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Jay Gruden: Buy or Sell


SWFLSkins

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8 hours ago, MontanaSkins said:

I want to see how the team reacts to the big blow up he had after the game. If they respond it means he has the respect of the team, if they **** the bed again we know he has lost them. 

 

This morning as I wake up I've looked at the Asia markets and will move from a soft Sell to a Hold for now, with a keen eye to the competitive indicators. 

 

Still not enamored with overall Game Mgt., Playcalling, as I have said since the first year, very concerned with Jay's feel for the game. Have not seen the growth and improvement I'd had hoped for this year. But it would be counter productive to forego another possible year without supplying some more capital.

 

I'd love to see some reinvestment in the D, both in Management and front line, mid-level management.

 

Looking for some decent returns on my time investment.  

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I think this is an excellent question!!!

 

It's also one I'm not yet prepared to answer, although I admit that I do go back and forth during games as I watch Gruden make decisions that leave me scratching deep ridges in my head.  

 

How much credit do you give him for a dynamic offense that moves the ball virtually at will between the 20s?  How much credit do you give him for Kirk Cousins' mostly very good QB play?  How much blame do you give him for the offense's putrid display in the red zone?  And finally how much blame do you give him for a generally putrid defense?  I honestly don't know.

 

My final answer:  undecided...for now. 

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10 hours ago, zoony said:

Buy

 

But i hope McVay gets called on for a HC position and a new DCoord is promoted or brought in

This.

 

As much credit as McVay is getting for this offense, I'm just losing my mind with redzone playcalling.  I can't take it anymore.:chair:

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10 hours ago, zoony said:

Buy

 

But i hope McVay gets called on for a HC position and a new DCoord is promoted or brought in

 

This is where I'm at.

 

I adore Gruden, but I'm not sure I care for McVay nor do I care for Barry.

 

How often do we have better qualified position coaches on a staff for coordinators?

 

On offense Callahan could call a good offense as could Jay.

 

On defense, you name it.

 

I don't want to sacrifice the product on the field at the expense of grooming a 29 year old for the future of someone else's team. 

 

We also need a legit person in the booth looking at replays for challenges.

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6 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

This is where I'm at.

 

I adore Gruden, but I'm not sure I care for McVay nor do I care for Barry.

 

How often do we have better qualified position coaches on a staff for coordinators?

 

On offense Callahan could call a good offense as could Jay.

 

On defense, you name it.

 

I don't want to sacrifice the product on the field at the expense of grooming a 29 year old for the future of someone else's team. 

 

We also need a legit person in the booth looking at replays for challenges.

Promote Olivadotti and Callahan and keep continuity imo. 

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4 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

This isn't to excuse the personnel deficincies on the defensive side of the football, but as @BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said, Barry had a bad rep and hasn't done himself any favors.

I agree and I'd even be fine with keeping him another year, if we fix the talent. I think there's only so much you can do when you're trying to protect half your personnel.

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I want this team to ride with Gruden. He has the blend of skills that I think will work for this team. He's an alpha male and seems confident in what he can do. He backs his players, but isn't afraid to let them know when he expects more out of them. He's also designed and implemented a pretty incredible offense. It wasn't too long ago that scoring mid-20s or more in a game seemed ridiculously out of reach for this team. 

 

Obviously, I think he needs to be held accountable for the defense as well. If Barry isn't the right guy, then it's on Gruden to do the right thing. By the way, I have no idea how much of our struggles are coaching vs. personnel. On one hand, I have to imagine Barry could be doing more. On the other hand, I am pretty convinced that we have 3-5 starters on defense who would struggle to stick on 25 NFL rosters. 

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25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Promote Olivadotti and Callahan and keep continuity imo. 

 

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree and I'd even be fine with keeping him another year, if we fix the talent. I think there's only so much you can do when you're trying to protect half your personnel.

 

You also have Greg Manusky on staff..... But I like the idea of shaking it up and trying someone else. Certainly Callahan has outcoached any other position coach on the team. 

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19 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I agree and I'd even be fine with keeping him another year, if we fix the talent. I think there's only so much you can do when you're trying to protect half your personnel.

 

I don't think you can keep Barry another year.  Too many players and the head coach have given him a tongue lashing on camera.

 

I'm just saying that I know we have limitations, but after yesterday I have nothing to defend Barry with anymore.  That was ridiculous to allow that many third and longs and not turnover a team that was serving up lollipops each of the last 4 weeks. 

 

The template is out. Run the football and you will keep Kirk off the field.  Kirk will also need to score literally every time we have the ball or we will lose the game.

