Kirk Cousins 2017 contract discussion/prediction

[ExoDus84]

I'm sure we'll get something done with Cousins. I want him on this team. However, if Scott came out and said that the team couldn't get a deal done, I'd still assume he knew what he was doing. If you have a good defense, with a strong run game, you can get by with average QB production. Look at what the Chiefs are doing. Look at what the Cowboys are doing this year. Prescott is a rookie. He's not ripping off 400 yards and 4 TD's per week, yet the Cowboys are winning. He's playing within the system, and not losing games. A team can win with an average, smart QB, if the team around him is well developed.

 

As much as I like Kirk, and want him on this team, if we were able to build our defense to be very competitive, we wouldn't need as much production from our QB. In fact, historically Kirk has played much better with a stout run game, when he's not asked to do as much. There are a few ways to build a team, but my main concern going forward is getting the defense up to snuff. I don't want us to become the Saints, and lose games unless we score 35+ points a game.

[illone]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, understand i am serious in how i feel about this.

 

He walks, i walk with him. That'll be it for me.

 

I agree and understand.

 

However, I think what we are hearing right now is only rumor and innuendo. There have been no quotes from GMSM on the matter, just a bunch of hearsay.  People are reading into Cousins "How You Like Me Now" rant, but this is the same kid who screamed "You Like That" and became viral meme because of it.  In other words, the reaction and over-reaction to that emotion fueled post-game tirade are ridiculous there is nothing else going on there.

 

Point being, I would be shocked if they don't come to an agreement.  I'm betting good money that they are having illegal clandestine meetings with the agent as I type this, but as you know they can't formally negotiate with the player until after the season.  It will get done. Kirk is well worth the investment and the Skins will have cap room to get it done.

[TheGreek1973]

21 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

I'm sure we'll get something done with Cousins. I want him on this team. However, if Scott came out and said that the team couldn't get a deal done, I'd still assume he knew what he was doing. If you have a good defense, with a strong run game, you can get by with average QB production. Look at what the Chiefs are doing. Look at what the Cowboys are doing this year. Prescott is a rookie. He's not ripping off 400 yards and 4 TD's per week, yet the Cowboys are winning. He's playing within the system, and not losing games. A team can win with an average, smart QB, if the team around him is well developed.

 

As much as I like Kirk, and want him on this team, if we were able to build our defense to be very competitive, we wouldn't need as much production from our QB. In fact, historically Kirk has played much better with a stout run game, when he's not asked to do as much. There are a few ways to build a team, but my main concern going forward is getting the defense up to snuff. I don't want us to become the Saints, and lose games unless we score 35+ points a game.

See this is the kind of thinking that will get us in trouble.  I believe that GM from the Panthers thought the same way right?  Hey we have a hell of a front 7 who needs Norman.  Look you maybe right in some sense, but lets not go nuts thinking the Scott is that much of a genius, hell he already dropped the ball on Cousins to save a few million and as for running backs, how is that 3rd round pick called Jones working out for us.

 

You just can't turn your back on a 5K QB.  Hell even the Chargers with a great QB in Rivers I am sure are thinking what it would have been like if they had Brees instead.  And here you are advocating to let go of a QB like we never had for maybe building a D and a running game?  No thanks.

 

[illone]

20 hours ago, jschuck12001 said:

I don't see why we would franchise him again.

 

The ONLY reason why this would make sense is salary cap management.  I admittedly know very little about the inner workings of the cap, and specifically the Redskins cap situation, but if say for example the Skins have way more cap space to work with in 2018 than 2017 then perhaps it will make sense to postpone the long term deal to the following off-season.  But even that doesn't make too much sense because doesn't a long term deal give the team more flexibility than a one year $25Mil cap hit?

 

At the end, I agree with you.  It doesn't seem plausible to franchise him again.

[chrisxcore]

With the growing list of season accomplishments, awards and rising statistics, it would be absolutely laughable to let Kirk walk if he led us to the playoffs. Beyond ridiculous.

 

I won't pretend to be smart enough to figure out the deal will affect the cap, or how to minimize the damage and make it as 'team friendly' as possible, but barring a late season collapse, Kirk deserves a deal similar to the top QB's in the league.

