The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[CTskin]

3 hours ago, Lloyds' Mongolian Beef said:

D Hall's re-structure is a win for him only. Hall's place on the chart has nothing to do with fans "overrating". Cravens performing well at safety is irrelevant to Hall's value. Hall couldn't start over many of the players currently on our team last year, but now you expect him to start. Smart. You are right about comical, and about Everett.

 

Cutting D Hall gets rid of a blowhard 15 yard misconduct penalty waiting to happen. The "soul" of our defense? 

 

Our overall fan stupidity is growing. Bruce Allen is the catalyst. McCloughan was our inhibitor. 

Normally I wouldn't respond to this nonsense, but being that you're misinformed, I'll help you along.

 

How many safeties will we keep? Four, maybe five. If DHall is healthy is he a top five safety on the team- yes. In a perfect world, Nicholson and Harvey-Clemons will impress and render DHall unnecessary. Then he could be cut and this whole contract re-negotiation was meaningless. I have very little faith in this scenario coming to fruition, so I'm happy to have DHall back at 50% off. Either he's cut for the same cap hit or we have him back at half off. This is basic math and a win-win. 

 

If you don't understand that he's the emotional leader of the defense then you're lost and there's no talking to you. This isn't an opinion, any Skins fan would know this.

 

Also, if you have a problem with 15-yard penalties then you'll have a lot of fun watching Swearinger.

[Cooleyfan1993]

Spot on, @CTskin!! D Hall has been a true Redskin ever since he came here in November of 09. Anyone who has a problem with him is insane. And he's not a "15 yard misconduct penalty waiting to happen". When was the last time he got a 15 yard penalty for misconduct on the field? 2010? 

 

Hes matured in that area 

[wilco_holland]

2 hours ago, CTskin said:

In a perfect world, Nicholson and Harvey-Clemons will impress and render DHall unnecessary. 

 

Isn't that impossible? What I read about both guys I think neither van bring what DHall does. He is that deep safety with ability to cover slot guys and be an emergency outside corner. The other guys are more SS and maybe hybrid LB guys. 

 

I really question this years later round picks. We picked so many DB's that I have no clue where you gonna stick 'm on the rosters.

 

We have 18 DB's 

 

CB -> pick 5

Norman

Breeland

Moreau 

Fuller 

Dunbar

Holsey

Philips

Homer 

 

S -> pick 4 

Cravens 

Young 

Nicolas 

Hall

Swearinger

Smithson

Everett

Wolf 

Blackmon

Evans 

 

Now pick 1 extra guy, you can choose from either group.

 

Thats what you gonna carry on the rosters probally. I would go Norman, Breeland, Fuller, Moreau, Dunbar, Cravens, Swearinger, Everett, Blackmon, Nicolas. (Not sure about last three. Some give better depth...some give better special team play) 

 

 

 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

45 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Isn't that impossible? What I read about both guys I think neither van bring what DHall does. He is that deep safety with ability to cover slot guys and be an emergency outside corner. The other guys are more SS and maybe hybrid LB guys. 

 

I really question this years later round picks. We picked so many DB's that I have no clue where you gonna stick 'm on the rosters.

 

We have 18 DB's 

 

CB -> pick 5

Norman

Breeland

Moreau 

Fuller 

Dunbar

Holsey

Philips

Homer 

 

S -> pick 4 

Cravens 

Young 

Nicolas 

Hall

Swearinger

Smithson

Everett

Wolf 

Blackmon

Evans 

 

Now pick 1 extra guy, you can choose from either group.

 

Thats what you gonna carry on the rosters probally. I would go Norman, Breeland, Fuller, Moreau, Dunbar, Cravens, Swearinger, Everett, Blackmon, Nicolas. (Not sure about last three. Some give better depth...some give better special team play) 

 

 

 

 

I have a feeling that Holsey makes it.   

[Butters20]

Norman

Breeland

Moreau 

Fuller 

Dunbar

 

Cravens

Swearinger

Hall

Everett

 

 

I was wrestling with Hall/BLackmon. I think Hall because he took a paycut.

Who knows though.

 

[Koolblue13]

I like Holsey to make it.

 

Ill take Hall or just about anyone over Blackmon.

 

Im not convinced Breeland is on the opening day roster.

[Skinsinparadise]

Everett supposedly shining in camp.  He worked in the off season with Ryan Clark just like Landon Collins did an off season ago.  Ditto Cravens.  Will see if Clark has the magic touch.

