The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We've never drafted BPA. That's a myth.

 

Unless you've been privy to Macs boards the last two years I don't know how any of us could definitively say that. 

 

But previously, that's a large part as to why our roster never has any quality depth. You consistently draft BPA the top 3 rounds, even if you're stacked in a position, you're continually improving your roster significantly. Then fill out for need 4 through 7. 

 

You can never not add enough quality. 

 

Hail. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

I think Pryor is gonna get the Dan treatment.. they won't let him leave the building without a signature and stuffing his pockets full of money.

 

A lot is riding on Doctson's heel.

 

~Bang

And Reeds head

[justice98]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

And I also think the status quo makes it less attractive for Kirk to come back.  The irony I doubt is lost on Kirk that SF is loading up on playmakers while the Redskins are de-loading.

 

But even right now, I'd take the Skins weapons over SF, even with them getting Garcon and Goodwin, apparently.  

[theTruthTeller]

3 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

You say that like the Oakland and Dallas defenses were really good. Oakland was equally as bad as ours and while Dallas was excellent against the run, they were worse than us against the pass. 

One of the reasons Dallas was "excellent" against the run is that they played 10 of 16 games against teams that didn't run the ball all that much (#20 or above on attempts).

 

My bigger concern is that McClain played on less than 45% of the defensive snaps.  McGee played on 21% of Oakland's snaps.  That's a lot of money for part time players.  Baker played on over 70% of Washington's snaps.

[SkinssRvA]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The thing about the draft is you can't do everything.  It's a deep draft for RB, WR, TE, CB, S, MLB, edge rusher.  Arguably we can use a player at all those positions (with maybe the exception of TE) and also NT-DE.    I don't mind the DT FA signings so far but see them as good depth, rotational guys not major impact ones.   If they don't sign an impact guy, then you likely got to hope you find one in the draft, if you don't trust Breeland as your #2 guy, its a perfect draft to find another corner.  It's one of the best drafts ever for RB.    At some point, something has to give where they aren't going to fill all needs in the draft, the math just doesn't add up. 

 

My key point on the Wr situation is this.  They were the third best team in the division last year.  Their #1 strength was the passing game.  Being the first team in NFL history to lose two 1000 yard receivers in the same off season makes them weaker.  Eagles signing Jeffrey, T. Smith and the Giants signing Marshall -- arguably makes the Redskins the team with the worst receiving corp in the division.  So what are they hanging their hat on?  Their division rivals have now surpassed them as for passing weapons and the kicker is the Eagles and Giants defense is better than ours by a mile.  And their running game is at least in par with ours.  So what's left?  To me it spells at present time the Redskins are the worst team in the division.  You have to start fixing that IMO.

I got you man. Your points are all valid. The solution however can't be to worry about other teams and sign players just to keep pace. We have to do what's best for US. Like I said, I'm fine if we sign Pryor he has potential. But to give him boat loads of money in a rash FO overreaction to signings elsewhere...well, that's just bad business. 

[justice98]

5 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We've never drafted BPA. That's a myth.

 

 

Agreed. I've always thought that.

[chaught76]

If we are going to go WR early or heavy(multiple picks) in the draft, I would expect for us to make a strong push for one of the high end FA DTs.  Personally, I am still leaning toward Foster or Cunningham OR trading back from 17.  Regardless, we have a lot needs especially on the defensive side of the ball and we need a strong talent injection besides Kerrigan, Norman, and Smith.  I hope are FA acquisitions are supplementing our draft strategy for this year.

 

[justice98]

Just now, theTruthTeller said:

One of the reasons Dallas was "excellent" against the run is that they played 10 of 16 games against teams that didn't run the ball all that much (#20 or above on attempts).

 

My bigger concern is that McClain played on less than 45% of the defensive snaps.  McGee played on 21% of Oakland's snaps.  That's a lot of money for part time players.  Baker played on over 70% of Washington's snaps.

 

And Dallas dominated TOP on offense, thus helping the defense.  Fewer plays on defense, and when they were on defense, they usually had a lead to work with..

[Est.1974]

CLE offered Pryor 8 or 9 mil and that's gone on Britt. They have the cap space to match and better the offer we can make. But to be fair to them they've made a few good calls in FA so to getting stupid over Pryor doesn't fit with what they are doing.

