Jay Gruden: Buy or Sell

[Koolblue13]

50 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

The info proved to not really make sense in context it was being used in. 

 

Lol, I read my offense post at end and can't make sense of it. An elite defense and offense are comparable in their effectiveness during the season, but not playoffs (defense has more value in most cases). I'm with you on that.

 

The defense is bad, I hold the offense to much higher standard as the talent appears to be there to dominate games, but it hasn't happened much at all. It's not entirely fair to the offense, but this is the reality this season. 

Lol okay, yeah, I'm with ya on all of that.

 

I think part of our offensive issues was Matt prancing bear Jones not living up to his potential, Kirks habit of locking onto Reed and Reeds almost refusal to run block.

[SWFLSkins]

16 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

OG Kirk Cousins Fan ‏@TheCasualHero  2m2 minutes ago

It's remarkable that #Redskins are top 10 in points per drive with RZ issues, and LAST in drives per game but still 2nd in total offense.

 

15 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

Someone is ripping off my tweets now?

 

Not even correct numbers there, lol

 

To keep the record straight. 

[SWFLSkins]

If Jay chooses to stay with Barry will this move him to the Sell column for many? Do we want to wait around to see him squander incoming talent? 

 

Dan Synder ‏@MrDCsportsSr  21h21 hours ago

Joe Barry's career as a defensive coordinator in 4 total years so far...32nd ranked D, 32nd ranked D, 28th ranked D, 23rd ranked D.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

If Jay chooses to stay with Barry will this move him to the Sell column for many? Do we want to wait around to see him squander incoming talent? 

 

Dan Synder ‏@MrDCsportsSr  21h21 hours ago

Joe Barry's career as a defensive coordinator in 4 total years so far...32nd ranked D, 32nd ranked D, 28th ranked D, 23rd ranked D.

There is not an explosive offense left on our schedule, so it is possible that he can muster some type of plan together to at minimum be remotely respectable.  The biggest issue with Barry as that he can't find a way to slow down the good, explosive offensive teams with the minimal talent we have.  It's not about stopping anyone, it's about finding a way to get off the field on 3rd down every now and then and force field goals.  The team will get the opportunity to do that here down the stretch.  In the event they don't, Joe B. is gone.  Jay might leave something to be desired with situational decisions and clock management, but he's no dummy. 

[Wildbunny]

42 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 The biggest issue with Barry as that he can't find a way to slow down the good, explosive offensive teams with the minimal talent we have.

 

That's were the talent issue is the most likely seen. But I would be very, very, very concerned, if he cannot field better defenses for the last 4 remaining games. I have little doubts he'll be able to make it.

 

4 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

Dan Synder ‏@MrDCsportsSr  21h21 hours ago

Joe Barry's career as a defensive coordinator in 4 total years so far...32nd ranked D, 32nd ranked D, 28th ranked D, 23rd ranked D.

 

That's some improvment!!!

[SWFLSkins]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There is not an explosive offense left on our schedule, so it is possible that he can muster some type of plan together to at minimum be remotely respectable.  The biggest issue with Barry as that he can't find a way to slow down the good, explosive offensive teams with the minimal talent we have.  It's not about stopping anyone, it's about finding a way to get off the field on 3rd down every now and then and force field goals.  The team will get the opportunity to do that here down the stretch.  In the event they don't, Joe B. is gone.  Jay might leave something to be desired with situational decisions and clock management, but he's no dummy. 

 

Great 1K post. Really is. 

[DC9]

10 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Was it Bob Sanders? The excellent SS who could never stay healthy. He was pretty key to them winning in the playoffs if I remember correctly.

 

Mathis and Freeney at opposite ends. 

 

Sanders and Beathea at Safety.

 

Gary Brackett at ILB.

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There is not an explosive offense left on our schedule, so it is possible that he can muster some type of plan together to at minimum be remotely respectable.  The biggest issue with Barry as that he can't find a way to slow down the good, explosive offensive teams with the minimal talent we have.  It's not about stopping anyone, it's about finding a way to get off the field on 3rd down every now and then and force field goals.  The team will get the opportunity to do that here down the stretch.  In the event they don't, Joe B. is gone.  Jay might leave something to be desired with situational decisions and clock management, but he's no dummy. 

 

I thought the same thing about the Cardinals.  Arians, who is notorious for passing and for his "coverage busting route combos" was patient and methodical in running the ball.  Ironically just like the Cowboys were.

