Kirk Cousins 2017 contract discussion/prediction

[Hooper]

I think he's plenty thick-skinned. But I'm sure also would like to take a breath and know one bad game out of three or four will be treated like it is for every other quality NFL QB.

 

 

 

 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

22 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Really all his yards mean is he's good at not going 3-and-out. We're about to pay a QB 24-25 million a year because he's super duper good at not going three-and-out.

 

Not going 3-and-out is actually pretty important.  I get your point but let's not turn a blind eye to what is imoportant...yes points...but you need 1st downs to get points.  How many wins do you think this team would have if the OFF wasn't consistanly moving the ball between the 20s (even with the terrible redzone %)?  They are a terrible DEF (historically bad in some catagorys) right now...just image how bad they'd be if this team wasn't moving the ball so well.

[Hooper]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

I dunno. He would get a big contract but would he necessarily do well? He might be going to a team with no weapons at all, or with an OL that blows at pass pro. He has also had quite a bit of success in Gruden's system. He had some experience in Kyle's but it was relatively limited. Who knows how comfortable he would be in going into another system and being expected to be one of the best in the game (per his contract numbers).

 

Depends on the situation for sure. 

 

But playing for the Skins has more negatives than most of us want to admit.

 

 

1 minute ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

 

Not going 3-and-out is actually pretty important.  I get your point but let's not turn a blind eye to what is imoportant...yes points...but you need 1st downs to get points.  How many wins do you think this team would have if the OFF wasn't consistanly moving the ball between the 20s (even with the terrible redzone %)?  They are a terrible DEF (historically bad in some catagorys) right now...just image how bad they'd be if this team wasn't moving the ball so well.

Or imagine what KC's stats would be if had a defense that could get off the damn field.

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Or imagine what KC's stats would be if had a defense that could get off the damn field.

Or gave them a short field, you know, ever.

 

I think the most impressive thing about Kirk is that he's doing all of this with virtually no running game and no defense.  He does have a pretty stacked offense, though. 

[zeroburrito]

On 12/20/2016 at 0:59 AM, PartyPosse said:

Out of all the 5,000 yard seasons the lowest total of TD passes is 39. Cousins is on pace for 26.

 

yards are meaningless.

this is only true if there isn't a rb that is siphoning the td's from the qb at goal situations.

 

if your qb has 5000 yards 26 td's while your rushers have 25+...then those yards obviously mattered.

 

rodgers right now has a ton of td's because the rushers don't get any at all(32 pass 10 rush = 42).

 

now look at dak. 20 passing td's, but they have 22 rushing td's(20 + 22 = 42, same as greenbay). lots of those td's were inside the 5 yard line. no reason to pass when you can run it from there successfully.

 

both have around the same yards per game, but rodgers is not getting siphoned from rushers.

 

now in kirks case, you're correct. the redskins only have 13 rushing td's. i'm just pointing out that yards are not meaningless in the right circumstance.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, zeroburrito said:

 

 

now in kirks case, you're correct. the redskins only have 13 rushing td's. i'm just pointing out that yards are not meaningless in the right circumstance.

 

So what you're saying is that in Kirk's case, yards are meaningless. 

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

 

So what you're saying is that in Kirk's case, yards are meaningless. 

Yeah, he was basically admitting the point, because the point he was quoting is hard to argue. He was just also trying to obfuscate by talking about something that has nothing to do with our situation. 

[skinfan2k]

Clearly people dont understand supply and demand.

[mistertim]

8 hours ago, zeroburrito said:

 

rodgers right now has a ton of td's because the rushers don't get any at all(32 pass 10 rush = 42).

 

now look at dak. 20 passing td's, but they have 22 rushing td's(20 + 22 = 42, same as greenbay). lots of those td's were inside the 5 yard line. no reason to pass when you can run it from there successfully.

 

both have around the same yards per game, but rodgers is not getting siphoned from rushers.

 

Or it could be because Rodgers is an elite QB who doesn't have to have a good running game to score TDs, or is even a better option many times than running the ball in the red zone because he is so good. 

[skinscantbestopped]

How many of you would consider two first rounders from Cleveland for Kirk?

 

[jbird2]

2 minutes ago, skinscantbestopped said:

How many of you would consider two first rounders from Cleveland for Kirk?

How many of you would consider two first rounders from Cleveland for Kirk?

 

Hey maybe would could draft a real fast running QB that we could run the wildcat with? 

 

If they let Cousins walk.... ....It would be worse than letting Lorenzo Alexander get away. :)

[skinscantbestopped]

4 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

Hey maybe would could draft a real fast running QB that we could run the wildcat with? 

