Jay Gruden: Buy or Sell

[ThomasRoane]

Buy.  Jay is the right kind of coach for this generation of players.  He knows when to be tough and when to back off.  They appreciate that. He has enough knowledge to keep every phase of the game (Offense, Defense, and Teams) on target.

 

This Defense is woefully lacking in talent and a killer instinct.  The lack of speed on that side of the ball is glaring.  As a Coach, I can't put that all on the defensive staff.  Players are in position to make plays but lack the ability to do so.  What else can a coach do?

 

SM has a lot of work to do next year in bringing in some ballers.  Cause right now the Defense has only one player who can win every week.  And that's Norman.  If the pressure is on anyone it should be on our GM.  Thus far, I'm not overly impressed on the defensive side of the ball.  Neither Preston Smith, Ioannidis, nor Fuller can be counted on week to week.  The free agents SM brought in (aside from Norman) have been a mixed bag as well.  Foster, Blackmon, Ziggy and Ricky Jean have been good (not great).  But guys like Bruton Jr, Whitner, Reyes, Paea, Jeron Johnson, and Goldson were all average or below average. 

 

I know last year's draft was weak for defense and you should always go BPA.  Regardless, SM needs to find some way to add some talent to that side of the ball and quickly.  He's the only one who should be on the hot seat. 

[Burgold]

8 minutes ago, PigskinRedskin said:

Very interesting tweet:

 

 

Why do we always stop running? I know sometimes you got to do what the defenses give you but continuing to wear down the defense even if it's for 2-3 yards, it does help. The outlier being the Lions game where we rushed over 20 times and still lost, but the other losses we've all rushed under 20 times. Mix in some more bootlegs and screens would definitely help out. 

What gets me is when this team gives up on the run before even trying it or worse... they give up even though its working. Kelly's first rushing attempt was 16 yards or so... his next run was almost a quarter later. 

 

I'm not sure if that's strictly true, but it felt like it. They ran no more than once or twice a series even on 12 play marches.

[ThomasRoane]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

What gets me is when this team gives up on the run before even trying it or worse... they give up even though its working. Kelly's first rushing attempt was 16 yards or so... his next run was almost a quarter later. 

 

I'm not sure if that's strictly true, but it felt like it. They ran no more than once or twice a series even on 12 play marches.

 

And, the RZ issue would improve if we can start running more on the goal line.  It's like they forget that Fat Rob can break a tackle.  The threat of the run opens up play action which is the easiest way to score. 

[PigskinRedskin]

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

What gets me is when this team gives up on the run before even trying it or worse... they give up even though its working. Kelly's first rushing attempt was 16 yards or so... his next run was almost a quarter later. 

 

I'm not sure if that's strictly true, but it felt like it. They ran no more than once or twice a series even on 12 play marches.

 

Yeah, Kelley stat line from yesterday was 14 rushes for 63 yards for an average of 4.5 yards...that's a good average especially against the #1 defense...so why in the world do we abandon it? Especially when we lost the left side of the O-Line, design some sweeps to the right, use Vernon to block.

[DC9]

1 hour ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Can someone tell me the last time Gruden benched someone?    Besides RG3, I can't think of one player that was benched for performance.....only time there's a change is if there's an injury.

 

They defacto benched both Bruton and Lichtensteiger.

 

They put Bruton on IR for a concussion after he'd already been cleared and they couldn't have tried harder to get Kory's replacement before they basically did the same thing to him.

[goskins10]

15 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Exactly

 

Not sure you can say that yet right? First, until TW was out who knew just how good Ty was at LT. And we don't know what will happen when TW comes back.

 

It's easy for us fans to say - move him - play him there - cut him - bench him, fire him. But we are not in the locker room. There is so much that goes into all of this. Just need to have some patience. It's clear I am very much in the minority but that's OK. Used to it by now.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Just now, DC9 said:

 

They defacto benched both Bruton and Lichtensteiger.

 

They put Bruton on IR for a concussion after he'd already been cleared and they couldn't have tried harder to get Kory's replacement before they basically did the same thing to him.

 

Again, you are talking about guys who were not replaced until injury.

 

P.S.   Better defense....Skins or Liverpool?

Just now, goskins10 said:

 

Not sure you can say that yet right? First, until TW was out who knew just how good Ty was at LT. And we don't know what will happen when TW comes back.

 

It's easy for us fans to say - move him - play him there - cut him - bench him, fire him. But we are not in the locker room. There is so much that goes into all of this. Just need to have some patience. It's clear I am very much in the minority but that's OK. Used to it by now.

