in the backfield, with our OL, just standing around. It was as bad as anything I've seen from a run blocking aspect.

[DM72]

15 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not going to argue that the team all around needs to be better.

 

I just think of late they seem to be very predictable when it comes to running the ball particularly and its been setting up less than favorable 2nd and 3rd down scenarios.

 

It looked as if they knew our plays.

[Probos]

Some really good, realistic, analytic and objective posts in this thread.  I like what I'm hearing.

 

I had this team at 8-8,...9-7 tops if they got luck in a game.  Has been disappointing down the stretch but they're just not there yet.

 

I want Kirk to stay.  Need lots of help up the middle of the defense from front to back.  More Oline.  I'd also like to ride with the coaching staff we have even though they've been out schemed/coached in a few games (like last night).  I believe they can get better.

 

I'd like to see them finish strong these last two games.  Show some pride.

[clskinsfan]

They are what I thought they would be. I picked them at 7-9 before the season and thats what this team is. The disappointing thing to me is the defense. They have been nothing short of horrid. I guess a silver lining is to take a look at what the Giants did with their defense in the off season. They COMPLETELY rebuilt that side of the team and their defense is carrying them right now. Our offense is legit. Even with the defense putting them in horrid positions all season the offense has done its job. Scott will take care of the defense in the off season. 

[NeverSurrender]

Carolina was really over pursuing the running game.  I would have like to see some counter runs and misdirection/trick plays.  Haven't seen anything like that from Gruden on offense.  I thought Speight played pretty decent.  I would like to see him on the field WITH Compton.  Although I would like to just never see Compton on the field again.   

[Nfcbeasts4721]

1 hour ago, Ashburn Dave said:

 

I've been calling for his head most of the year but I'm now leaning toward we don't have enough talent.  Not saying Barry's my guy but stability counts for something and I'm OK with him for one more year...............unless a gotta have DC drops in our laps similar to Phillips a while back.

Couldn't agree more...I have been begging and pleading for stability for years now..since Snyder bought the team basically but he's doing better...I want stability but it just gets so extremely frustrating I guess seeing other defensive coordinators getting what they get out of players with just the players they have and that's us we have the players we have and due to the fact of how much I can't preach enough about stability maybe it would be for the best if Barry was to stick around... Unless of course something a lot more attractive comes available. So would we benefit using our first pick on a stud safety...going d line in second round and maybe free agency as well as a kick ass line backer and a new d coordinator with his guys?...hmmmm..for now: bring Everett back in at safety or wher ever it was he was playing and get Whitner out huh? hope Kerrigan's injury wasn't severe as well as Garcon, and how far off is cravens from being able to play?, but hey if the scientist say we still technically have a chance for the playoffs here's to on to Chicago. goo Redskins!

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

41 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Running the ball? What is this pink winged unicorn you speak of. I have never seen such a creature. (Certainly not yesterday)

They tried it on first down several times in obvious sets where Carolina was two steps ahead of us and put us in 2nd and 9 or more scenarios so they bailed from it.

[NoCalMike]

9 hours ago, DM72 said:

We went 9-7 last year. We had another FA and draft. We should have been better. 

 

I'm really not trying to hear that "we weren't supposed to be any good this year." Were the Cowboys supposed to be 12-2? How about TB? Are they more talented than the Skins? The Giants are on a tear. 

 

How ow long are we going to hear, "it wasn't supposed to be our year"  only to see other teams come from nowhere and make noise?

 

I know it's frustrating but I think the big difference with the 'Skins is they never "took their medicine" during the awful years.  Snyder was constantly turning over the roster and coaching staff striving for records that just barely got the team to winning records, while similar teams in the 49ers and Raiders spend nearly a decade being obsolete by amassing elite NFL talent.  They didn't go for quick fixes or big free agent signings. They decided that it was better to suffer through some 3-5 win seasons than try and sign a bunch of overpriced veterans in order to get to 9 wins. 

 

For what it's worth, it really feels like the overall attitude of the franchise changed when McCloughan was signed. It doesn't mean he is some sort of savior or will never get anything wrong, but it feels like we finally have someone in charge that wants to build through the draft. 

[Tsailand]

9 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

No, you make a valid point. I think the main retort is that we were BARELY a 9-7 team last year. We had 2-3 coinflip wins that would have put us a little more in the 6-7 win range. 

We had some close losses too.  Advanced metrics (DVOA) had us as the 15th best team last year, so we "should" have gone 8-8... which would have been enough to win the awful 2015 NFC East

[43LarryBrown]

about last night....ugh weak ass play calling...no scheme to offset an aggressive, hyped up superb well coached Carolina defense...you can't just drop back and have guys run routes or run off tackle all day. We did NOTHING to really attack this Carolina defense that was playing deep in the secondary but super aggressive front 7 and make it defend sideline to sideline with multiple screens, draws and underneath drag and swing routes...I am sorry but sit JR until he is healthy he is a liability out there right now. How about a designed swing pass to Chris Thompson and keep working Kelley ala Marshall Falk...and use Crowder more underneath like Edelman...

 

Our defense needs some horses up front and a nasty linebacker and a Ronnie Lott/ ST21 safety...

 

Typical 'skins...we could not match Carolina's swagger...they punched us in the mouth and we folded...THAT is the culture that needs to change...