 

Love this from Tomsula about the D line, etc.

 

 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

I think We're going with 10 DB's....at least for the first 4 weeks; while Murphy is suspended....I think they go with only 8 LB's the first 4 weeks.

[Koolblue13]

I like Everett. I think he's going to surprise people and Cravens in no lock for the start. I wish he wore a higher number. I see 20 something and think speedster and back end. Not run support and loves to hit.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I like Everett. I think he's going to surprise people and Cravens in no lock for the start. I wish he wore a higher number. I see 20 something and think speedster and back end. Not run support and loves to hit.

 

I like Cravens.  Everett is faster.  He ran a 4.49 40 time versus Cravens at 4.65.   Everett has a little Sean Taylor in him the way he hits.  Ditto Swearinger.  I think finally we got some fun safeties to watch.  

[Koolblue13]

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Cravens.  Everett is faster.  He ran a 4.49 40 time versus Cravens at 4.65.   Everett has a little Sean Taylor in him the way he hits.  Ditto Swearinger.  I think finally we got some fun safeties to watch.  

I love Cravens instincts. Him being hurt a lot last year worries me though. At SS its not like he'll be further from the line than he was. I do like the depth we're starting to have at a position thats been empty for so long. If we go into the year without Hall or Blackmon, our safety position could be younger than WR.

[wit33]

Do former guys charge current players to work with them? 

 

Example: Ryan Clark with Deshazor ?

[Renegade7]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Im not convinced Breeland is on the opening day roster.

Honestly, I think we're in trouble if he isn't.  This year anyways.  I'm not high on a rookie or even Fuller opposite Norman, don't care how talented he is, teams are going to try to Antonio Brown him as much as possible, and I don't believe they're ready for that yet.

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

Honestly, I think we're in trouble if he isn't.  This year anyways.  I'm not high on a rookie or even Fuller opposite Norman, don't care how talented he is, teams are going to try to Antonio Brown him as much as possible, and I don't believe they're ready for that yet.

Manusky already said he wants to put Norman on the #2 and double #1s already. Don't know what took Barry so long to figure that out.

 

I could be wrong. I hope I am and its just a shot in the dark guess. Breeland will probably ball the **** out this year, because of the contract and an improved team.

[wilco_holland]

8 hours ago, wit33 said:

Do former guys charge current players to work with them? 

 

Example: Ryan Clark with Deshazor ?

 

Ryan Clark works for a training facility (http://tractionsports.com/team) so my bet is that they will just pay. If it would be free then the facility would just use the players for marketing. So they then say: Clark let some NFL players train here for free. Then other people might think we do great work and become member of our facility. 

 

I think we would be supriced to see how much money these facilities make of NFL players. Some households names like Tom House and Adam Dedeaux train most of the top QB's. If guys who make $ 10.000.000 a year want to work with you....you are not going to ask $100 a hour. You are in a luxury position to just ask $10.000 for a week. (my own example, not based on facts).  

 

So if Ryan Clark can build up his name. Like making Landon Collins way better. Then more players want to work with him and he can ask more and more money. Players then know if I invest in Ryan Clark his training, it makes me a better player. Better players make more money in the NFL. Good investment. 

[Kurd Cudins]

22 hours ago, CTskin said:

Normally I wouldn't respond to this nonsense, but being that you're misinformed, I'll help you along.

 

How many safeties will we keep? Four, maybe five. If DHall is healthy is he a top five safety on the team- yes. In a perfect world, Nicholson and Harvey-Clemons will impress and render DHall unnecessary. Then he could be cut and this whole contract re-negotiation was meaningless. I have very little faith in this scenario coming to fruition, so I'm happy to have DHall back at 50% off. Either he's cut for the same cap hit or we have him back at half off. This is basic math and a win-win. 

 

If you don't understand that he's the emotional leader of the defense then you're lost and there's no talking to you. This isn't an opinion, any Skins fan would know this.

 

Also, if you have a problem with 15-yard penalties then you'll have a lot of fun watching Swearinger.

Cool story bro. It seems my original point has been overlooked. The point was that Bruce Allen is an asshole for giving him more than the vet min. That is his "value" point. We overpaid Hall $1.3 million. Hall's leverage was, "If you want me to play, you have to pay me X." Allen, or really anyone, is an absolute moron for falling for that. Allen had all the leverage and could have said,"If you want to play you have to accept the min." People will believe that $2.3M is Hall's value to us, but they are very wrong. That is our value to him.