 

We on the other hand need to close the deal 5/60mil range and forget about DJax in #11

[carex]

14 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

It SHOULD be BPA available. But with someone running this who's shown he let's personal feelings override anything else with the players already here, Hell knows what he'd do if he got fixated on someone he liked?

 

Hail. 

 

it should be BPA at a position of need.  And no one actually goes BPA exclusively otherwise you'd see more teams with a starting QB drafting one

4 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

One of the reasons Dallas was "excellent" against the run is that they played 10 of 16 games against teams that didn't run the ball all that much (#20 or above on attempts).

 

My bigger concern is that McClain played on less than 45% of the defensive snaps.  McGee played on 21% of Oakland's snaps.  That's a lot of money for part time players.  Baker played on over 70% of Washington's snaps.

 

cause they had no one else

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

True. I'm as pissed at the front office as anyone, but we need to remain calm when it comes to free agency. Overpaying for unknown potential is not smart. The difference with desean and Norman when we splashed big was that they were known, high performing players. 

 

If we sign him tho, we can run the wildcat!! 

 

Don't know where the unknown potential stuff is coming from.  You'd think the dude is some flier-experiment.  This wouldn't be an off beat signing.  The dude is in the top 10 in just about every FA list on the planet right now -- it would be a mainstream signing.   We don't have to wonder if he can play WR.   He had a big year and had arguably the worst QB play in the league.  This wouldn't be like signing Randle El.   They probably pay $11 million to $12 million a year, and if it were me I would do it.   Again, IMO you could not be weaker than your division rivals at just about every position and hope to win the division.  Maintaining at the moment the weakest defense in the division coupled with being leapfrogged on passing weapons is a big deal IMO.  

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-how-the-cleveland-browns-can-compete-in-2017/

Offseason to-do list

Looking at the offseason to-do list for the Browns, keeping both Collins and WR Terrelle Pryor is essential. Pryor has made an incredible transition from failed backup quarterback to legitimate receiving threat out wide; opposing defenses often roll coverage to his side to limit the damage the former Ohio State Buckeye can do. Currently owning the league’s 14th-highest overall grade among WRs, there is no telling what a stable QB situation could do for Pryor’s production.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2695642

",,,it’s worth reflecting on what Terrelle Pryor just achieved—the Browns wideout recorded 1,007 receiving yards on 77 catches as a converted QB. When I visited Browns camp this summer, Pryor was a curiosity, and I was impressed with how natural he looked as a receiver. Once the regular season got under way, though, he quickly became the team’s unquestioned No. 1 WR, and spent the year dealing with a revolving door at QB. Pryor has big potential and proved this season that he is a legitimate receiving threat at this level, something that seemed like pure wishful thinking before 2016."

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

6 minutes ago, carex said:

 

it should be BPA at a position of need.  And no one actually goes BPA exclusively otherwise you'd see more teams with a starting QB drafting one

 

 

 

Don't agree. It's not smart to start adding in need. Teams like Seattle get deep rosters across the board by employing a straight up BPA philosophy. Particularly the top 3 rounds. 

 

When you draft thinking for need, you'll end up passing on more talented players for the sake of short-term fixes. And those misses get magnified as you also limit your own flexibility with trade options as pieces fall. 

 

The smartest of teams/ GM's with the deepest of rosters opt for BPA over need the first 2/3 rounds. 

 

But we aren't that smart and it continually shows with our roster when injuries hit. 

 

Hail. 

[carex]

Just now, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Don't agree. It's not smart to start adding in need. Teams like Seattle get deep rosters across the board by employing a straight up BPA philosophy. Particularly the top 3 rounds. 

 

When draft thinking for need, you'll end up passing on more talented players for the sake of short-term fixes. And those misses get magnified as you also limit your own flexibility with trade options as pieces fall. 

 

The smartest of teams/ GM's with the deepest of rosters opt for BPA over need the first 2/3 rounds. 

 

But we aren't that smart and it continually shows with our roster when injuries hit. 

 

Hail. 

 

and how do you counter my claim about QBs?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

7 minutes ago, carex said:

 

and how do you counter my claim about QBs?