 

I think there is something to not playing a big time offense, but we're going to have to score 30 plus to win most of these remaining games.

[Bigmuss1]

Buy

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, DC9 said:

 

Mathis and Freeney at opposite ends. 

 

Sanders and Beathea at Safety.

 

Gary Brackett at ILB.

 

I thought the same thing about the Cardinals.  Arians, who is notorious for passing and for his "coverage busting route combos" was patient and methodical in running the ball.  Ironically just like the Cowboys were.

 

I think there is something to not playing a big time offense, but we're going to have to score 30 plus to win most of these remaining games.

Just always seemed to hing on Sanders health.

[SWFLSkins]

So has anyone changed from Buy, Sell or Hold. I went from sorta Sell to Hold, and I am standing pat off to the sidelines of course. 

[NoCalMike]

I actually went from "Buy(for now)" to.....let's see how the season plays out over final two games.

 

I think there is a difference between lack of execution and when the team is executing a poorly planned strategy.  Last night, and probably some other games too this season, it simply looks like our coaches are being outsmarted every step of the way.  I know there were a couple drops that would have extended drives, but overall, the game plan against Carolina just seemed awful, and there seemed to be little adjustment made throughout the game. 

[aREDSKIN]

Even JG says JG sucked last night.

 

We’re disappointed, it’s no question,” Gruden said. “First of all, we were outcoached today. There’s no question about that, and they played better than us, so you’ve got to give credit to the Carolina Panthers. It’s my responsibility to get these guys ready to play, and we didn’t execute like I would’ve liked to have seen. That falls on my shoulders.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/20/jay-gruden-admits-he-was-out-coached/

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Definitely selling, but if they finish 9-6-1, he gets another year....but long term; he's not the answer..

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

23 minutes ago, aREDSKIN said:

Even JG says JG sucked last night.

 

 

JG and SM lost this game during the week when the put together a poor game plan imo.

 

Very disappointed in the coaching staff the past few weeks.  

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, hail2skins said:

This is his third season here, and hopefully we actually make the playoffs this year.  I'm not that concerned about "early exits" yet.

 

For all the Gibbs worship (and he is a great coach), but that was during the era of no salary cap.  I didn't see Joe make any deep runs from 2004-2007.

True the Gibbs era was no salery cap but the rest of the league also had no salery cap and how about the Pats? They have to deal with the cap as do we.

Just now, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Definitely selling, but if they finish 9-6-1, he gets another year....but long term; he's not the answer..

Agree. I do not see Gruden as the second comming of Lombardi but more like a Norve.

[Wildbunny]

7 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

 

Agree. I do not see Gruden as the second comming of Lombardi but more like a Norve.

Does he have to be the next Lombardi to take us to the SB?

 

I doubt it.

I mean... Brian Billick have a ring...

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Agree. I do not see Gruden as the second comming of Lombardi but more like a Norve.

I disagree.  I think that Gruden's teams are much tougher mentally than Norv's.  Most of the time.  The team has faught through adversity several times this year, and come back and either won or been competitive.  Norv's teams tended to get hit in the face and then find the nearest exit.  Even last night, they kept TRYING to come back, but they were out-matched talent wise, and out coached scheme wise.

 

I'm still fine with Gruden IF he fires that doofus Joe Barry.  You can't win championships with the village idiot as your DC. 

 

GMSM also needs to find more players on Defense, and do it FAST. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Wildbunny said:

Does he have to be the next Lombardi to take us to the SB?

 

I doubt it.

I mean... Brian Billick have a ring...

No bunny, the head coach of the Redskins does not have to be the next Lombardi but wouldn't it be nice if he was? Would you rather have Jay? IMO he has to be better than the guy we have and as usual you make a statement without facts. I said Jay is closer to Norv than Lombardi and if you check the winning % of Norv and Jay you will find they are similar. Try this, Norv .483 winning % no super bowl Jay .466 winning % no super bowl  and now the guy you were mocking, Billick.556 winning % and 1 super bowl and a few playoff games. Now who's record is Jay's closer too? Norv or Billick? Can you please explain " Brian Billick have a ring" or do you mean Brian Bilik has a ring.

[43LarryBrown]

I'm not sure...but I am starting to get sick of the same kinda confused look on his face and his passive sideline demeanor...

