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Jay Gruden: Buy or Sell


SWFLSkins

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I gotta say Sell. I don't know where Scot sees this. I see this as a Sell. Take Kirk and continue to build. 

 

I don't see Jay ever bringing us long term success. 

 

I have tried and tried to see Jay as a up and comer that would grow with the team. I still see that same game mgt. issues as his first year. Added to this is his hiring and backing of Joe Barry. I am getting the vibe that Jay is our new world order "Norv". He is not that over achiever Coach that will take a team far. I hope I am wrong. He seems to be making the same mistakes in-game that he was making year one. There are too many ill-timed calls....Is this our Marvin Lewis?

 

We tried awfully  hard out there , seems too familiar. The near misses, the almost. It's dysfunction is not comforting. I don't see Jay being successful here, unless you enjoy seasons of good records followed by early exits from the playoffs. IMO, he doesn't have the wow factor. The Joe Gibbs, calling the right plays at the right time. Not feeling it, was kinda staying in a mode of indecision, but my gut keeps repeating itself. Like a bad pizza that tasted good, the stomach don't lie. 

 

Those fades, trying one to D-Jax today? Not rolling Kirk out when you had 2 out of 5 OL starters sidelined? no screens? shying away from running Kelley,,, Late season false starts or whatever the hell else fail you can imagine. .... all seems amateurish to me. 

 

So I ask, Buy or Sell? 

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1 minute ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

 

We tried awfully  hard out there , seems too familiar. The near misses, the almost. It's dysfunction is not comforting. I don't see Jay being successful here, unless you enjoy seasons of good records followed by early exits from the playoffs. IMO, he doesn't have the wow factor. The Joe Gibbs, calling the right plays at the right time. Not feeling it, was kinda staying in a mode of indecision, but my gut keeps repeating itself. Like a bad pizza that tasted good, the stomach don't lie. 

 

 

This is his third season here, and hopefully we actually make the playoffs this year.  I'm not that concerned about "early exits" yet.

 

For all the Gibbs worship (and he is a great coach), but that was during the era of no salary cap.  I didn't see Joe make any deep runs from 2004-2007.

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1 minute ago, hail2skins said:

This is his third season here, and hopefully we actually make the playoffs this year.  I'm not that concerned about "early exits" yet.

 

For all the Gibbs worship (and he is a great coach), but that was during the era of no salary cap.  I didn't see Joe make any deep runs from 2004-2007.

 

I honestly think The 2005 'Skins had a shot to go to the Superbowl if Brunell's knee hadn't been shredded right before the playoffs started. Ugh.

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He has his warts but he's improved every season and has developed an elite offense. Firing him would be disastrous and really ****ing dumb. It would make Kirk learn a new offense, which would **** over said great offense and probably lead to him regressing and us jumping back on the carousel of sadness

 

 

But firing him would be the Redskin thing (in my lifetime) to do to be fair. 

Also, wth is the "wow" factor?

 

Did Ron Rivera or Gary Kubiak have that prior to last year? 

 

 

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I would say for Jay Gruden: Buy (for now).  I think Jay has done enough to earn some more time, however I would say it's not a sure thing that he is the coach to take this team to the promised land.  I almost look at it as akin to Norv Turner. He was born to be a coordinator, smart X's & O's guy, could design an offense with the best of 'em.  However, does he have that certain special quality to lead a team? So far I think Jay Gruden has the makings of a coach in the vein of a Marvin Lewis or Steve Mariucci.  With the right talent they will get the team into the playoffs, but can they get them to that next level?

 

I don't know yet. I still want to see the makeup of this team with a better defense.  It's hard to make a final judgement on a coach when the team is so out of whack where one side of the ball is very good and the other is embarrassingly bad.  Norv Turner coached some Chargers teams that should have won rings, but....Norv Turner.  The 'Skins are not that level of a team yet. 

