Jay Gruden: Buy or Sell

[squatch66]

9 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Remember that time Dan & Vinny hired a new offensive coordinator when we didn't have a head coach.

 

Oh my God your post and name...it's just too much...

[Wildbunny]

5 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Bunny. Never said it was Barry for 3 years. I said "the DC you wanted." Try again. 

Who were you talking about then? Charly Brown?

 

You keep on writing stuff then denying it. It's pointless talking to you.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Wildbunny said:

Who were you talking about then? Charly Brown?

 

You keep on writing stuff then denying it. It's pointless talking to you.

Bunny, it is a analogy. You are not to take it literally. 

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Head coaches pick their assistants. Thats how it works.

Not all the time .

[skinfan2k]

15 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Bunny, it is a analogy. You are not to take it literally. 

Not all the time .

 

Can you please provide an example with a link? and please dont use Jim Zorn as your example LOL

Gruden is the only coach in the last 25 years to have a winning season in back to back season and people want him fired.

[Warhead36]

58 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

 

Not all the time .

What are examples of GOOD teams where the Head Coach doesn't pick their assistants?

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, skinfan2k said:

 

Can you please provide an example with a link? and please dont use Jim Zorn as your example LOL

Gruden is the only coach in the last 25 years to have a winning season in back to back season and people want him fired.

Don't know if I can find a link but a few tears ago the Giants were not happy with the Tom C offence, think they finished 25 or close to that,  Eli throwing a mil interceptions etc, so they took the job of OC .from him and gave it to B mac. The B mac offense is a quick throw offense, thought to cut down on sacks and interceptions. Now Tom C did not like this and he did not pick Ben the Giant brass did. Tom had nothing to do now and he is used to being the big cheeze so he became upset and he expressed his feelings on talk radio. Even our own Jay did not pick all his assistants. Happens all the time. Teams may not want to fire a assistant they will have to pay so they tell the new coach put up with some of our assistants or don' t take the job. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Wildbunny said:

Except Scot said it when he was hired, coaching staff is up to Jay. Doesn't means Scot have no input, but final word is on Jay.

Scot has enough on his plate with the roster and scouting.

Exactly the point I made that the GM, team Pres, Owner, and head coach have input.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

Thats an absurd standard. How many teams go into Foxboro and win a primetime game? By that standard nobody is a good coach.

 

 

I never said he is a bad coach. I think he is O.K. and I VOTED TO KEEP HIM but my complaint with him is that he has not beat a top tier team yet. His team was destroyed, AT HOME by the Pack in last years playoff game. His team was destroyed AT HOME by the Steelers and Panthers this year. The Panthers beat us up on defense and his team never responded. His team was not ready. The Cards put up a ton of points on us. We let teams like the Lions and Bengels off the hook and they are not top tier teams. The Pats and Panthers last year at home!  I know they have more talent but just don't get embarrassed in prime time and I will be happy for now but these beat downs are disheartening. If we beat the Giants and make the playoffs his stock will rise with me. Last time we played them they dropped 3 td passes and they were driving for a winning score when we got a int in the red zone. I hope they rest some players this week. If he wins a playoff on the road I will be forever grateful but I just don't see him doing that. last one, might be too much to ask.

[GoDeep81]

They lay another egg, in a huge home, (basically) primetime game and Jay will have both feet in the fire! I think a competitive loss wouldn't be the end of the world, but another embarrassment? Ho Boy!

 

On the other hand, they come out blazing and bust off a big win, that could help Jay into his 2nd contract..

[Veretax]

On 12/21/2016 at 9:02 AM, skinfan2k said:

 

We are building a team. You guys don't realize this team is worse than a expansion team. After years and years of avoiding the draft, our roster was terrible.  McC focused on the offense in years 1-2 because he wanted to stabilize the QB position and its the quickest way to win games fast.  A dominant defense takes much longer to build.