3 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

 

You also have Greg Manusky on staff..... But I like the idea of shaking it up and trying someone else. Certainly Callahan has outcoached any other position coach on the team. 

 

Yeah I think I said as soon as we signed Manusky that he was the dude in waiting.  Hopefully you're right.

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12 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

I'd be fine with riding with Gruden longer. But not Barry. Also, they need to bring in help for their scheming. They respond by acknowledging redzone issues by doing the same stuff? That's insanity. 

 

Save for the fade they had some different looks yesterday, which was a plus.  Shame on the procedure penalty cause that PA to Rob Kelley was an outstanding call even though he dropped it.

 

I honestly think Jay or Callahan took over play calling in the red zone in the 4th quarter against Dallas cause it's all looked different since.

 

There is still obviously room to improve.  But it's a little unfair to put anything on the offense after yesterday.

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It feels like we have no choice but to buy.  Kirk and Jay are kind of tied at the hip.  The only way we don't buy Jay is if we also don't buy Kirk.  I simply can't see that happening.

 

I just really hope he's learning that he's only as good as the guys he employs and makes a change at DC.  I expect to see an influx of talent this offseason on the defensive side of the ball and would prefer a different mind be in charge of it.

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Gruden is not a terrible coach but I also don't think he the type that can help a team win unless it's full with talent. Not many coaches are and he falls in line with the majority there. He relies on the pass way to much and seems to get worse with time management each year. I'm not even sure he can evaluate talent that well. Niles Paul over Reed, Jones over Kelly, Kory over Long. Though he did seem to want Kirk over RG3, which seems to be a major + points for him. I just don't know how to feel about him. If we had been a winning organization, I'd probably ditch him. I think because we've been through so much choas, I'm inclined to keep him just for the sake of continuity. 

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I'd stay the course -- this team continues to get better each season, and let's remember that Gruden inherited somewhat of a mess, and a bare cupboard, talent-wise.

 

Also, I think the team's organization has improved under Gruden/Allen/McCloughan to the point that it can and will attract good free agent coaches and players going forward..  

 

Gruden's been a part of that transformation.  So I think he should get a full 5 years.

 

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Absolutely buy. I could use some help here... McVay is calling the plays. So, why is it on Gruden for the "poor clock management" and red zone numbers? His only fault in my eyes is the hiring and not firing of Berry.

The guy has designed an excellent, efficient offense; fewest 3&outs in the league. It's amazing how overzealous this fanbase has gotten. We've come so far with Gruden/McClu/McVay/Cousins, yet every time something goes wrong the answer is to fire someone. Just remember where we used to be.

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It's the younger generation that play way too much Madden and the fantasy foosball stuff focusing too much on their fantasy players doing well and their fantasy teams doing well that they expect the Redskins to do well..ugghh.. the only coach that needs to go is Barry, I am way sick and tired of seeing third-and-longs being converted I mean when you have a team at 3rd and 15 +  no way they're going to get the first down right? they do on us every time.. and it's about sickening, I believe the only thing that has kept him around is players here and they're making big plays to win the game Preston Smith, Josh Norman.. he has called only a couple decent defensive games the rest have been trash.

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2 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

 

Still not enamored with overall Game Mgt., Playcalling, as I have said since the first year, very concerned with Jay's feel for the game. Have not seen the growth and improvement I'd had hoped for this year. But it would be counter productive to forego another possible year without supplying some more capital.

 

I'd love to see some reinvestment in the D, both in Management and front line, mid-level management.

 

Looking for some decent returns on my time investment.  

Me personally, Ive seen a lot of growth from Gruden and McVay. Last season, with Kirk running the offense, the league got to see what Gruden/McVay want to do on offense. The league adjusted and very quickly, Gruden/McVay did a counter adjustment which has us with one of the best offenses in the league. 

 

This offense is not a fluke. It is not an offense that D Coordinators havent tried to shut down. Its not an offense that doesnt have enough film out. 

 

Ive seen hurry up this year, didnt see that last year. I havent seen another coach shut down our offense with second half adjustments. 

 

Ive seen Gruden/McVay stick with the run when they were averaging very little. Ive seen Gruden/McVay switch from a young second year 3rd round pick RB to an undrafted rookie RB. Ive seen Gruden/McVay still run their offense when DJax and Reed were out of the game. Ive seen Gruden/McVay constantly using and putting second year player Jamison Crowder in a position to win. 

 

Gruden/McVay bring a proven legit top 5 NFL offense. That is elite. Its not an accident or luck. 

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