 

If they let Cousins walk.... ....It would be worse than letting Lorenzo Alexander get away. :)

 

Dont get me wrong, I like Kirk but I dont LOVE him...I LOVE our receiving core...I think top to bottom (WR, TE, RB) we have the best receiving core in the league and I'm on the side of keeping them over Kirk (if he wont take a team friendly contract) and invest in some SERIOUS improvements to the defense, and more OL help. I'm not really into the sexy top QB in the draft pick. I think if you look around the league there are more mid rounders performing well in this league then there are 1st rounders. Also, I dont want a Marino situation that has us dominate at the QB position and terrible/mediocre everywhere else for the next 10 years and Kirk retires one of the best QB's that never won a super bowl...ijs

[Fat Stupid Loser]

20 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Or gave them a short field, you know, ever.

 

I think the most impressive thing about Kirk is that he's doing all of this with virtually no running game and no defense.  He does have a pretty stacked offense, though. 

Well. he has great passing game weaponry. We can't run, at all. So I'm not as stoked about how great this offense is. We are extremely one-dimensional. And as good as we can be in that one dimension, a decent defense can limit even a great one-dimensional offense's production. Which means Kirk has to set the field on fire every game, or we lose. That is an unrealistic expectation of any QB every week.

[skinzplay]

21 hours ago, Hooper said:

My guess is Cousins will want to move on if Kyle Shanahan gets a gig and needs a QB. I would if I was him. I'm sure he loves playing for Gruden and McVay and loves the weapons he has, but everything else is a negative. 

 

 

 

 

This is my worry. I think Kyle will get a job this off-season (probably SF or the Rams), and will put together a solid, impressive staff. I hope that KC stays with the Redskins and accepts a salary that allows the team to build other areas; could be very tempting to follow Kyle, though.

[goskins10]

21 hours ago, Hooper said:

I think he's plenty thick-skinned. But I'm sure also would like to take a breath and know one bad game out of three or four will be treated like it is for every other quality NFL QB.

 

 

The only people talking about Monday as more than Kirk had a single bad game are mostly just a few fans and some stupid media. Assuming it's the same reaction in the lockerroom and the FO is a bit reckless. Fortunately neither the fans nor the media have any impact on what happens with Kirk and his contract.

 

There are some trends emerging. 4 straight games with an Int. Two out of the last 3 gms and lost fumble. 4 games in a row the off failed to score 10 pts or more in the first half. And he had one of his worst games as a pro Monday. Does that mean Kirk is not the guy long term? No. Not even close. But it is a fair criticism. To me the biggest problem is a lack of running game. Teams have now just decided to dare us to run. That makes it even more difficult for Kirk and the passing game. But Kirk owns some of it.

 

 

Quote

We need to either sign him to a long-term deal or move on. The DC media is brutal when it comes to QBs in general. But the last two years, where every single game has basically been a referendum on Cousins as the long-term guy is just insane.

 

My guess is Cousins will want to move on if Kyle Shanahan gets a gig and needs a QB. I would if I was him. I'm sure he loves playing for Gruden and McVay and loves the weapons he has, but everything else is a negative. 

 

Really do not understand this sentiment. How is "everything else negative."? What exactly is negative about a 4th rd draft pick being made a starter after the HC and GM went to bat for him. The whole he got his feelings hurt because of the contract stuff is just fan speak. If he does have a problem with it, he is not the man I believe him to be. He is much smarter and more adult than that.

 

 

 

[skinfan2k]

He will be a redskins for the next 10 years assuming we treat him right this offseason with a deal avg +23M a year

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, jbird said:

 

Hey maybe would could draft a real fast running QB that we could run the wildcat with? 

 

If they let Cousins walk.... ....It would be worse than letting Lorenzo Alexander get away. :)

 

People need to stop with Alexander stuff. He was a good STs guy here and that's it. He failed at 2 other stops AZ and also Oak - until he had a good 1st 7 gms in Buffalo. Since then he has been invisible. He had 9 sacks in 7 games. Since then he has 2.5 in the last 7 gms including 0 sacks in 5 of them. Should we really keep a guy on the roster because at some pt he may have a really good 7 gm stretch in his 10th yr? I am happy for LA. He is a good guy and was a good STs player here. But the team did not make a mistake letting him leave.

 

 

[jbird2]

1 hour ago, skinscantbestopped said:

 

Dont get me wrong, I like Kirk but I dont LOVE him...I LOVE our receiving core...I think top to bottom (WR, TE, RB) we have the best receiving core in the league and I'm on the side of keeping them over Kirk (if he wont take a team friendly contract) and invest in some SERIOUS improvements to the defense, and more OL help. I'm not really into the sexy top QB in the draft pick. I think if you look around the league there are more mid rounders performing well in this league then there are 1st rounders. Also, I dont want a Marino situation that has us dominate at the QB position and terrible/mediocre everywhere else for the next 10 years and Kirk retires one of the best QB's that never won a super bowl...ijs

 

Boss, there is a reason that 3 WR and 1 TE are looking amazing this year. I'll  give you a hint, it aint because teams are focusing on our running game.