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Dude I just posted, Cox got 63 million guaranteed.  Are you telling me if Cousins plays like this for the next two years a team, being only 30 years old he will not get a contract for 85 million guaranteed for 5 or 6 years?  So even if we tag him again next year, he gets 24 plus whatever his new contract will be from the new team (because I do believe we will not do a 3rd tag). So what he was saying, if Cousins is gun ho to leave the Redskins, then yea we are screwed.  We basically have him for next year.  After that we will need to let him go or tag him for an impossible 34 million.  Think about it, he is getting 19 plus 24 plus the new contract from any other team with 80+ guaranteed...Cousins  would be one of the highest if not the highest paid QB in history.  That is like 120+ million in his pocket and he still will be 29-30 years old.  Again lets hope he wants to be here because if not, he can make it impossible for us to sign him. 

 

I think Bliz needs to be placed in concussion protocol because last year Russell Wilson got $61.524 mil guaranteed by the Seahawks.  Granted, he was the QB on a Super Bowl team but he also had the benefit of top 3 defense and running game.  Kirk has had to to work with a defense and running game that has been at the bottom of the NFL in ranking.

[goskins10]

21 hours ago, Bang said:

Cost,, tired of hearing it.

A Quarterback is the single most important piece in the entire puzzle. Winners pay it. Winners recognize when they have the piece, and they pay it.

 

Edit

 

But we have it. Bird in HAND.  Do NOT let it get out this time. It'll be the last straw for me.

 

~Bang

 

I love the passion! The Bang is fired up! As I said, I get where you are coming from and don't really disagree. But there has to be some limit. I really think this whole conversation is academic though. I would be shocked if they do not get a deal done before the last deadline.

[Wildbunny]

4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I love the passion! The Bang is fired up! As I said, I get where you are coming from and don't really disagree. But there has to be some limit. I really think this whole conversation is academic though. I would be shocked if they do not get a deal done before the last deadline.

Honestly, if we don't make this signing, we might just all hang up or root for the cowboys or whoever you want and ask Dan Snyder to dissolve the team so he can put an end to our misery...

 

I just can't imagine us **** this up and have Kirk go elsewhere....

PAY

THE

MAN!

 

This negotiation should take 5 minutes IRL. Kirk steps in the office, you hands him a contract with blanks when it comes to numbers, and you let him write what he wants in it. 5 minutes of negotiating, no more.

Then you sign where it's written "Sign here". Then, you take your own car and you hands the contract to the NFL and you stay there until it's legally approved by the league. Just in case, ask a police escort on your way there so there's no car crash and contract is lost or whatever...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 hours ago, ExoDus84 said:

I'm sure we'll get something done with Cousins. I want him on this team. However, if Scott came out and said that the team couldn't get a deal done, I'd still assume he knew what he was doing. If you have a good defense, with a strong run game, you can get by with average QB production. Look at what the Chiefs are doing. Look at what the Cowboys are doing this year. Prescott is a rookie. He's not ripping off 400 yards and 4 TD's per week, yet the Cowboys are winning. He's playing within the system, and not losing games. A team can win with an average, smart QB, if the team around him is well developed.

 

As much as I like Kirk, and want him on this team, if we were able to build our defense to be very competitive, we wouldn't need as much production from our QB. In fact, historically Kirk has played much better with a stout run game, when he's not asked to do as much. There are a few ways to build a team, but my main concern going forward is getting the defense up to snuff. I don't want us to become the Saints, and lose games unless we score 35+ points a game.

 

Smart post...in a vacuum, you are 100% right. 

 

But, if you build around a proven QB, you have a longer window because you only have to lock in one guy long-term. Cousins at 28 could play for 10 more years. If you build around a stout defense and running game, it's a constant struggle to replace players and maintain their production. If McCloughan built the perfect defense, eventually (in 3-5 years) all those guys will be demanding raises and you can't pay everyone.

 

The Patriots have re-worked 2-3 different groups of guys around Brady over 15 years. He's the constant and they've contended every year. The 49ers were very good and true contenders for a few years, but quickly dropped off. It feels more like a "lightning in a bottle" approach. 