 

I'm not saying TW should have played LG prior to his suspension....but now that we see that Nsheke can play well at LT and Lavauo sucks at LG, moving Trent to LG for the rest of this year is the way to go.    Gruden said Trent is playing LT.

[DC9]

1 minute ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Again, you are talking about guys who were not replaced until injury.

 

P.S.   Better defense....Skins or Liverpool?

 

If you REALLY believe that Matt Jones was injured I have ocean front property in Nebraska I'd like to interest you in.

Lichtensteiger was a time thing.  They were trying like heck to get his replacement in.  It took the injury to give Long a chance, yes.

[LaxBuddy21]

I still don't get the run just because mentality. The offense moves ball. Stick with what works. I do agree we should run more in the red zone. It may or may not help but we have to do something to mix it up and keep teams off balance. I am just concerned that we don't have that impose your will type line so when our receivers aren't a threat to go down field, it's easy to stack the box. The threat will open play action though. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Just now, DC9 said:

 

If you REALLY believe that Matt Jones was injured I have ocean front property in Nebraska I'd like to interest you in.

Lichtensteiger was a time thing.  They were trying like heck to get his replacement in.  It took the injury to give Long a chance, yes.

 

If Gruden needed to say that he was injured (even if he wasn't) in order to replace Jones; then what does that say about Gruden?

[goskins10]

6 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Again, you are talking about guys who were not replaced until injury.

 

P.S.   Better defense....Skins or Liverpool?

 

I'm not saying TW should have played LG prior to his suspension....but now that we see that Nsheke can play well at LT and Lavauo sucks at LG, moving Trent to LG for the rest of this year is the way to go.    Gruden said Trent is playing LT.

 

Lets see what actually happens. He is not going to announce his plans. Again, he has the entire locker room to consider. Would not be surprised either way. I personally would like to see what the line looks like with TW at LG. Of course, we do not know how injured Moses. They may move Ty to RT and therefore you can't put TW at LT.

 

Again, we just need to see what actually happens.

[Suffolk_Skins]

We might not agree with everything he does and he is still a relatively young head coach who is growing and learning but Is this really a thread? Gruden is an offensive guy, we need to sure up a few issues on that side of the ball but overall it's coming along very nicely. If he was a defensive minded coach we might be having a different conversation.

 

Also if you're buying Kirk you're buying Jay as well. 

 

Sorry but this is stupid.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, -JB- said:

People seem to forget that the Cardinals won 13 games last year & played in the NFC title game.  Not having the same success this season, however, still a potent team with big playmakers on both sides of the ball.  Hard to win on their turf. Buy Gruden, for now.  We'll reexamine things after the season.

I kept telling myself that Fitz is a first ballot HoFer and David Johnson is the guy we probably wanted to replace Alf, before we blew it with big softy during the game, but ya know what?

 

Even us idiot fans knew they were going to only use those two. In the middle. All game long. Yet here we are. Back to back loses and backing out of the playoffs against a team that's beat nobody.

 

It's seriously just not good enough.

[skins island connection]

 Kelly has the ability to be a very good RB.

Its how Gruden is using him, especially in RZ plays. When we get down to the 2 or 3 yd line, Gruden calls that useless pointless and ineffective bunch formation, then wants Kelley to try and run through it. I get so pissed every single time I see this. He knows we're not a strong running team, he knows the line can't block for running plays nearly as good as passing plays, so why does he strill call them? It seems as if he's running off a script, an ABC of red zone plays.

 

For once, I'd like to see them get down to the 3-4, on 1st downs, send in a 3 rec. set or 2 & double TE set, spread them out, THEN give it to Kelley; spread the damn defense out and i'll guarantee it will work like a charm. But no, he just mails it in to the defenses that we're gonna try, again, with the bunch formation, only to fail, again.  That, I do have problems with him on.

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

If Gruden needed to say that he was injured (even if he wasn't) in order to replace Jones; then what does that say about Gruden?

 

What he says behind closed doors - is not always going to be the  same thing he says to the media. He had an out. He used it. The goal was not to destroy Jones. If you call it out as a benching you are saying you are done with him. Why not take the out and let Jones keep some self respect? Maybe he comes back.

[DC9]

4 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

If Gruden needed to say that he was injured (even if he wasn't) in order to replace Jones; then what does that say about Gruden?

 

That says he's backing up his players.

 

"Jones just fumbled it three times in one game, but what you guys don't know is that he's nicked up," sounds a lot better than "Jones just cost us a win with all of his fumbles and if we need a tie-breaker at the end of the season it won't come from this game."

 

You're a goober, Goober...

