Kirk Cousins 2017 contract discussion/prediction

[wit33]

24 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Out of all the 5,000 yard seasons the lowest total of TD passes is 39. Cousins is on pace for 26.

 

yards are meaningless.

 

Did you understand my post? 

I agree with you. 

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Did you understand my post? 

I agree with you. 

I was just quoting you for reference.

[aolforbroadband]

Here's my main beef with breaking the bank to keep Kirk: He needs quality talent around him to be successful.

 

He is not the Aaron Rodgers type to elevate a mediocre offense into a potent one by himself. We're already going to lose Jackson or Garcon, or possibly both...and if Doctson and Reed can't stay on the field, you will see Kirk struggle a lot more in the coming years.

 

Busts like Osweiler will only drive up the price of a competent starter like Kirk up though, so I expect them to probably overpay him since there isn't much out there as an alternative.

[RandyHolt]

In the modern NFL, it almost doesn't matter how well a QB plays - good on most days is good enough.  Demand dictates price as much as top end performance.

 

Kirk's shortcomings.... pressure. Same as all QBs, I know. The Cats showed a 2 ILB blitz often [masked who was coming] and it rattled him. #HappyFeet. In a pivotal game like last night, I felt like he needed to find a safe spot in the pocket, absorb an indirect hit, and try a playoff saving throw. Once he gets flushed, the play is almost always over. He rarely seems able to get squared up, and chucks it out of bounds to avoid an INT.

 

Probably from watching our "defense" over the years, I expect flushed QBs to occasionally complete passes. Backbreaking passes. We know DBs cannot cover forever. Off schedule now means a jog toward the sideline / throw away.  McVay could do better with viable hot routes to guys uncovered in the flat, like teams do to Barry weekly.

 

Bah it all doesn't matter; pay the man! He's good enough.

[skinsmania123]

I am just not sure here about Cousin's.   I think there is an OCD quality to Cousin's which is great for preparation, mechanics, progressions, etc.  But he is not the most flexible QB I have watched and did our OC miss this last night at least?  I mean he should have moved out of the pocket and slid left or right because he did not see the field well in my opinion.  He just did not and the ball came out weird a few times.  Low passes, ahhh drops, etc.  Seemed like a mental thing to me last night.  And NO the O line was getting pushed back collapsing the pocket but adjustments could have been made.

 

Because of the collapsing pocket, relentless push up front I was hoping for for half time adjustment and it just did not come.  That poor field position to open the 3rd was the opportunity to move out of the damn pocket.  Throw into the flat.  Have a damn outlet. Very frustrating.

 

Cousin's should be paid what he is worth.  Last night he played very poorly.  The D actually kept us in the game.  So here we have a major game, we can punch our ticket and Cousin's was a main factor in us failing.  STILL I want to reserve my judgment until the next two games.  If he plays poorly against Chicago and possibly reserves against the Giants he is not worth top money.  December is the resume.  It is all about getting in the tournament ultimately and you have to have ice in your veins at times.  

[TheGreek1973]

The sentiment is he is going to want too much money which is probably correct.  Then the sentiment from some fans is he is not worth it.  Well what are the alternatives?

 

This situation was created because of GMSM and/or the front office not doing a deal with him last year when they should.  I strongly believe he would have done and he would have played better for it this year IMO.  Unless you guys love doing "job interviews" for years on end like this guy has done, having done his contract would have been beneficial for him and the team. Major fail on the GM

 

Now we are stuck with a major decision because the money will be at least top 5 if we are lucky, top money (yes as much as Luck or more) if we are not.  And that last point could be where we let him walk.  And once again I ask, THEN WHAT. 

[aREDSKIN]

1 minute ago, TheGreek1973 said:

The sentiment is he is going to want too much money which is probably correct.  Then the sentiment from some fans is he is not worth it.  Well what are the alternatives?

 

This situation was created because of GMSM and/or the front office not doing a deal with him last year when they should.  I strongly believe he would have done and he would have played better for it this year IMO.  Unless you guys love doing "job interviews" for years on end like this guy has done, having done his contract would have been beneficial for him and the team. Major fail on the GM

 

Now we are stuck with a major decision because the money will be at least top 5 if we are lucky, top money (yes as much as Luck or more) if we are not.  And that last point could be where we let him walk.  And once again I ask, THEN WHAT. 

IMO KC didn't even EARN the franchise money this year. How many games did we lose specifically because of his efforts?  A franchsie paid QB really should not be in a position to lose any games for his team because of poor performance. There's only 16 days at the office and you want 20 mil and you play like that? Come on.

Thats going to be a problem. KC and his team will bend us over and will reduce the resources for the rest of the team. I know it's a problem every team faces but lets be real here. Its a difficult issue to face and resolve but something needs to be done. IMO KC just does not derserve that type of money given the performanceon the field.