 

 

[Bang]

44 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Smart post...in a vacuum, you are 100% right. 

 

But, if you build around a proven QB, you have a longer window because you only have to lock in one guy long-term. Cousins at 28 could play for 10 more years. If you build around a stout defense and running game, it's a constant struggle to replace players and maintain their production. If McCloughan built the perfect defense, eventually (in 3-5 years) all those guys will be demanding raises and you can't pay everyone.

 

The Patriots have re-worked 2-3 different groups of guys around Brady over 15 years. He's the constant and they've contended every year. The 49ers were very good and true contenders for a few years, but quickly dropped off. It feels more like a "lightning in a bottle" approach. 

 

 

Agreed, and to expound on this, the NFL is set up to pass pass pass and then pass some more.

They want high scores, and have manipulated the game to make it happen.

Getting a good defense does not mean it has to be a lockdown lights out defense.

We're winning games, but not because we're having to shoot it out.  (Mostly, we've been our own biggest enemy on offense.)
This offense can, should, and if i had to bet a dollar on it, will score near or over 30 points per game. It's built to do so, and if we made the scoring opportunities we miss all by ourselves, they would be vaulting this team into rarified airs where all of this discussion is unheard over the popping of champagne bottles.

With an offense like that, all you need out of your D is to say OK, hold them to 20-24.
Better safety play and wiser use of personnel makes this defense better than it is now. Not too too many pieces to fit in to become a contender. And you can always build onto it. No need to always try to get every piece every year.

 

So the addage is "take what they give you"... well, the NFL is giving you license to pass, and we've damn sure got us a passer and an offense that runs receivers open willy-nilly. (or pell-mell, you choose.) .

Fit that piece in, give consistency in the philosophy and coaching staff (extend Gruden.) and all the rest have an exponentially better chance of falling into place. In today's league, an offense that can score like this one has the ability to do can mask a lot of what used to be deficiencies.

 

 

~Bang

 

[Fergasun]

It would be dumb for Kirk and the GM not to get a long term deal done.  I was ready to pay him after Week 5.  

[goskins10]

On ‎11‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 5:40 PM, jschuck12001 said:

I don't see why we would franchise him again.  If the whole thing is about money the franchise tag wouldn't make sense because SM would be paying KC 45 mill guaranteed over a 2-year span, how does that make sense if you don't feel the player is worth a large contract.

 

I didn't realize if we franchise him next year we could again franchise him in 2018.

 

What the hell were the players thinking when they approved that.

 

 

 

  

 

While they can franchise them a 3rd year - it's 144% of the previous years salary.  For Kirk that would be almost $35M. If I am player and they want to give me a 20% raise (tag 2) then a 44% raise the next year, I am all in!

[skinfan2k]

if you want to be the chiefs with alex smith, we are never winning a Super Bowl.  You need a elite QB to win a Super Bowl now.  No defense will ever win you a Super Bowl in this era.  The era of running the ball, stopping the run is over

[Momma There Goes That Man]

36 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

You need a elite QB to win a Super Bowl now.  No defense will ever win you a Super Bowl in this era.

Did you miss last season? 

[RedskinsMayne]

honestly our running game is sporadic, our defense is atrocious, our special teams is so so... so if that's not a quarterback carrying a team to the playoffs idk what is. It sure isn't the coaching >_>. (though i think the HC is getting better) Crazy to let him go.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Did you miss last season? 

 

 

Manning was still Elite... he was able to read defenses at a very high level, just enough to get buy. But i doubt the Broncos would have won with a Jay Cutler or Kapernick? at QB....

[Spaceman Spiff]

42 minutes ago, RedskinsMayne said:

honestly our running game is sporadic, our defense is atrocious, our special teams is so so... so if that's not a quarterback carrying a team to the playoffs idk what is. It sure isn't the coaching >_>. (though i think the HC is getting better) Crazy to let him go.

 

 

 

 

Manning was still Elite... he was able to read defenses at a very high level, just enough to get buy. But i doubt the Broncos would have won with a Jay Cutler or Kapernick? at QB....