 

I was depressed after Monday Night.  I HATE that we lay so many stickers on Monday night games.   I have almost reached a point I don't want to turn us ON on Monday night because I know I'm going to get my heart broken.

 

That having been said.  The QB is not signed.  Its not stable till he's signed long term.  Talk to me then about stability.  Plus Garcon? Jackson?   both gone maybe?

 

This isn't the skins I grew up with, we'll never see those days again because of Free Agency. 

 

However, Jay doesn't seem like an elite coach.  He might be okay moving forward. and maybe that's fine, but I agree with what Doc said a few weeks ago.  I don't understand why Grown men who get PAID to play football, need a coach to motivate them to play better.

 

I expect any Defensive backfield to get torched now and then.  The rules grossly favor the offense to an extreme right now.   But, we are hurtin gon defense, We all know it, but I've seen some good things from young guys so there's hope.  I'm not one who expected us to make tons of noise this year.  Next year was the year I circled.

 

I'll keep rooting for them though.  I can't help to do so.

 

[Veretax]

2 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

 

Can you please provide an example with a link? and please dont use Jim Zorn as your example LOL

Gruden is the only coach in the last 25 years to have a winning season in back to back season and people want him fired.

 

And that's useful to a degree.  However, there are issues you can't deny it.

 

8 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

They lay another egg, in a huge home, (basically) primetime game and Jay will have both feet in the fire! I think a competitive loss wouldn't be the end of the world, but another embarrassment? Ho Boy!

 

On the other hand, they come out blazing and bust off a big win, that could help Jay into his 2nd contract..

 

I think he has 2 more primetime stinkers before he has to worry.

 

I want Jay to stay, I want Kirk to stay.

 

I hope they can keep both or at least one of Djax and Garcon.

 

 

But I've got to the point where I'm used to the unexpected, and lets be honest, Jay wasn't hired by Scot.  I think they played well against the bears.  I want to see them play better against touch non division opponents. I think Jay will be back, if we intend to keep cousins.  I can't imagine we don't keep cousins.

 

 

The real question is.   Can Jay keep all of his staff together.

 

WHat if he loses his OC?

 

 

 

 

[skinfan2k]

I marvel at Gibbs taking 2 trash teams to the playoffs but Gruden has done the same. 

[TheCoach22]

57 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

I marvel at Gibbs taking 2 trash teams to the playoffs but Gruden has done the same. 

That just isn't an accurate statement. The offense is top 5 in football, so "trash" is extreme. Especially in today's NFL, there are no elite teams. Literally, if GB were to fall to the Lions we'd be one of only two teams to make the playoffs the last two years in the NFC, Seattle being the other. 

 

Right now, Jay has shown he knows QBs and offense... this was already known about him. Can he learn the idiosyncrasies of being a good HC? We shall see.

[Gregpeck99]

Signing Cousins to an extension will be a vote of confidence for Jay.

[zoony]

1 hour ago, Veretax said:

 

And that's useful to a degree.  However, there are issues you can't deny it.

 

 

I think he has 2 more primetime stinkers before he has to worry.

 

I want Jay to stay, I want Kirk to stay.

 

I hope they can keep both or at least one of Djax and Garcon.

 

 

But I've got to the point where I'm used to the unexpected, and lets be honest, Jay wasn't hired by Scot.  I think they played well against the bears.  I want to see them play better against touch non division opponents. I think Jay will be back, if we intend to keep cousins.  I can't imagine we don't keep cousins.

 

 

The real question is.   Can Jay keep all of his staff together.

 

WHat if he loses his OC?

 

 

 

 

 

I am hoping we lose McVay.  Maybe get someone who isnt so alergic to the run.

 

This is Grudens offense make no mistake.  We will lose nothing if baby huey leaves

[Wildbunny]

32 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

I am hoping we lose McVay.  Maybe get someone who isnt so alergic to the run.