 

How many WR's have had great years with Brady? Manning? Elway? Marino?

 

Yeah you need talent around you, but a great line and a good QB can make mediocre WR's shine.

 

What does Cousins have to do to be counted 'Worthy" of a big long-term contract? The guys is by far the best QB we have had in the history of the franchise, and he is breaking his own records this year. Oh BTW, this is his 2nd... 2nd!!!.... year starting.

 

 Yet you are telling me that Colt McCoy or Ryan Fitz... HECK LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET ROMO!!!! is the answer.

We have all this fantastic WR talent...(FYI, We probably wont have both DJax and Garcon next year.... ....gotta manage the $$) ...any QB can step behind that line and throw us through the playoffs to the SB!

 

Draft a RB in the first 3 rounds. Draft a DT or DE and a S or MLB that are FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Replace the lost WR with J Doc, Pick up the best S and remaining DL in the offseason or late draft rounds, and watch some really entertaining football next year.

 

Heck, they might catch a spark and a break and make the final wildcard this year.

 

Again, we are 1 Kirk Cousins away from being the 2016 Browns this year.

 

This D has been really bad.. 

[skinscantbestopped]

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

Boss, there is a reason that 3 WR and 1 TE are looking amazing this year. I'll  give you a hint, it aint because teams are focusing on our running game.

 

*I'll start my responses with the fact that I do LIKE Kirk, don't LOVE him.* 

I'm old enough to remember our Super Bowl runs and our Coaching Schemes, WR's, TE's, OL, DL and for the most part DB's combined to make our QB better and I'm on the side of that being the case in this situation (minus the Defensive references).

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

How many WR's have had great years with Brady? Manning? Elway? Marino?

 

I saw all these guys play the bulk of their careers and Kirk is none of these guys. Point to yards per game and Redskins records all you want but Kirk is not even close to any of the guys you mentioned (surprised you left out Montana).

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

Yeah you need talent around you, but a great line and a good QB can make mediocre WR's shine.

 

I believe the opposite is happening now with elite receiver talent and a very well coached OL has made a mediocre QB shine. It's schemes that have these receivers running wide open and I have seen Kirk miss them more than I'd like a $23-25 mil/yr QB to miss open receivers, not just this year but last year as well.

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

What does Cousins have to do to be counted 'Worthy" of a big long-term contract? The guys is by far the best QB we have had in the history of the franchise, and he is breaking his own records this year. Oh BTW, this is his 2nd... 2nd!!!.... year starting.

 

What he has to do to be "Worthy" of a big long term contract in my opinion is WIN GAMES! He is not that guy!...He does not take the team on his shoulders and go win the game. He strikes no fear in opponents 2 mins left in the game and down 3, left alone 6-7. Also, your comparing him to a bunch of 1-2 year QB's that have played for the Skins when we had a running game and defense. If Kirk had the running game of a Joe Gibbs team he would be breaking zero records because he would not drop back to pass nearly as much. 

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

 Yet you are telling me that Colt McCoy or Ryan Fitz... HECK LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET ROMO!!!! is the answer.

 

Never said anyone in particular was the answer but to be honest, if I had a hypothetical choice, I would take a top 5 defense, one or two more ballers on the line, our current receivers and Romo at a decent salary over Kirk and 2nd and 3rd stringers anchoring the defense, half of our current WR core, and a pieced together OL.

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

We have all this fantastic WR talent...(FYI, We probably wont have both DJax and Garcon next year.... ....gotta manage the $$) ...any QB can step behind that line and throw us through the playoffs to the SB!

 

It would be interesting where you rank guys like Rypien, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson, Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer...ect, ect...All of these guys won Super Bowls... FYI, we could keep our WR's if we dont mortgage the future on Kirk.

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

Draft a RB in the first 3 rounds. Draft a DT or DE and a S or MLB that are FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Replace the lost WR with J Doc, Pick up the best S and remaining DL in the offseason or late draft rounds, and watch some really entertaining football next year.

 

Thats a lot of draft picks that would have to pan out to where they all are solid starters within 3 years. Kirk has only started two years but this is his 5th year in the league at 28 years old. No spring chicken. In order for this plan of yours to work we would have to have INSANE drafts over the next two years and J Doc needs to not only play actual football games but be good enough to replace a Desean Jackson in year 2 with no playing time in year 1. That would give us Cousins at 31-32 years old...not too bad but not that good either and there would have to be a huge amount of luck involved.

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

Heck, they might catch a spark and a break and make the final wildcard this year.

