Jay Gruden: Buy or Sell

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

 

Hope he does that better than he does defensive talent 

Reporters said he really let the team have it in the locker room. Could hear him yelling down the hall

I would say keep Gruden. I feel the guys play hard for him. I believe he has a 5 or 6 year contract and that tells me the management felt it would take 5 years to clean up the Shanahan mess so give him the time. In todays NFL you just do not fire coaches every year, unless the guy is a nightmare and JG is decent and almost a .500 coach.  Plus I do not think it is all on the head coach. I think someone, like or illustreious GM should can Joe Barry and go with a assistant the rest of the year. This will shake up the team for our last 4 games and what do we have to loose. As far as our red zone problems I feel you need a running game. Do you think JJG would throw a pass on 1st and goal form the 2? He would bring in the big boys and hand the ball to Riggings or Riggs. As far as the field goal in Dallas into the sun I ask why did we not see the sun in any of the Cowboy faces? Another thing we should remember is we were playing without J Reed and why was there no flag when he got hit in the back a full 3 seconds after the ball went over his head?

[Stevej2016]

I personally think we keep Gruden, can Berry and build on that.  Obviously offense needs to be much more agressive in the red zonebut defense man defensive needs to get out there and stop people I mean in their tracks.  

[SoulSkin]

I think you have to give him the full five years unless the wheels completely fall off next year. When he was hired, there was no glut of guys wanting to come and coach here. The reputation of an impatient, interfering owner had a lot to do with that. We finally seem to have a stable system in place and it seems to be working. It might not be at a breakneck pace, but it does seem to me like the team is progressing. He and everyone else can, and should, improve. Blowing it up at this point seems like a bad idea. The red zone fades do drive me insane though. Please make them stop. 

[SWFLSkins]

40 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

This offense is not a fluke. It is not an offense that D Coordinators havent tried to shut down. Its not an offense that doesnt have enough film out.

 

It's an offense that marches up and down the field, but fails to score TDs costing games, I liked your analogies, but in the end, winning matters.

[NoVaSkins21]

Have to Buy Gruden at this point just for the sake of continuity.  Guy does have some especially with clock management, but he does want this team to succeed.  Can't go through with another coach not finishing his contract again.  This team has to build even if they may not make the playoffs.   

[Area51]

I think Gruden is an excellent offensive mind and draws up excellent game plans.  Having said that, I am starting to doubt his ability to be the HC and leader of an elite/top tier football team.  Game in and game out, he simply makes too many bad decisions at the most critical times.  Clock management has always been an issue under Gruden, and yesterday was no different.

 

On the last Cardinals drive, they had two goals: Kill the clock and score.  So they ran on first down.  2:02 left...and Gruden decides to call a timeout.  The Cardinals, knowing that whether they run or pass on the next play, the clock WILL STOP because of the TWO MINUTE WARNING.  So they made the decision to go for the kill, as an incomplete pass wouldn't really hurt them.  And kill they did.

 

This is just one instance.  Week in and week out, Gruden "****s the bed" in critical situations.  Having Hopkins, who was on a little funk at the time, attempt a 50+ yard field goal into the glaring sun(when he couldn't see jack ****) is another example I can think of at the top of my head.  

 

He's a great X's and O's offense guy, but I don't think he's top HC material.  Also being a player's coach, players seem to play too undisciplined at times, which can be traced back to the HC and leader of our football team.  I don't think Scot is going to get rid of him, nor do I think we should get rid of him, but I just don't see us being a perennially great team with him at the helm.  

[NoCalMike]

One thing is for sure.  We are about to find out how the players feel about Gruden, his system, and whether they respect him as a coach.  Reports are that Gruden was furious with the team in the locker room after the game, and supposedly it had to do with him not being pleased the way the team prepared/practiced during the week.  He lit into them and even in his press conference he used the term "underachieve" which is something you say when you know dang well your team should have won the game.

 

They have a road game in Philly, a team that has been trending down and down and down, some even suggesting they have phoned it in knowing their season is pretty much over.  This is a team the 'Skins should go beat the brakes off of.   After the weaksauce we witnessed yesterday and Gruden's reaction, you will find out a lot about how the players feel about their head coach.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

24 minutes ago, SAli457180 said:

Have to Buy Gruden at this point just for the sake of continuity.  Guy does have some especially with clock management, but he does want this team to succeed.  Can't go through with another coach not finishing his contract again.  This team has to build even if they may not make the playoffs.   