 

This is Grudens offense make no mistake.  We will lose nothing if baby huey leaves

I've been thinking about this lately. He's seen as a genius, but our offense seem to stagnate lately, and I'm quite pissed at him. He doesn't seem to have any solution at our RZ woes and looks too cute at times.

Basically, I would think he's trying to put too much highlight reels out of this offense, and forget about the basics of football.

Guy needs some more seasoning as an assistant OC if he wants to improve. Right now, I wouldn't mind a change at OC next offseason.

[LaxBuddy21]

46 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

I am hoping we lose McVay.  Maybe get someone who isnt so alergic to the run.

 

This is Grudens offense make no mistake.  We will lose nothing if baby huey leaves

I still don't get the run obsession. It's not the 80s any more. We need do what gets first downs and into the end zone period. Running may help the red zone struggles but we don't have the offensive line that knocks guys off the ball. I think more creative play calling will have a bigger impact than straight running the ball just because. More deception and changing formations at the line so the defense has to pause and think would go a long way. 

[Duckus]

What's financing look on leasing?

[zoony]

2 hours ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

I still don't get the run obsession. It's not the 80s any more. We need do what gets first downs and into the end zone period. Running may help the red zone struggles but we don't have the offensive line that knocks guys off the ball. I think more creative play calling will have a bigger impact than straight running the ball just because. More deception and changing formations at the line so the defense has to pause and think would go a long way. 

 

 

1st and goal from the 5 and three straight fades?  If thats your thing, man

[LaxBuddy21]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

 

 

1st and goal from the 5 and three straight fades?  If thats your thing, man

Lol I agree the fade makes no sense. Now a couple boot pass options or a jet sweep option inside the 10 would go a long way. 

[skinzplay]

Gruden's offense will be just fine if Boy Wonder departs. I, too, look forward to that day.

[Spaceman Spiff]

16 hours ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

I still don't get the run obsession. It's not the 80s any more. We need do what gets first downs and into the end zone period. Running may help the red zone struggles but we don't have the offensive line that knocks guys off the ball. I think more creative play calling will have a bigger impact than straight running the ball just because. More deception and changing formations at the line so the defense has to pause and think would go a long way. 

 

The strategy of ball control and time of possession doesn't NOT make sense no matter what the era is.  

 

We're something like 5-1-1 this year when we've run for over 100 yards. 

[LaxBuddy21]

12 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

The strategy of ball control and time of possession doesn't NOT make sense no matter what the era is.  

 

We're something like 5-1-1 this year when we've run for over 100 yards. 

Half of the top rushing teams are not playoff teams. It doesn't matter how get there. What matters is that you move the ball and get 1st downs and score. 

[skins island connection]

Yes, but our ability to run the ball only happens against teams with weak d lines.

Our o-line isn't nearly as good at run support than pass protection, and throw in Jones, who wasn't doing anything to help the offense,

So I can see the angle of using the pass to set up the run; thing is, that usually means a lot more passing than running.

 

I remember, not so long ago, where everyone could call the play coming up; run, run, pass, then punt. Predictable, bland, and didn't work. Now that pattern has gone away [ thank god ] and passing on 1st downs has opened up the offense and made it what it is today. Of course, passing on 1st downs means less carries for the RB, but if the line can't create holes, why not try to move the ball other ways?

[jpage520]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

The strategy of ball control and time of possession doesn't NOT make sense no matter what the era is.  

 

We're something like 5-1-1 this year when we've run for over 100 yards. 

 

This is important. This offense is VERY explosive. But it doesn't hold up nearly as well if we don't establish SOME kind of running game. The debacle last Monday was a good example. We ran for what, less than 30yds? Kirk still threw for 300+, but we all know how ineffective the offense was as a whole. Thanksgiving game against Dallas, ran for I believe less than 60 total yards, but KC threw for around 450yds. Granted, the offense wasn't necessarily the issue, but it's all related to some extent. The running game NEEDS to be effective if for nothing else but to contribute to the clock management, getting the defense some rest, ball control, and field position.