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

No bunny, the head coach of the Redskins does not have to be the next Lombardi but wouldn't it be nice if he was? Would you rather have Jay? IMO he has to be better than the guy we have and as usual you make a statement without facts. I said Jay is closer to Norv than Lombardi and if you check the winning % of Norv and Jay you will find they are similar. Try this, Norv .483 winning % no super bowl Jay .466 winning % no super bowl  and now the guy you were mocking, Billick.556 winning % and 1 super bowl and a few playoff games. Now who's record is Jay's closer too? Norv or Billick? Can you please explain " Brian Billick have a ring" or do you mean Brian Bilik has a ring.

Gruden's just getting his coaching career started, it isn't fair to compare win %s. Also he was stuck with the god awful RG3 at QB in 2014. Since he was empowered to play his own QB he's been over .500 and that's with no run game or D.

 

The truth is, people overrate coaches. How many truly great coaches are in the NFL? Bellicheck...that's about it. People talk about Mike Tomlin but I see him make blunder after blunder(remember that loss to Dallas?). Andy Reid STILL can't manage the clock. Jason Garrett once went 8-8 three years in a row. A coach's success is largely based around the FO above him supporting him and the talent he has.

 

Gruden is a solid NFL coach. Is he Bellicheck? Probably not, but you could look for 100 years and not find Bellicheck. As great as Joe Gibbs was, he had the Hogs, HOF-ers at RB and WR, and some should be HOF-ers or at least damn close to it on D. No coach turns water into wine.

[Wildbunny]

4 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

No bunny, the head coach of the Redskins does not have to be the next Lombardi but wouldn't it be nice if he was? Would you rather have Jay? IMO he has to be better than the guy we have and as usual you make a statement without facts. I said Jay is closer to Norv than Lombardi and if you check the winning % of Norv and Jay you will find they are similar. Try this, Norv .483 winning % no super bowl Jay .466 winning % no super bowl  and now the guy you were mocking, Billick.556 winning % and 1 super bowl and a few playoff games. Now who's record is Jay's closer too? Norv or Billick? Can you please explain " Brian Billick have a ring" or do you mean Brian Bilik has a ring.

I didn't make a statement, I asked a question. Perhaps you didn't notice the question mark.

 

Now Brian Billick have a winning record mostly due to his defense, and even with that, it's up and down if you check his career.

Also, the great Belichick is something like 41-55 without Tom brady as a QB, and 195-60 with him. Think about that.

Another one that I always like to bring up in such speach, is the Tom Landry case, who was 9-28-3 in his first three season (and didn't had a winning season until his 7th year as a coach.

 

And Norv Turner was 18-30 in his first full 3 seasons...

 

 

[bobandweave]

On 12/8/2016 at 6:54 AM, SWFLSkins said:

If Jay chooses to stay with Barry will this move him to the Sell column for many? Do we want to wait around to see him squander incoming talent? 

 

Dan Synder ‏@MrDCsportsSr  21h21 hours ago

Joe Barry's career as a defensive coordinator in 4 total years so far...32nd ranked D, 32nd ranked D, 28th ranked D, 23rd ranked D.

 

He just needs more players and more time lol 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

14 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

True the Gibbs era was no salery cap but the rest of the league also had no salery cap and how about the Pats? They have to deal with the cap as do we.

Agree. I do not see Gruden as the second comming of Lombardi but more like a Norve.

 

That's true, but no cap favored about 10 teams...just the way there are Haves and Have Nots in MLB now. 

 

Overall, I am still very excited about having Gruden here. I would love for McCloughan, Gruden, and Cousins to stick together for another 5 years. I honestly believe that, if that happens, we will have gone through a pretty exciting 5-year stretch here. 

[KingGibbs]

I've been on the Gruden bandwagon, but watching the body language of the players and the lack of tenacity on Monday was really disappointing. They seemed ill-prepared and were clearly out-coached.

 

It's really perplexing as to why Gruden continues to defer the coin toss and guaranteed to be playing from behind from kickoff.

 

He also needs to get rid of Barry. Period. Details not needed. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Jay and Kirk are tied at the hip.  We are riding the Jay and Kirk train wherever it takes us. 

 

I appreciate Jay's honesty when admitting the team is outcoached, but it's a bit troublesome that he's said it so often.  At times, I think his happy go-lucky players coach mentality is a detriment to a roster that really isn't that good.  I also realize the guy is learning on the job and has to be himself in order to have the respect of the team.  I'm not sure we have any choice but to keep both Jay and Kirk around and hope for the best.  I simply don't have the patience to wait for another coach and QB.