 

To me, this post undersells Gruden. It implies that he hasn't earned 5+ years, but rather we have no choice as an organization. If we finish 2-2 down the stretch, Gruden will have overseen the best two-year run under one coach that we've seen since 1996-97. Not only that, but he's doing so after inheriting a team that went 3-13 the year before he got here and 4-12 in his first year. He's earned his job security. 

[TouchdownSkin]

I am fine to keep Gruden, but fire Barry.  McVay can go too.

[Stefanskins]

Buy

[skinfan2k]

if McVay and or Gruden is fired, Kirk Cousins is not our QB in 2017

[Hooper]

Jay is the best coach we've had since Gibbs in his prime.

 

DC is a brutal place to coach (or play QB for) for so many reasons. Ownership, insane local media, fans who keep forgetting it's been a circus for 25 years.

 

I finally feel like we are headed in the right direction and Jay has played a big part in that.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

39 minutes ago, TouchdownSkin said:

I am fine to keep Gruden, but fire Barry.  McVay can go too.

 

Only here! 

 

The rest of the NFL considers McVay a potential head coaching candidate as soon as this off-season due to the offense he's implemented in DC. We apparently want him fired as the offensive coordinator. 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Only here! 

 

The rest of the NFL considers McVay a potential head coaching candidate as soon as this off-season due to the offense he's implemented in DC. We apparently want him fired as the offensive coordinator. 

 

Yup only here...lol I would keep McVay too. But he does need to figure out why he is playing scared in the Red Zone though. As for Barry, will having another D coach going to set up back while the O is moving forward? I would give Barry another year with better players and see what happens. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, zskins said:

 

Yup only here...lol I would keep McVay too. But he does need to figure out why he is playing scared in the Red Zone though. As for Barry, will having another D coach going to set up back while the O is moving forward? I would give Barry another year with better players and see what happens. 

What exactly do you mean by "playing scared" in the red zone? Do you mean that he's too conservative? 

[Burgold]

38 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

What exactly do you mean by "playing scared" in the red zone? Do you mean that he's too conservative? 

I think they don't play scared, but too cute. They're just too in love with the shotgun formation and passing. If they at least lined up behind center there is a more honest threat of the run esp. when you have a bruiser like Kelley. Kelley is not a threat to go 40 yards, but he certainly is a threat to break a tackle and go two!

 

Their formation tips their hand too often. Defenses key on them and know their plays. Sometimes, you need to play tough, big boy football and pound it.  Make them beat you. Don't go cute... go ugly.

[TouchdownSkin]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Only here! 

 

The rest of the NFL considers McVay a potential head coaching candidate as soon as this off-season due to the offense he's implemented in DC. We apparently want him fired as the offensive coordinator. 

 

Until he can get his team into the RZ, he's replaceable to me.  The play calling there has been horrible.  I'm fine if he gets hired elsewhere

 

Not to mention, we are horribly predictable.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

11 minutes ago, TouchdownSkin said:

 

Until he can get his team into the RZ, he's replaceable to me.  The play calling there has been horrible.  I'm fine if he gets hired elsewhere.

 

Be careful what you wish for...

 

This same OC was highly successful in the red zone last year. Also, there's something to be said for getting to the red zone so frequently. 

[TouchdownSkin]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Be careful what you wish for...

 

This same OC was highly successful in the red zone last year. Also, there's something to be said for getting to the red zone so frequently. 

 

I've wished for a lot over my 30+ years as a fan.  If McVay is that good, he can right this before the season ends.  

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

I think they don't play scared, but too cute. They're just too in love with the shotgun formation and passing. If they at least lined up behind center there is a more honest threat of the run esp. when you have a bruiser like Kelley. Kelley is not a threat to go 40 yards, but he certainly is a threat to break a tackle and go two!

 

Their formation tips their hand too often. Defenses key on them and know their plays. Sometimes, you need to play tough, big boy football and pound it.  Make them beat you. Don't go cute... go ugly.

 

Or you can even say safe which might look like cute. If you are going to throw then why not just do a quick slant. I don't think I have seen one recently. You setup a look for the run but throw a screen pass or run on the outside instead of inside. We just don't do more of this. When we run on the 2 yard line we do just that up the middle and don't get in most of the times. The other teams stack it up and know you are not going to do anything special 9 out of 10 times. This is why I said scared or we can go with safely cute.