 

We just do not have that inspirational leader that can will a team...Josh Norman?...please...he is not that...

[skins island connection]

10 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Oh, I'm not saying that there isn't anything predictable about this offense. I really don't know.

 

I'm just saying it is funny that I've seen that argument nearly every year I have been here (and I have been here since the place opened).  

 

Of course, a working offense, to me, isn't really about unpredictability. It is about simply lining up and outplaying your opponent.

 

As our should-be Hall-of-Fame center Jeff Bostic used to say (I'm paraphrasing  ) "The opposing defense, everybody in RFK Stadium and watching the game at home knew we were going to run counter-trey and give the ball to Riggins. Our attitude was 'just try and stop us', and they couldn't."

 

The team needs to play better and coach better. Not necessarily be less predictable.

 

 

 If the team had a good o-line that can run block AND pass protect and be good at it, then you can afford to be more predictable.

but when a player/position is out-classed, you have to find alternative ways to work around it, you don't just say screw it run the play anyway.

[SkinsGuy]

1 minute ago, skins island connection said:

 

 If the team had a good o-line that can run block AND pass protect and be good at it, then you can afford to be more predictable.

but when a player/position is out-classed, you have to find alternative ways to work around it, you don't just say screw it run the play anyway.

 

Football is still about lining up and outplaying your opponent.

 

Moreso than it is about "trickery". Most coaches and older players have seen everything. You aren't going to be able to show much they haven't seen.

[skins island connection]

4 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Football is still about lining up and outplaying your opponent.

 

Moreso than it is about "trickery". Most coaches and older players have seen everything. You aren't going to be able to show much they haven't seen.

Yes, they have to line up and play; but if a defense recognizes the formation you're in, and you run the play, they're already at an advantage; they know whats coming, and that's the hard part of the battle. Then it becomes an athletic issue of whether they stop it.

 

Watch next week; you will see a 3 TE with a single back, and they will try to run. Then look at the defense before the snap; they see whats coming and stop our runner for 0 or negative yards. Furthermore, they try to run straight up the middle,

 

They do the same thing when close to the goal line; whoever is calling the plays thinks our o-line is the best by far, and it never works.

They don't get the push, and its hard to push 10 guys with 6, because of course the TEs can't give any help in run support.

I'm starting to think that the strength/conditioning coach is giving the o-line Jenny Craig or some other diet food.

[43LarryBrown]

18 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Football is still about lining up and outplaying your opponent.

 

Moreso than it is about "trickery". Most coaches and older players have seen everything. You aren't going to be able to show much they haven't seen.

 

 

I disagree ...when you are getting bullied in your own house good coaches can help an undermanned team out...and when two teams are matched up well..scheme helps!

[diehardskinsfan]

We shoot ourselves in the foot at least once a game where either Defensive schemes are concerned, or where offensive play calling is concerned. Sometimes it's seems like we don't even give ourselves a chance. 3 and out on the first Drive? Why not establish the line of scrimmage like most teams and run the damn ball? At least once... No, we throw fade routes to 5'9 receivers on 3rd and goal at the one. (Arizona). Play soft zones against athletic receivers like Larry Fitzgerald. When all the while we could have pressured Palmer easily. (Arizona) . We throw 20 yard outs on 2nd and 7 with our backs to the end zone while enjoying an 8 point lead and end up with a pic 6 ( Eagles) We say we want to run the ball, but we really don't practice it? Anytime we do get something going, we quickly go away from it. McVay is too young, and lacks experience about the flow of momentum and how to help out his skill set on the field. Berry is obviously dealing with a 3-4 plan without a single LB that can dictate the flow of the D. Or even make consistent open field tackles. He doesn't motivate mediocre plays to excel in his scheme. Haslett and Williams got more out of subpar players than Berry has. 

Both coordinators need to go. Not sure yet about Gruden.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm not expecting trickery, just something not completely transparent.  If I know exactly what's going to happen from the comfort of my couch, I'm pretty certain the opposing defense does too.  There is a short list of teams we can just line up and dominate them up the middle and Carolina certainly isn't on it.

[Warhead36]

Its more about deception and unpredictability than trickery. I think our pass plays are designed pretty well and we tend to get receivers open quite often but our run plays are just too predictable. Whenever you see two TEs line up we're going to run the ball. We need to try running out of more standard formations or spread them out with 3 wide(the few times we do run from spread looks they're toss plays to Thompson).

[TD_washingtonredskins]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Its more about deception and unpredictability than trickery. I think our pass plays are designed pretty well and we tend to get receivers open quite often but our run plays are just too predictable. Whenever you see two TEs line up we're going to run the ball. We need to try running out of more standard formations or spread them out with 3 wide(the few times we do run from spread looks they're toss plays to Thompson).

Good post. 

 

I think we can re-calibrate our run game in the off-season/through mini-camp next year. For the next 2 (hopefully 3-4) games, I think we need to make it a significant afterthought in our attack. I would put the Bear and Giant games 100% in KC's hands. Let's be aggressive with tempo and really feature the passing game (our strength) to see where we end up. With the playoffs more of longshot than they were a week ago, I'd rather see us go down swinging for the fences than getting 1 yard on first down and throwing checkdowns on second and third down.