DogofWar1 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 If there's any justice in the world, Puerto Rico will be remembered as an atrocity. It truly struck me when the number of dead came out. It was another 9-11, and it was self-inflicted by the incompetent response of Trump. The 2975 deaths makes it, as far as I can tell, the 2nd deadliest hurricane with regards to US citizens, behind only the Galveston Hurricane of 1900. It's just unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 13 hours ago, Renegade7 said: Am i too late to post this gem? It's tremendously big and tremendously wet. And not for a second did Stormy believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Let's hope California doesn't suffer a big earthquake during his term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busch1724 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 23 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: Let's hope California doesn't suffer a big earthquake during his term. Let the liberal, tree hugger, hippies out there suffer. Less dems to vote... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 hour ago, DogofWar1 said: If there's any justice in the world, Puerto Rico will be remembered as an atrocity. It truly struck me when the number of dead came out. It was another 9-11, and it was self-inflicted by the incompetent response of Trump. The 2975 deaths makes it, as far as I can tell, the 2nd deadliest hurricane with regards to US citizens, behind only the Galveston Hurricane of 1900. It's just unbelievable. Yeah, it's surreal how blasé Trump and his merry band of sociopaths are being about the deaths of 3,000 people. Not only blasé but complaining that they're not getting enough credit for doing a great job as well as STILL attacking the mayor of San Juan because she's critical of Trump. Absolutely NO WAY any of this would fly if it had happened in Texas or Florida. I truly believe Trump doesn't see Puerto Ricans as US citizens and people that he's responsible for the well-being of. Come to think of it, I'm not sure he even sees them as humans. And it drives me nuts how he keeps falling back on the "Well...it's an island! An ISLAND!" as if we're living in 1875 and we don't have airplanes yet and have to rely on steamboats to get things there. The bottom line is, like with everything else they've done so far, they had next to zero planning, no strategy, and no contingency plans. The incompetence is staggering, as is the lack of ****s given when they screw up. They just say they did great over and over again and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Only a third through and it really highlights how dangerous Trump is for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Bought my Kindle version yesterday. Going to get into it this evening after work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, mistertim said: Yeah, it's surreal how blasé Trump and his merry band of sociopaths are being about the deaths of 3,000 people. A little voice inside me, though, has to point out: About 2200 of those 3,000 people died a year after the hurricane. At least as far as the claims go. Far as I'm concerned, that 3,000 number has a really big asterisk on it. I give it about as much credibility as when the PLO claims that Israel killed <some number> of children. Was PR intentionally left to rot after a devastating hurricane? Absolutely. (I suppose you can debate whether that was because "they're brown" or "it's not like it'a America" or "they didn't vote for Trump". "Money handed out to crooked Trump cronies" probably a big factor, too.) I just think that the response was shameful enough without constantly grabbing for a statistic that's probably very exaggerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, mistertim said: And it drives me nuts how he keeps falling back on the "Well...it's an island! An ISLAND!" as if we're living in 1875 and we don't have airplanes yet and have to rely on steamboats to get things there. The bottom line is, like with everything else they've done so far, they had next to zero planning, no strategy, and no contingency plans. The incompetence is staggering, as is the lack of ****s given when they screw up. They just say they did great over and over again and move on. Precisely. The Berlin Airlift happened 70 damn years ago. There is zero excuse for leaving the island like that. 13 minutes ago, Larry said: A little voice inside me, though, has to point out: About 2200 of those 3,000 people died a year after the hurricane. At least as far as the claims go. Far as I'm concerned, that 3,000 number has a really big asterisk on it. I give it about as much credibility as when the PLO claims that Israel killed <some number> of children. Was PR intentionally left to rot after a devastating hurricane? Absolutely. (I suppose you can debate whether that was because "they're brown" or "it's not like it'a America" or "they didn't vote for Trump". "Money handed out to crooked Trump cronies" probably a big factor, too.) I just think that the response was shameful enough without constantly grabbing for a statistic that's probably very exaggerated. I don't think its exaggerated. Its not an exact number, sure, but the number could be even higher. A study by Harvard said deaths could be around 4600 and maybe even higher, towards 5000. The official toll requires that either the body be brought to San Juan or confirmed by an officially locally. On an island with no power and devastated infrastructure, that's an obvious problem. And then we get to undercounting because lots of indirect deaths happen. People can't get to a hospital or can't be cared for once there. Maybe its not storm related directly, but but for the hurricane, they don't die. Like imagine a person is repairing a roof, and falls. They go to a hospital, and would have survived if cared for, but the hospital has no power due to the storm. Is it a storm related death? I think so. Would it be counted officially? Probably not. The fact that these deaths happened after the storm cuts both ways for Trump too. If a Cat 5 rolls through and kills 1000 people in the first day, maybe the government could have done more preventative work but generally they're off the hook barring some major **** up (levees and Katrina, for example). But if the storm kills 10 people but 990 die in the next three months, that suggests a failed response. Once the storm is over, its the government's job to get in there and help. It can't just wash its hands of post-storm deaths bc they happened post-storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: But if the storm kills 10 people but 990 die in the next three months, that suggests a failed response. Once the storm is over, its the government's job to get in there and help. Oh, I think if I want to beat Trump over the head for the response, my attack would be more along the lines of "Six months after the hurricane, 70% of the island was still without electricity and clean water". (I made that statistic up, but it's in the ballpark of what I think happened). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said: "And by the way this wealthy New Yorker actually earned his money. It wasn't a gift from Daddy." Now, now. A good chunk of it was from laundering Russian mob money, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Larry said: Oh, I think if I want to beat Trump over the head for the response, my attack would be more along the lines of "Six months after the hurricane, 70% of the island was still without electricity and clean water". (I made that statistic up, but it's in the ballpark of what I think happened). That's a part of it too, but people are bad at understanding things where they need to analyze a level deeper or two. Like sure, that's bad, but until there are deaths attached to it, it won't register with people. And even then, people are bad at understanding death numbers (insert famous Stalin quote here). And that's just addressing peoples' inability to understand numbers and severity of problems. It says nothing of the pushback, which we've already seen in the form of "well Puerto Rico was basically a ****hole already so the govt shouldn't get held responsible for infrastructure problems." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Come January, House Republicans will start playing that cute game where they pretend they care about the deficit again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 1 minute ago, DogofWar1 said: It says nothing of the pushback, which we've already seen in the form of "well Puerto Rico was basically a ****hole already so the govt shouldn't get held responsible for infrastructure problems." Actually, I would have no problem at all believing that PR had a much more fragile electrical grid than the US norm. And that it contributed to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 NVM Jamie Dimon don't want that smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Why am I Mr. Pink? Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Isnt the actual number less than 1k because, to be officially counted, you needed a certificate of death stating hurricane caused it and doctors in PR didnt necessarily follow protocol. Werent the big "unofficial" numbers taken from 22% increase in deaths for the 6 months post hurricane? Im not a fan of comparing 9/11 to hurricanes, both tragic but totally separate situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsFan44 Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Come January, House Republicans will start playing that cute game where they pretend they care about the deficit again. The Ds need to be careful and focus on repealing the things that caused the deficit increase. I believe 2018 - 2020 should be the beginning of undoing the harm Trump et al have caused, save social programs for after 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: Isnt the actual number less than 1k because, to be officially counted, you needed a certificate of death stating hurricane caused it and doctors in PR didnt necessarily follow protocol. Werent the big "unofficial" numbers taken from 22% increase in deaths for the 6 months post hurricane? The original number was like 16 or something, but kept going up in the days following the storm. Trump was bragging about how few people died compared to other storms after it hit. The official count stopped at 69 for a while, but it was suspected that a lot more people died because of the hurricane. The current number was determined by a commission set up by the governor of Puerto Rico and includes people who died in the months after the hurricane who likely would not have died if not for the hurricane and it’s aftermath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said: The Ds need to be careful and focus on repealing the things that caused the deficit increase. I believe 2018 - 2020 should be the beginning of undoing the harm Trump et al have caused, save social programs for after 2020. I'm thinking it's well past time for the Dems to start claiming the fiscal conservative title. For one thing, it's an attack which can easily be applied to the entire GOP, and for much longer than Trump has been around. (Makes it harder for the GOP to run away from it.) I think the sound bite I'd use would be: The last time a Republican left office with a smaller deficit than when he took office, the President was Eisenhower. The last time a Democratic President left office with a bigger deficit than when he took office, the President was FDR. My second sound bite would be And no, pointing fingers at Social Security and Medicare A, the only two parts of the federal budget which have not contributed a single dime to the deficit, and yelling that somebody else must pay for the tax cuts I just handed out, by changing these two things, isn't going to fly, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The Fear is running rampant among Republicans in the WH, Trump Tower, and Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 It’s really dangerous to have Trump narrate a warning like that, because most sane people don’t believe a word coming out of his mouth. People are liable to hear it from him and say “Bull****, I’m staying put.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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