 

This devolved into a D Hall discussion, because his value is relevant to the conversation, but this is really about Bruce Allen's incompetence and our moronic fans remarkable ability to not only ignore, but embrace the dysfunction.

 

To your other points: I think we will keep 5 safeties. D Hall is not one of our top five. Cravens, Swearinger, Blackmon, Everett and Nicholson. I like that you have to preclude your statement of fact with, "if he's healthy." Something he hasn't been for the past three years. Wouldn't it be better to have Hall at $1.8M not $3.2? That's simple math.

 

Actually, that IS your opinion.

 

Now you are off track, but Swearinger being a bad signing would very much fit my "Bruce Allen is a drunk asshole" narrative.

[bowhunter]

If D-Hall was a free agent from another team, I'd more quickly agree to his value being vet minimum. However, there is a another factor involved here. D-Hall is "family" to many of our young DBs. The leader and the one many looked up to when they entered the league. How he gets treated once father time catches up speaks a lot about our organization to these players. This year may well be DeAngelos last Hoorah in the league, how he rides off as a Redskins legend may help our younger players buy in to what our franchise is. In this instance, I don't think we overpaid.   

[Guardshock]

51 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

If D-Hall was a free agent from another team, I'd more quickly agree to his value being vet minimum. However, there is a another factor involved here. D-Hall is "family" to many of our young DBs. The leader and the one many looked up to when they entered the league. How he gets treated once father time catches up speaks a lot about our organization to these players. This year may well be DeAngelos last Hoorah in the league, how he rides off as a Redskins legend may help our younger players buy in to what our franchise is. In this instance, I don't think we overpaid.   

 

 

As much as this is a "business", you're right. You have to show your end of life guys respect. You can't massively overpay them but you can treat them right and let other players understand that if you stay loyal, work hard, you too will also get treated with the same respect..

[CTskin]

26 minutes ago, Guardshock said:

 

As much as this is a "business", you're right. You have to show your end of life guys respect. You can't massively overpay them but you can treat them right and let other players understand that if you stay loyal, work hard, you too will also get treated with the same respect..

It's not a Bill Belichekian move, but it's respectable one. And the fact of the matter is that the $1.3M difference between the vet minimum and his potential 2017 salary is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. We're not talking about big money that would prevent us from signing other teams' camp cuts.

[moondog]

I like the idea of harvey-clemons too. I've heard a little positive news about him. Likely a ps squad guy at least best but great size with room to add weight to play nickel or dime linebacker. Nicholson has very good size for a safety too. People can look at this like too many dbs all they want. I'm just glad we finally have depth. If our fourth and fifth corners are moreau and Dunbar that's excellent. We actually have quality DEPTH at corner, safety, tight end, dline, linebackers (especially outside backers), qb and rb. 

 

Some will disagree about all of these - dline may only have one stud and he's a rookie but nearly everyone has experience and are not just castoffs. I know people hate on Compton but if he or foster are backups they are at least quality backups albeit not what you want at starter. These couple groups could upgrade the starters but you're not gonna be stacked at every position. Point is, we have quality DEPTH and can survive injuries. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Defensive line (6)

Starters: Jonathan Allen, Terrell McClain, Phil Taylor (NT)
Backups: Stacy McGee, Anthony Lanier, Ziggy Hood

Change: Taylor in, Matt Ioannidis out

I haven’t been at all sold on Taylor but he is very large and seems to be healthy and that could be all he really needs to get a spot as the starting nose tackle. That will push Ioannidis to the practice squad.

Inside linebacker (4)

Starters: Will Compton, Zach Brown
Backups: Mason Foster, Martrell Spaight

They carried a fifth ILB last year for special teams but there doesn’t seem to be a solid choice here and the special teams guy will come from elsewhere.   

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-post-minicamp-redskins-53-man-roster-projection-defense

 

 

http://www.redskins.com/news/article-1/Back-In-Coaching-Jim-Tomsula-Pushing-Redskins-Defensive-Linemen/e77ef835-7f92-4ede-a2da-60cdd1319f91

At nose tackle, meanwhile, Redskins head coach Jay Gruden joked that Tomsula is going to make a special player at that position. While Tomsula politely backed himself out of the belief he can automatically do so, he did say that the Redskins won’t be any “fat guys” anchoring the line.