 

 

 

 

 

There's nothing to counter. QB's are a complete separate entity and  law unto themselves. Teams will repeatedly overreach for them as there's so few around and their value gets completely skewed by desperate teams searching for that elusive stud at the most important position on the team. 

 

There's  barely a first round talent worthy QB this draft. Yet you could well end up with 2 going top 5. QB is a completely separate situation by the mere nature of it's importance. 

 

Hail. 

[JWB]

Figured we would be hearing news of a signing already. Probably means now that our offer isn't what he is looking for.

 

If not him then hopefully we pivot to Hankins.

[SkinssRvA]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know where the unknown potential stuff is coming from.  You'd think the dude is some flier-experiment....

The guy was routinely clowned by opposition corners.  He had a terrible catch-to-target rate.  He was the definition of boom or bust if you look at his game logs.  He had 4 touchdowns, so the theory that he's some amazing redzone threat is just that, a theory.  He's got things you can't teach: speed, height, weight, athleticism.  But he's a stiff route runner and fairly slow out of his breaks (things you would expect from a first year WO). A lot of time needs to be spent refining his game in order to make him a true WR1 in my book.  

 

So, IMO, I'm still considering him unkown as far as potential.  

[Peregrine]

A guy who converted to WR, AMD played for the Browns, receiving passes from Hoyer, RG3, and that other dude, and still got over 1000 yards? His potential might just be a 2000 yard receiver!

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, SkinssRvA said:

I got you man. Your points are all valid. The solution however can't be to worry about other teams and sign players just to keep pace. We have to do what's best for US. Like I said, I'm fine if we sign Pryor he has potential. But to give him boat loads of money in a rash FO overreaction to signings elsewhere...well, that's just bad business. 

 

I get your point.  And lets take this off Pryor so for you if its all about him, that's cool. 

 

To explain my point:  if you look at every deal more from the framework as to how can I get the best value versus the best player -- we've seen it burns you.   This team has stunk in FA in recent years with that approach.  Signing K. Reyes on the cheap last season you can see as a value low risk deal.  He had a down year the season before but maybe he plays like he did 2 years back, and they got him cheap.  So what a find if it works out!   Ziggy Hood, too.  Same story.  Hood worked out, Reyes didn't.  They were value signings but they still had a weak D line.  The Giants on the other hand "overpaid" for a 2 down NT in Damon Harrison, "overpaid" for a DE in O. Vernon, and paid J. Jenkins as if we was one of the best corners in the league.  We all know how that turned out.  They are now trying to turn their offense (their weakness) into a strength and started that with an aggressive signing.   The Giants aren't going value but going high end and they leapfrogged us as the better team because they simply have better players.  

 

Lets say now we sign K. Wright but got him at great value.  We get him at 4 million a year, fantastic! 

But the bottom line would still be, the Giants receiving corp is Brandon Marshall, OBJ and Shephard.  The Eagles:  Matthews, T. Smith, A. Jeffrey.  And the verdict from that is likely:  yes their receivers are better than ours, yes they are more loaded at other positions too.  Yes, they even had a better record.  But gosh we got K. Wright at better value -- and can you believe the Eagles paid $14 million dollars for Jeffrey!  It wouldn't make me feel any better thinking about that stuff when I watch the Giants in the playoffs and we are plotting the next off season in November because the season is shot.

 

In short, going back to my earlier analogy, I don't want another off season of paying $4 for 7 Big Macs. I'd rather pay $25 for three steaks.  Value isn't my top concern. My top concern is we cannot afford to have the division rivals have better players.  People bemoan the last week loss to the Giants.  But to me watching it the Giants "overpaid" D line just overwhelmed the Redskins.  They are just better.  They got better players.  Jenkins might have been overpaid but he's a better corner than Breeland.  Thanks to FA, the Giants have now two shut down corners, better pass rush, and can stop the run.  All of that wasn't the case before the 2016 FA spending spree.  If the Giants signed 5 Stacy McGee types last season would they have improved to that degree, IMO no way.

[RemoveSnyder]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

A lot is riding on Doctson's heel.

55 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

And Reeds head

 

And Rabach's high butt. 

 

...Eh, can't win em all. 

 

 

 

[wilco_holland]

What is the alternative from Pryor?