 

Manning was hardly elite by the time they got to the Superbowl.  In the big game he was 13/23 for 141 yards, no scores and a pick.  He had no zip on his passes, whatsoever.  He missed six games, Osweiler held it down in the 2nd half of the season.  It was all defense for that team.

 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I have no tangible basis for this feeling, but I have a small, sneaking suspicion that Cousins takes a team friendly deal.  He gets paid for sure, but it's a Brady-like deal.  

 

Maybe it's just because he strikes me as a team first guy.  I'm not trying to get too carried away, but he reminds me of Brady to a bit of a degree.  The work ethic, the preparation, the focus.  Later round draft pick, under-appreciated by teams during the scouting process, combine stats didn't blow anyone away and it wouldn't surprise me if Kirk could rattle off the QBs picked ahead of him.  I think there's a bit of a chip on his shoulder, a bit of a **** you attitude and a desire to shove it down everyone's throat, repeatedly.  Both of them had to unseat an incumbent, Brady did it because Bledsoe went down with an injury and it happened suddenly.  Cousins had a bit of a harder time, his ascent coincided with RG3 getting hurt AND having his quality of play regress.

 

Don't get it twisted, I'm not directly comparing him to Brady, that's a dumb comp.  However there are some similarities in their backgrounds that are similar.   Maybe Cousins takes a huge payday and is paid like a top 5, maybe a top 3 quarterback.  Or maybe he's happy to be somewhere between spots 5 and 10, knowing that the team still has money to bring in free agents to help for the long term.  

[TSO]

9 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

The Patriots have re-worked 2-3 different groups of guys around Brady over 15 years. He's the constant and they've contended every year. The 49ers were very good and true contenders for a few years, but quickly dropped off. It feels more like a "lightning in a bottle" approach. 

 

Totally agree, and the good news is this is exactly what Scot has said on this topic  himself. 

 

Guys, just read that bleacher report interview this past offseason. I don't know why that's not getting more play. The answers are all there. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, lol. 

 

I mean, Scot has been straightforward and pretty dang blunt since he assumed the role of GM here. He says what he means and means what he says by all accounts. 

 

I'm reading that interview and I see a guy who recognizes how great it is to have a QB in this league that can consistently put up points. He then literally states that it's easy to fix the defense with what sounds like cheaper FAs, draft picks or undrafted guys. 

 

I posted that part of it recently here, but I'd advise to read that entire interview again. @Bang , it'll help calm your nerves.  

 

@Spaceman Spiff Man, I have no gut feeling on this either, but I hope you're onto something. I'd be literally floating if that happened and he signed a deal like that. I don't think I'd need shoes anymore. 

[Rattlesnake88]

3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Manning was hardly elite by the time they got to the Superbowl.  In the big game he was 13/23 for 141 yards, no scores and a pick.  He had no zip on his passes, whatsoever.  He missed six games, Osweiler held it down in the 2nd half of the season.  It was all defense for that team.

 

 

Ok, while physically Manning was a shell. An utter shell of his former self. He still is maybe the BEST qb of all time pre snap. That is 100% an elite trait to have in a situational footbal. 

[Bliz]

16 hours ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

I think Bliz needs to be placed in concussion protocol because last year Russell Wilson got $61.524 mil guaranteed by the Seahawks.  Granted, he was the QB on a Super Bowl team but he also had the benefit of top 3 defense and running game.  Kirk has had to to work with a defense and running game that has been at the bottom of the NFL in ranking.

 

I don't think guarantees comparable to what a super bowl winner and multiple pro bowler got would be an insult.  But anyway, I never said 60 would be the final number, I said why  what Schefter said is ridiculous and why you consider something in that range.  Maybe it's ultimately 70-75 guaranteed, I don't know.  I did also say we probably will make him one of the 3 highest paid QBs in the league.  

[Bang]

3 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

 

I'm reading that interview and I see a guy who recognizes how great it is to have a QB in this league that can consistently put up points. He then literally states that it's easy to fix the defense with what sounds like cheaper FAs, draft picks or undrafted guys. 

 

I posted that part of it recently here, but I'd advise to read that entire interview again. @Bang , it'll help calm your nerves.  

 

Mostly what i got from that is that he was feeling up Kirk's wife, and we know how he goes with that. 