“The guys that we have here at the nose guard position…again we’ve got a lot of guys who can play that position, but I mean you look at the guys we have in there and they’re really working their tails off,” Tomsula said. “The truth is going to come when we have shoulder pads on. And a great thing about it is how good our offensive line is. So we will get a real good gauge on just how good we are before we have to go into a preseason game and things like that.”

Two potential options at nose tackle will be Phil Taylor and Joey Mbu, two players fighting for time on the field but with drastically different backgrounds.

For Taylor, he’s just seeking another NFL opportunity. Due to injuries, the one-time Pro Football Writers Associations’ All-Rookie Team selection hasn’t seen regular season action since 2014.

“Don’t you have tremendous respect for that guy?” Tomsula said. “What he has overcome and the ways he’s moving around right now is really awesome to watch, it really is. Phil’s doing really well.”

Mbu, meanwhile, saw the most run with the first-team defensive unit during offseason workouts. Undrafted out of the University of Houston, the 6-foot-3, 323 pounder spent the 2016 season on Washington’s practice squad.

 

[DC Lumber Co.]

Great to hear a developmental guy like Mbu is seeing extensive reps with the first team through OTAs and Mini-Camp. Having a home-grown option to compete with the other offseason additions at NT is definitely a positive.

 

Also, some food for thought on the D-Hall debate: With his comments about not wanting to push it and his availability even for week 1 being in question, it sounds like he is a prime candidate to be stashed on IR with the designation to return. He would still be able to provide his most valuable asset at this point of his career (veteran leadership), and give us some flexibility with the apparent log-jam we have at safety for a few weeks. It could mean Will Blackmon makes the initial roster and eventually gets bumped off by Hall. Getting as creative as possible to keep as much talent as we can will hopefully give us much needed insurance against injuries. Or at the very least give us extra time to let the depth chart shake itself out while we see what we have in other players.

 

I think we ultimately go 5 deep at safety with a younger guy like Fish Smithson getting stashed on the PS. 

[goskins10]

6 hours ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

Great to hear a developmental guy like Mbu is seeing extensive reps with the first team through OTAs and Mini-Camp. Having a home-grown option to compete with the other offseason additions at NT is definitely a positive.

 

Also, some food for thought on the D-Hall debate: With his comments about not wanting to push it and his availability even for week 1 being in question, it sounds like he is a prime candidate to be stashed on IR with the designation to return. He would still be able to provide his most valuable asset at this point of his career (veteran leadership), and give us some flexibility with the apparent log-jam we have at safety for a few weeks. It could mean Will Blackmon makes the initial roster and eventually gets bumped off by Hall. Getting as creative as possible to keep as much talent as we can will hopefully give us much needed insurance against injuries. Or at the very least give us extra time to let the depth chart shake itself out while we see what we have in other players.

 

I think we ultimately go 5 deep at safety with a younger guy like Fish Smithson getting stashed on the PS. 

 

Just a procedural correction - they do not have to designate someone to return in advance anymore. This means if they have several players on IR they can bring the one back that heals faster or is needed at the time, instead of having to make that decision when they go on IR.

 

I also believe starting this year, they can actually bring 2 players back from IR.  

[skinny21]

^^ Missed the fact that you don't need to designate anymore... I like it. 

[TheGreek1973]

On 6/15/2017 at 0:55 PM, wilco_holland said:

 

Isn't that impossible? What I read about both guys I think neither van bring what DHall does. He is that deep safety with ability to cover slot guys and be an emergency outside corner. The other guys are more SS and maybe hybrid LB guys. 

 

I really question this years later round picks. We picked so many DB's that I have no clue where you gonna stick 'm on the rosters.

 

We have 18 DB's 

 

CB -> pick 5

Norman

Breeland

Moreau 

Fuller 

Dunbar

Holsey

Philips

Homer 

 

S -> pick 4 

Cravens 

Young 

Nicolas 

Hall

Swearinger

Smithson

Everett

Wolf 

Blackmon

Evans 

 

Now pick 1 extra guy, you can choose from either group.

 

Thats what you gonna carry on the rosters probally. I would go Norman, Breeland, Fuller, Moreau, Dunbar, Cravens, Swearinger, Everett, Blackmon, Nicolas. (Not sure about last three. Some give better depth...some give better special team play) 

 

 

 

its going to come down who can play Special Teams.  A few may clear waivers and we can stash them in the PS.  We have the same situation with the RBs.  if Marshal and Brown flash in preseason what do you do?  We know Johns is gone but do we carry 4 or 3 RBs?