 

These are the guys I found. You can maybe sign a bunch of them for some low end deal and hope one works out. 

 

Potential, no production:
Cordarrelle Patterson
Justin Hunter
Marquess Wilson

Mentaly not stable guys:
Michael Floyd
Kendall Wright
Josh Gordon

Some over the hill vets:
Dwayne Bowe
James Jones
Vincent Jackson
Stevie Johnson
Marques Colston
Hakeem Nicks
Brandon Tate

Don't know what group he belongs:

Terrance Williams

 

Guys like Wilson, Wright and Hunter are interesting to me. I have seen stuff in college from these guys that makes me see potential. They have physical ability to be great...but not the mental. So would that change here? 

 

I.m.o. we need to find at least one decent outside reciever that's currently not on the roster. You can not go into the season with Docton as outside guy. Crowder as inside guy and hope Harris stepts up for the other outside spot. 

 

[Taylor703]

The talent just being absolutely wasted between Floyd and Gordon is astonishing. The same goes for Justin Blackman who's more talented than either of them. Just mind blowing. 

[SkinssRvA]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

...In short, going back to my earlier analogy, I don't want another off season of paying $4 for 7 Big Macs. I'd rather pay $25 for three steaks.  Value isn't my top concern. My top concern is we cannot afford to have the division rivals have better players.  People bemoan the last week loss to the Giants.  But to me watching it the Giants "overpaid" D line just overwhelmed the Redskins.  They are just better.  They got better players.  Jenkins might have been overpaid but he's a better corner than Breeland.  Thanks to FA, the Giants have now two shut down corners, better pass rush, and can stop the run.  All of that wasn't the case before the 2016 FA spending spree.  If the Giants signed 5 Stacy McGee types last season would they have improved to that degree, IMO no way.

There's a real difference with the Giants though.  They are in a "win now" mode with Eli coming to the end of his career.  In a few years their cap dealings will have them in trouble.  

 

Again, I hear what you're saying.  My point wasn't about spending money on high cost players.  We've done it with Desean and Norman and I liked both moves.  My point was specific to Pryor.  All I'm saying is let's see what kind of money he wants.  A line has to be drawn in the sand for someone like him (27 YO with Raw potential).  If, say, AJ Green had been cut and we were hosting him I'd be ready to overpay because we know his production floor and ceiling.  I just don't think it's prudent to look at the Eagles and say that because they have spent x amount, we in turn also need to spend x amount no matter who the player is (that's hyperbole, I know you're not saying that).  

[clskinsfan]

I wouldnt mind kicking the tires on Patterson. At least he gives you some serious return skills to go along with him at WR. 

[nonniey]

7 hours ago, wvuredskinsfan82 said:

People are probably going by the stats. Baker's were better than these lineman we signed.

Damned right we are, and it is not only us that go by performance on the field, pretty sure 30 to 31 of the NFL GMs go by that too to determine how much they are going to pay a prospective free agent acquisition (Allen being the 1 or 2 that don't).

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, SkinssRvA said:

There's a real difference with the Giants though.  They are in a "win now" mode with Eli coming to the end of his career.  In a few years their cap dealings will have them in trouble.  

 

Again, I hear what you're saying.  My point wasn't about spending money on high cost players.  We've done it with Desean and Norman and I liked both moves.  My point was specific to Pryor.  All I'm saying is let's see what kind of money he wants.  A line has to be drawn in the sand for someone like him (27 YO with Raw potential).  If, say, AJ Green had been cut and we were hosting him I'd be ready to overpay because we know his production floor and ceiling.  I just don't think it's prudent to look at the Eagles and say that because they have spent x amount, we in turn also need to spend x amount no matter who the player is (that's hyperbole, I know you're not saying that).  

 

I get your point, so you are willing to spend big not just on him.   I actually like Pryor so I'd be willing to spend on the dude.   The Redskins IMO right now lost two major players and one good one.  I was hoping that they'd come out of FA stronger not weaker.  At the moment IMO they have gotten weaker so far in FA.   the Giants and Eagles IMO have gotten better.  I am not panicking about it.  But I've had enough of the Big Mac signings.  Go get 2 marquee players IMO.

 

As for the Giants all three players are young enough, so I doubt they regret those signings as to the future.