 

But seriously, I didn't get much confidence from that. BR was leading with what really weren't even questions, and he gave a bunch of blasé pat answers. 
I should say it this way,, i have confidence we will get it done. If McCloughan has an IQ anywhere north of 25 he should be able to see how well Kirk is playing, and should not allow cap worries to jeopardize locking him up. It has to happen.
Which is why if we **** it up it will be so devastating that i won't even be able to care anymore.

 

~Bang

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 hours ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Ok, while physically Manning was a shell. An utter shell of his former self. He still is maybe the BEST qb of all time pre snap. That is 100% an elite trait to have in a situational footbal. 

 

Kind of.  I mean if he can read a defense and audible into an effective running play or something that might be true.  But it doesn't matter if he's got a noodle arm and can't get the ball where it needs to go no matter how many pre-snap adjustments he makes.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

4 hours ago, Rattlesnake88 said:

Ok, while physically Manning was a shell. An utter shell of his former self. He still is maybe the BEST qb of all time pre snap. That is 100% an elite trait to have in a situational footbal. 

I agree with the larger idea that having a franchise QB is better for consistent long term success, but There are about 25 QBs that could have won a ring with Denvers team last year 

[RedskinsMayne]

54 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

I agree with the larger idea that having a franchise QB is better for consistent long term success, but There are about 25 QBs that could have won a ring with Denvers team last year 

 

 

eh.... peyton put the offense in favorable positions that kept them on the field longer and didn't force the ball. Not saying that he was the best playing, i'm saying that despite having zero physical ability, his mental game kept him elite. You can't say you'd rather have a kapernack? or weeden over a grimpy manning, in any situation.

[TSO]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

But seriously, I didn't get much confidence from that. BR was leading with what really weren't even questions, and he gave a bunch of blasé pat answers. 

 

I agree, it would totally be devastating if Kirk didn't sign long term. I mean, I NEVER predict things as a rule of thumb. There are so many variables and you often end up looking foolish doing so, and even when you get something right you get a false sense of pride that isn't healthy. 

 

But I did just that last offseason when I insisted they'd come to a long term agreement with Kirk. I was sure of it! Lesson learned and a verification of the above philosophy.   

 

So I know where you're coming from, brother. I was shocked when they didn't, but I was willing to understand Scot's position. 

 

But, I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you here. The man has been straightforward since the beginning. He doesn't really give cookie cutter answers. There's little to no doubt in my mind he means what he's saying in that interview. 

 

You're claiming the interviewer was "leading" with his questions... you're right, but guess what? Look closely at the part towards the end of what I quoted, Scot is actually disagreeing with him and challenging his point (bolded emphasis mine): 

 

Quote

SM: The thing about nowadays—and you're completely right—but the thing about nowadays is the way the season is set up and the way the game is set up, it's about scoring points.

B/R: Absolutely, but in the postseason, it becomes about defense.

SM: Right, but you have to get there first. It's set up for us. It's like in baseball, everybody wants to see the home run. In football, everybody wants to see the touchdown. ... Yeah, it's a good problem to have if you have a great defense and you have to pay people. But you'll take a quarterback over three defensive players. That's just the way it is. No doubt about it.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2629584-scot-mccloughan-qa-the-philosophy-and-tools-of-a-successful-nfl-gm

 

If your claim is accurate about him being blasé, why doesn't Scot just say there "yeah, true, gotta have a great defense or nothing else works"... and this came after he agreed about "overpaying" at QB. That's a pretty direct, detailed response that isn't based on the interviewer leading him. 

 

I just can't read that and come away with your assessment that he's just giving "blasé" answers. It's quite the opposite for me. Furthermore, if he was doing that it'd be a complete shift in how he interviews normally, as he's always been extremely straightforward and direct. 

 

I don't know, that interview certainly gave me confidence. Maybe I'm putting too much into it, though.

 

But the guy was pretty much saying exactly what @TD_washingtonredskins was about building around a QB and how it's a constant struggle to pay defensive players in his post above, that you and I quoted and agreed with. You then expounded on his post about how the league is set up for "pass pass pass". 

 

This is EXACTLY what Scot is saying above and generally in that interview pretty much verbatim.