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Jay is a "hold" until the offseason.  If he decides to keep Barry, he needs to accept that that's a decision that he should be evaluated on.  So if Barry comes out next year and gives us another defense that's ranked in the #15-25 range, that doesn't reflect solely on Barry.

 

Hiring Barry in the first place was an iffy decision, but I can at least see an argument for getting a relatively unknown guy who may have gotten a raw deal at previous stops but has good ideas.  But now we've seen what he has to offer and it's not that much better than what we got with Haslett.  I don't know who is going to be available in the offseason, but it would be difficult to get somebody much worse than Barry.

 

Also keep in mind that the "talent" thing isn't solely on the GM.  The coach is responsible for putting the best guys in the starting lineup.  That hasn't always happened (Bruton, Hall, Golston).  Further, the DC is responsible for coaching guys up.  Finally, the DC is responsible for helping the scouting department identify key attributes that will help guys succeed in his system - the scouts' job isn't just to find the best defensive players.  The scouts should be finding guys who may not have fit perfectly in their previous system but who have the attributes necessary to succeed here.  For an example of this, see Ty Nsekhe, Pierre Thomas, Vernon Davis, etc.  Guys who were underperforming at their previous stops in the NFL but have stepped into our system and played like starters.

 

Also, if the DC's system is so complex (or vanilla?) that even if the scouts identify guys who could execute their roles in it, we don't get results, then that's also on the DC.

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I think if you have decided that Kirk is your guy then you have to buy Gruden. Cousins has certainly flourished under his system. If your going to blow it up at this point you have no way of knowing what effect that will have on Cousins continuing to develop. I am OK with blowing up the defensive side of the ball though.

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Overall buy. He's a decent enough coach. If he has talent he'll win.

 

Lets be real how many GREAT coaches are there? Coaches are a product of the talent and the front office/ownership in place. With stability at the top and good talent he'll win, like most coaches. I mean the only real great coach in the NFL is probably Bellicheck.

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Just now, clskinsfan said:

I think if you have decided that Kirk is your guy then you have to buy Gruden. Cousins has certainly flourished under his system. If your going to blow it up at this point you have no way of knowing what effect that will have on Cousins continuing to develop. I am OK with blowing up the defensive side of the ball though.

 

I know there's no chance but if we even thought about firing Gruden, I'd be done with this ****.

 

SWFL is a good poster but this thread is a bit nuts

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Kubiak, Rivera

 

Belicheck, Carroll

 

Kubiak, Carroll

 

Harbaugh, Harbaugh

 

Belicheck, Coughlin

 

McCarthy, Tomlin

 

 

These are the coaches from the last 6 SBs

 

Out of these names, nearly every one had been at one point doubted by fans or critics on their competency in their first few years outside of BB and maybe John Harbaugh. My point is that basically there are few truly great coaches in the NFL and you probably shouldn't make sweeping judgments on them so early...especially when they are improving from year to year. 

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Buy. I wasn't a big fan of him originally. This is a passing league, and his advanced passing offense is perfect for us especially with two possible franchise quarterbacks in our division for a long time to come. We will have a chance in any game with the way we have moved the ball since he has been here. 

 

I do wish he wish he was a little more disciplined, and got on his players a little more in the game. He probably does, but we don't see it on tv with some of his facial expressions he make. At least he doesn't clap the entire game like Garrett does in Dallas. Though this season he has a lot to clap about

 

Gruden arguably the best coach in our division. 

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1 minute ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

For the people that want to sell, what would your plan for 2017 consist of? 

If you sell, I think the rationale would be that Gruden + Kirk isn't enough for us to win a championship, especially if Kirk is commanding $26M per year.  If you're not going to pay Kirk the $26, you let them both walk and roll the dice at QB for 2017 and 2018 while you stock up talent on the rest of the team.

 

I think it's a really tough sell to the fanbase, but if Kirk's price tag truly ends up being unprecedented, then I could at least see an argument for doing a complete cleaning of the house and just letting McLoughan stockpile assets.

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