4 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

We might not agree with everything he does and he is still a relatively young head coach who is growing and learning but Is this really a thread? Gruden is an offensive guy, we need to sure up a few issues on that side of the ball but overall it's coming along very nicely. If he was a defensive minded coach we might be having a different conversation.

 

Also if you're buying Kirk you're buying Jay as well. 

 

Sorry but this is stupid.

 

Best thing ever Bury ever did for football was allow you to make this statement.

Everyone is in here pushing their agenda, just like every other thread lol

[SkinsPassion4Life]

You guys are grasping at straws trying to defend Jay.      Jones is now a healthy scratch....he could have been a healthy scratch after the Lions game, instead of Gruden saying he was hurt.

 

 

[PigskinRedskin]

3 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

You guys are grasping at straws trying to defend Jay.      Jones is now a healthy scratch....he could have been a healthy scratch after the Lions game, instead of Gruden saying he was hurt.

 

 

 

We're defending Jay because he's actually doing a good job and like @Suffolk_Skins mentioned, Jay is an offensive mind and our offense is considered #2 in Total Offense according to NFL.com and if he were a defensive mind, it might be different. 

Maybe Jones was ailing from soreness, wanted to give Rob a go, Rob proved himself and now Jay hasn't looked back. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Pretty much every team keeps players in longer than they probably should. At least they are being addressed at some point and just ignored.

[SkinsPassion4Life]

2 minutes ago, PigskinRedskin said:

 

We're defending Jay because he's actually doing a good job and like @Suffolk_Skins mentioned, Jay is an offensive mind and our offense is considered #2 in Total Offense according to NFL.com and if he were a defensive mind, it might be different. 

Maybe Jones was ailing from soreness, wanted to give Rob a go, Rob proved himself and now Jay hasn't looked back. I don't think it's that big of a deal. Pretty much every team keeps players in longer than they probably should. At least they are being addressed at some point and just ignored.

 

We've scored over 30 points twice this year....we can't score in the red zone.....I'm not buying what you're selling....Let's agree to disagree.

 

I said earlier, if Jay fires Barry, I'm fine with giving Jay another year....But I don't have confidence we are winning big with Jay

[Suffolk_Skins]

1 minute ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

We've scored over 30 points twice this year....we can't score in the red zone.....I'm not buying what you're selling....Let's agree to disagree.

 

I said earlier, if Jay fires Barry, I'm fine with giving Jay another year....But I don't have confidence we are winning big with Jay

 

As I said there are a few things that need to be fixed but don't try and tell me this isn't a good offense. 

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

As I said there are a few things that need to be fixed but don't try and tell me this isn't a good offense. 

I agree. I wish it were a better scoring offense though. More, I wish we'd trust the running game. We won't have a great run game this year, but we are more effective when we get a bit more balance.

[Suffolk_Skins]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

I agree. I wish it were a better scoring offense though. More, I wish we'd trust the running game. We won't have a great run game this year, but we are more effective when we get a bit more balance.

 

We should have run the ball more yesterday but over recent games we have been playing from behind too much.

[PigskinRedskin]

2 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

We've scored over 30 points twice this year....we can't score in the red zone.....I'm not buying what you're selling....Let's agree to disagree.

 

I said earlier, if Jay fires Barry, I'm fine with giving Jay another year....But I don't have confidence we are winning big with Jay

 

If you fire Jay now then the whole system more than likely gets gutted, Kirk is back to square one, who knows what happens to our receiving corp (which is ranked 3rd if I am not mistaken). Yes, our redzone is pretty crappy and doing a Fade to Jackson is down right dumb, but Jay is better than any other option and being only his 3rd year, has made this team better overall, cut out the drama and is getting a lot of his players.

 

Our offensive scoring is ranked 9th for points per game still, that's better then Packers, Steelers, Lions, Bengals, Giants, Eagles, etc...so Jay isn't the issue here. Does he have room to grow? Oh, definitely, won't argue there. Is there a reason to sell right now/end of season? No, barring getting mopped the rest of the season and scoring 0 points.

[Burgold]

I think Jay sees out his contract and should. The bigger question to me is whether he warrants a second contract. I'm leaning towards yes at the moment.  We seem to have, for the most part, fixed the offense and special teams. I am far less confident about our ability to fix the defense without significant changes... and I have my doubts that Jay will be willing to make them although he did fire his mentor Haslett.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Maybe, maybe not. I just wouldn't pin long-term decisions on smaller sample sizes. Last year the Redskins were 11th in red zone scoring and this year they are 31st. Making sweeping changes may not be the best approach. 

Stop making sense