[Tsailand]

4 hours ago, aREDSKIN said:

KC didn't even EARN the franchise money this year.

 

Which QBs do you think earned their salaries this year?

 

Please post something more intelligent than a list of QBs still on their rookie contracts or on teams with playoff-quality defenses.

[CommanderDOOM]

Well damn...'playoff-quality defenses' takes away Wilson, Smith, Stafford, Brady, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, and Taylor. Besides guys on their rookie deals A-rod, Brees, and Rivers are the only other QB's "earning" the money.....i guess.

 

[Tsailand]

1 hour ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Wilson, Smith, Stafford, Brady, Flacco, Ryan, Eli, and Taylor.

 

All making in the ballpark of $20M, like Kirk.  He has outplayed all of them except Brady and Ryan.  But in some people's minds, he "hasn't earned" the $20M, because he's the QB for a team with no defense or running game.

[Warhead36]

21 hours ago, aolforbroadband said:

Here's my main beef with breaking the bank to keep Kirk: He needs quality talent around him to be successful.

 

He is not the Aaron Rodgers type to elevate a mediocre offense into a potent one by himself. We're already going to lose Jackson or Garcon, or possibly both...and if Doctson and Reed can't stay on the field, you will see Kirk struggle a lot more in the coming years.

 

Busts like Osweiler will only drive up the price of a competent starter like Kirk up though, so I expect them to probably overpay him since there isn't much out there as an alternative.

I don't buy that argument. Every great QB has help. Brady has Gronk(or had). Manning for years had stud WRs(Harrison, Wayne, Thomas in Denver). Rivers has Gates(past his prime now though). Ryan had White and Gonzalez and now has Jones and a two headed monster RB.

 

People act like we have superstar receivers around Cousins but we really don't. Reed is top 5 at his position but besides that? I don't think Garcon, Jackson, or Crowder are top 10 WRs, maybe top 20. He's never had a run game. The OL is good but how much better do they look with a QB that actually gets rid of the ball. And he's never had a good D like Newton/Russell etc.

[goskins10]

16 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

In the modern NFL, it almost doesn't matter how well a QB plays - good on most days is good enough.  Demand dictates price as much as top end performance.

 

Kirk's shortcomings.... pressure. Same as all QBs, I know. The Cats showed a 2 ILB blitz often [masked who was coming] and it rattled him. #HappyFeet. In a pivotal game like last night, I felt like he needed to find a safe spot in the pocket, absorb an indirect hit, and try a playoff saving throw. Once he gets flushed, the play is almost always over. He rarely seems able to get squared up, and chucks it out of bounds to avoid an INT.

 

Probably from watching our "defense" over the years, I expect flushed QBs to occasionally complete passes. Backbreaking passes. We know DBs cannot cover forever. Off schedule now means a jog toward the sideline / throw away.  McVay could do better with viable hot routes to guys uncovered in the flat, like teams do to Barry weekly.

 

Bah it all doesn't matter; pay the man! He's good enough.

 

He is getting paid. And it will be in the $23M to $25M range. Probably good to start getting used to the idea now.

[PartyPosse]

I don't know if you need a top quality QB in WCO if you have enough weapons around. It helps for sure but if you have a quality OL and enough weapons most QBs should be able to thrive in this system. Do you honestly think Prescott is this good? He's the beneficiary of having drafted OLinemen consistently and having weapons in all the right places - a deep threat, a great x-receiver in Beasley, a clutch TE in Witten, an all-pro RB etc. 

[jbird2]

This team is 1 Kirk Cousins away from being the 2016 Browns.

 

Pay the man.

[jbird2]

9 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I don't know if you need a top quality QB in WCO if you have enough weapons around. It helps for sure but if you have a quality OL and enough weapons most QBs should be able to thrive in this system. Do you honestly think Prescott is this good? He's the beneficiary of having drafted OLinemen consistently and having weapons in all the right places - a deep threat, a great x-receiver in Beasley, a clutch TE in Witten, an all-pro RB etc. 

 

You think like me, except for the QB part. A decent QB will give you a decent WCO, but a really good QB will give you a really good WCO. People forget that KC is only in his 2nd year of leading the team, and I believe he is going to be a LOT better with a decent D, and complimentarily Running game.

 

I really like Reed, but I would "settle" for a decent TE that can catch the clutch ball, and stay healthy.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On 12/20/2016 at 10:20 AM, aREDSKIN said:

IMO KC didn't even EARN the franchise money this year. How many games did we lose specifically because of his efforts?  A franchsie paid QB really should not be in a position to lose any games for his team because of poor performance. There's only 16 days at the office and you want 20 mil and you play like that? Come on.

I'd be very interested to know which of our 6 losses you believe have been "specifically because" of Kirk Cousins. 

[mistertim]

On 12/20/2016 at 1:59 AM, PartyPosse said:

Out of all the 5,000 yard seasons the lowest total of TD passes is 39. Cousins is on pace for 26.