 

I don't know man something needs to happen in the RZ. Kirk keeps on saying we need to work on this on the radio every week. Not sure what is happening during the practice week that it is still an issue after 14 weeks. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, TouchdownSkin said:

 

I've wished for a lot over my 30+ years as a fan.  If McVay is that good, he can right this before the season ends.  

 

Maybe, maybe not. I just wouldn't pin long-term decisions on smaller sample sizes. Last year the Redskins were 11th in red zone scoring and this year they are 31st. Making sweeping changes may not be the best approach. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

McVay is not getting fired nor will he be hired as a head coach.  He'll be here, better get used to it.

 

The only potential change Jay can make will be at the DC position.  I think it depends on who is available and whether or not Jay has the cajones to cut his losses.  Everyone has a bad hire, this was his.  If he cuts bait, it will show progress on his behalf as a head coach.

[Voice_of_Reason]

17 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Kubiak, Rivera

 

Belicheck, Carroll

 

Fox, Carroll

 

Harbaugh, Harbaugh

 

Belicheck, Coughlin

 

McCarthy, Tomlin

 

 

These are the coaches from the last 6 SBs

 

Out of these names, nearly every one had been at one point doubted by fans or critics on their competency in their first few years outside of BB and maybe John Harbaugh. My point is that basically there are few truly great coaches in the NFL and you probably shouldn't make sweeping judgments on them so early...especially when they are improving from year to year. 

Actually, I disagree with your assessment.  Fox had success pretty quickly in Carolina, as did Tomlin in Pitt, and both Harbaughs.  Kubiac started strong with Houston, but then faded. McCarthy took over a Brett Favre led Packer's team and competed right away.   Carroll and BB are actually the examples of "questions early" because both were fired after their first stint. 

 

BB was fired for having 3 losing seasons out of 4 in Cleveland (I think, or 2 losing seasons, a winning season, and a 9-7 season, or something like that.  Whatever it was, it wasn't HOF worthy, as the last decade has been), and had a losing season his first year in New England. I don't remember Carroll's resume in NE, but it wasn't awesome.

 

17 hours ago, PortisBetts said:

Kirk isn't where he is at without Gruden. Buy for another season at the very least. 

I agree, I don't want Kirk having to learn another offense, either if they franchise him or sign him to a long term deal.

 

17 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

For the people that want to sell, what would your plan for 2017 consist of? 

There generally isn't one. There certainly isn't an obvious choice out there.  Who are the hot coordinators?  Kyle Shanahan?  McVay? 

 

17 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 Gruden has exceeded expectations.  He's not going anywhere...unless something really attractive falls into our lap.

Exceeding expectations by having a losing record? 

 

17 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Ahh

 

You're right. John Fox.

 

An even worse coach lol.

 

Good catch 

Eh, I'll give Fox credit, he's gotten 2 teams to the SB.  Granted, one was with Peyton Freaking Manning playing out of his mind.

 

16 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Sell. I have never seen anything to suggest he was a good coach and I still don't.

 

But he isn't going anywhere for now.

We have so little consistency...  Do you know not 1 coach under Snyder has gotten a second contract?  He probably would have given Gibbs a second one.  But otherwise ...

 

7 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Promote Olivadotti and Callahan and keep continuity imo. 

Callahan was a pretty awful coordinator the last time around, I think.  Didn't he have play-calling duties in Dallas and they took them away?

 

6 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

I don't think you can keep Barry another year.  Too many players and the head coach have given him a tongue lashing on camera.

 

He has mid-2000 TB Bucs blood running through his veins.  He's not going anywhere.  That bond runs DEEP. 

 

4 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

It's an offense that marches up and down the field, but fails to score TDs costing games, I liked your analogies, but in the end, winning matters.

I think that they've out-thought themselves.  They're now so concerned with RZ, that they are pressing, and bungling things up.  If they just settled down a bit, they'd be ok. 

[RedskinsMayne]

4 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

It's an offense that marches up and down the field, but fails to score TDs costing games, I liked your analogies, but in the end, winning matters.

 

 

We we have scored TDs, but we aren't lucky enough to be playing with ourselves...

[Commander -JB-]

People seem to forget that the Cardinals won 13 games last year & played in the NFC title game.  Not having the same success this season, however, still a potent team with big playmakers on both sides of the ball.  Hard to win on their turf. Buy Gruden, for now.  We'll reexamine things after the season.