 

Even though I would love an extra weekend of Redskins, this will only lower our draft pick. We are not a Super Bowl team and I dont think that is up for debate at all.

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

Again, we are 1 Kirk Cousins away from being the 2016 Browns this year.

 

Thats just inaccurate on so many levels.

 

27 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

This D has been really bad.. 

 

This is something we actually agree on...

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 12/20/2016 at 1:59 AM, PartyPosse said:

Out of all the 5,000 yard seasons the lowest total of TD passes is 39. Cousins is on pace for 26.

 

yards are meaningless.

That's factually incorrect. 

I put the list of 5,000 yard passers together a while ago.  I'm not going to look it up again, but if memory serves, the members of the 5,000 yard passing club are Marino, Brees, Brady, Peyton Manning and Stafford.  If yards were meaningless and it was easy to get to 5,000 yards, you wouldn't have 1 HOFer, 3 guys who have dates in Canton 5 years after their retirement date on the list.  The only outlier (kindof) is Stafford, who could be an MVP candidate this year. 

 

If Kirk gets there, it's a huge, amazing accomplishment.  Regardless of TD struggles.  Which is as much a team function as a Cousins function. 

[Tsailand]

2 hours ago, jbird said:

Draft a RB in the first 3 rounds. 

Like Matt Jones?

 

Reminder: Chris Thompson was a 5th round pick and R.Kelley an UFA.

 

And Alf was a 6th round pick.

[PartyPosse]

54 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That's factually incorrect. 

I put the list of 5,000 yard passers together a while ago.  I'm not going to look it up again, but if memory serves, the members of the 5,000 yard passing club are Marino, Brees, Brady, Peyton Manning and Stafford.  If yards were meaningless and it was easy to get to 5,000 yards, you wouldn't have 1 HOFer, 3 guys who have dates in Canton 5 years after their retirement date on the list.  The only outlier (kindof) is Stafford, who could be an MVP candidate this year. 

 

If Kirk gets there, it's a huge, amazing accomplishment.  Regardless of TD struggles.  Which is as much a team function as a Cousins function. 

All of those guys aren't HOFers because they just threw for a lot of yards. Outside of a lot of yards, what else has Cousins done really well?

[CommanderDOOM]

http://wtop.com/sports-columns/2016/12/the-reason-washington-shouldnt-pay-kirk-cousins/

 

Cousins is nothing more than a mediocre to good QB. Phillip Rivers,Russell Wilson, Ben Rothlisberger, and Matt Ryan are really good QBs and KC is not them.

 

Stafford, Cam, Eli, Tyrod, Flacco, and Smith  = good. 

 

Fitz, Cutler, Bradford, Tannehill, etc are the mediocre(s).

 

Is Cousins really that much better than Colt?? His price definately will be at 23+ million. Are we willing to further strap this team's resources and expect things to

get better? You have to pay for a good QB and I think Kirk has showed he can be that. But take away **** around him and he sucks. Without Reed, we suck. Pressured, we suck. Non-dominating run game.......We have excellent weapons no denying that. Our line has the top LT some say. A mediocre to good RT. An okay center, Lg..., and a pro-bowl RG. The castle is just about built on O. If Kirk comes in talking about gold toilets and a more elaborate thrown he's gotta go. Hard for a  team to win the ship with a Qb making astronomical loot......lest that QB is great or Eli . If you think Kirk is that then lets do it and hope his pocket awareness rises.

[Est.1974]

Kirks a good QB. Gets you a safe .500 and other talent on the roster dictates the rest. I like the guy, think he deserves a deal.

 

However, I really have no idea what Scot Mcs thinking is. All bets are off for me right now, could go anyway......

[RedBeast]

How is it that people stand on the side of not resigning Kirk, and than walk away with A BIG FAT ZERO regarding any sort of recommendation or proposed strategy regarding who will play quarterback in his place for the next 3 to 5 years? Supply and demand was right my friend...Kirk is going to get 20M+ - from us or from someone else. If he leaves? Than watch the fan base wreak havoc as well as desert.

 

We still got some stank on this team which is slowly being lost, but only due to a few critical people in the FO. Don't think we are past our recent troubles of finding/attracting/signing highly qualified and successful football professionals to play/work here. Dan has definitely scorched some people in his first 15 years as an owner.

 

Sign Kirk; the mean average annual salary/cost will improve over the life of the contract. This will provide the organization the proper amount of time to meet short and mid term goals, as well as plan for mid term and beyond...how it should be approached and accomplished by a professional NFL franchise, IMO.

 

Knee jerk reactions or the "cutting off our nose to spite our face" management style only hurts the organization, the team and ultimately us as fans. Let's stop the hooligan frat style approach and get it right, once and for all, for the next 25 to 30 years.

 

HAIL!