 

yards are meaningless.

Yeah I'm so sick of the "but look at all of the yards" argument. Yards are absolutely meaningless unless they translate well into TDs. His TDs to yards really highlights how he is great between the 20s but not good in the red zone. That isn't all on him, but he's part of it. He consistently looks far less comfortable and much more tentative in the red zone and he panics much easier. Not sure if that is just a general issue for him or if he's terrified of throwing red zone INTs...possibly for contract reasons? No clue, but the numbers don't lie...his TDs to yards thrown absolutely blows.

 

His yards thrown is pure fool's gold.

[kost203]

Hoping he takes a decent deal of 20-22m a year if we want to resign him and allows us to spend on the defense and play makers that make him tick. 

Key word"" hoping. 

[aREDSKIN]

29 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I'd be very interested to know which of our 6 losses you believe have been "specifically because" of Kirk Cousins. 

Pittsburg, 1STDallas and perhaps Carolina.There are KC threads from the begining of the year that talks about his performance in each of the games. Look KC is the best QB we've have had in a long time & I want him here but IMO he just doesn't strike me as consistent money. He's close and with the cap going up I guess 12-15% of the CAP spent on the QB is tolerable.JMO. We need so much help elsewhere and we'll need the resources to get that help.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

5 minutes ago, aREDSKIN said:

Pittsburg, 1STDallas and perhaps Carolina.There are KC threads from the begining of the year that talks about his performance in each of the games. Look KC is the best QB we've have had in a long time & I want him here but IMO he just doesn't strike me as consistent money. He's close and with the cap going up I guess 12-15% of the CAP spent on the QB is tolerable.JMO. We need so much help elsewhere and we'll need the resources to get that help.

 

I don't think he played all that great in either of the first two games...but our defense gave up 430 yards to the Steelers. In both games, our defense allowed the opponent to stay on the field for 32 or 33 minutes. Cousins contributed to both those losses...no doubt. But he was far from our biggest issue in either and certainly wasn't solely responsible. He played even worse this past Monday, but I still can't pin it all on him when the entire offense looked horrible. 

[mistertim]

I don't think you can ever "fully" blame the loss on one guy with very rare exceptions. That being said, a QB has more direct involvement in multiple facets of the game than another player on the team so I think it is fine to subject him to more scrutiny, when deserved. And I think there are games this year where that scrutiny is deserved. Monday was one of them.

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

Yeah I'm so sick of the "but look at all of the yards" argument. Yards are absolutely meaningless unless they translate well into TDs. His TDs to yards really highlights how he is great between the 20s but not good in the red zone. That isn't all on him, but he's part of it. He consistently looks far less comfortable and much more tentative in the red zone and he panics much easier. Not sure if that is just a general issue for him or if he's terrified of throwing red zone INTs...possibly for contract reasons? No clue, but the numbers don't lie...his TDs to yards thrown absolutely blows.

 

His yards thrown is pure fool's gold.

Really all his yards mean is he's good at not going 3-and-out. We're about to pay a QB 24-25 million a year because he's super duper good at not going three-and-out.

[Hooper]

We need to either sign him to a long-term deal or move on. The DC media is brutal when it comes to QBs in general. But the last two years, where every single game has basically been a referendum on Cousins as the long-term guy is just insane.

 

My guess is Cousins will want to move on if Kyle Shanahan gets a gig and needs a QB. I would if I was him. I'm sure he loves playing for Gruden and McVay and loves the weapons he has, but everything else is a negative. 

 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

9 minutes ago, Hooper said:

We need to either sign him to a long-term deal or move on. The DC media is brutal when it comes to QBs in general. But the last two years, where every single game has basically been a referendum on Cousins as the long-term guy is just insane.

 

My guess is Cousins will want to move on if Kyle Shanahan gets a gig and needs a QB. I would if I was him. I'm sure he loves playing for Gruden and McVay and loves the weapons he has, but everything else is a negative. 

 

 

 

25 million buys a lotta earplugs. 

 

Seriously though I would imagine he's more thick-skinned than that,

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Hooper said:

We need to either sign him to a long-term deal or move on. The DC media is brutal when it comes to QBs in general. But the last two years, where every single game has basically been a referendum on Cousins as the long-term guy is just insane.

 

My guess is Cousins will want to move on if Kyle Shanahan gets a gig and needs a QB. I would if I was him. I'm sure he loves playing for Gruden and McVay and loves the weapons he has, but everything else is a negative. 

 

 

 

I dunno. He would get a big contract but would he necessarily do well? He might be going to a team with no weapons at all, or with an OL that blows at pass pro. He has also had quite a bit of success in Gruden's system. He had some experience in Kyle's but it was relatively limited. Who knows how comfortable he would be in going into another system and being expected to be one of the best in the game (per his contract numbers).