PF Chang Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Obama didn't do enough. We should probably blame the actual crooks for the crime though. Donald Trump and his campaign are under investigation for conspiracy to defraud the US. Maybe he's innocent. He sure as hell isn't acting like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 40 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Was the 2 % a NEW mark to hit in 14 or was that always the mark just nobody but us bothered to meet it? And then in 14 they all promised to do it within 10 years? Again I say, why should we be okay with that? Should we continue to be the worlds police force and foot the bill for it disproportionately? I can think Trumps tactics are terrible while agreeing the rest of NATO needs to pull more weight. And in the Germans case, stop aiding the "enemy". I don’t see the point in getting upset at something we will never get. We should not expect most NATO countries to drastically change the way they do things, though we will likely see increase in spending to get at least some of them closer to the mark over the years to come, assuming NATO is still around. In the case of Germany (where yes they are somewhat annoyingly tied to Russia because of the Nordstream) what exactly are we asking them to do, or is it just a bull**** attempt by Trump to deflect from his own Russia ties by blaming someone else, as he always does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 In all fairness to Obama, what is he to do? He sanctioned them and kicked some ambassadors out. If he comes out and says that Russia is rigging the election for Trump, what does that look like? I think Obama did his level best to protect our democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 45 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Was the 2 % a NEW mark to hit in 14 or was that always the mark just nobody but us bothered to meet it? And then in 14 they all promised to do it within 10 years? Again I say, why should we be okay with that? Should we continue to be the worlds police force and foot the bill for it disproportionately? I can think Trumps tactics are terrible while agreeing the rest of NATO needs to pull more weight. And in the Germans case, stop aiding the "enemy". I'd trust the intelligence (big I and little i) of the previous administration over this one's. They made that call back in 2014. The reality (to me) is that we need NATO and NATO needs us. I would hope all allies see it that way although I'm not sure this admin does. As an aside...the Stormy Daniels story is crazy. Seems like it's only stoking the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 More tanned doofus news... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Honestly the Korean veteran issue is mostly sad. While it was silly of Trump to talk about parents of Korean war veterans telling him things directly, since there probably aren't any left, ultimately there are many veterans, children, and grandchildren left who would like to see remains returned. Had Trump merely said "we are working to bring them home" it would have been fine, but he had to lie and say they had already been returned. Now they're not going to be. At least not any time soon. It's just that Trump's lie was so unnecessary that makes it so despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Sociopaths habitually lie. To the point where their lies aren't even thought of as lies to them. It's what he does best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, Springfield said: In all fairness to Obama, what is he to do? He sanctioned them and kicked some ambassadors out. If he comes out and says that Russia is rigging the election for Trump, what does that look like? I think Obama did his level best to protect our democracy. Naw he needed to cause that **** storm to avoid this one. I think, atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: More tanned doofus news... That's okay cause Trump already brought us peace there. Well according to Trump supports on Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PF Chang Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, Springfield said: In all fairness to Obama, what is he to do? He sanctioned them and kicked some ambassadors out. If he comes out and says that Russia is rigging the election for Trump, what does that look like? I think Obama did his level best to protect our democracy. It's a tough issue, made more difficult by Trump telling his cultists that the election would be rigged against him. I said Obama should have done more earlier, but what exactly? Nobody ever seems to say what exactly he should have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 35 minutes ago, Llevron said: Naw he needed to cause that **** storm to avoid this one. I think, atleast. Hindsight is always 20/20. Further, if the FBI hadn't broken protocol in the couple days before the election, Hillary probably still wins. There were about a dozen factors all working together in concert that allowed Trump to win. Any one of them goes the other way and he probably loses. If you're Obama, you probably don't want to upset those odds in a way you can't predict. Of course, he couldn't have known about the late stage Weiner laptop situation, which is probably what pushed the electoral college needle over the line (which in of itself has a long backstory), and by the time that came out, any sudden anti-Trump statement re: Russian interference was likely to backfire. If it was gonna happen, it needed to happen earlier, and ideally from the FBI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Instead of picking and choosing and trying to decide what would most benefit the person he supported, he could have simply dealt with each situation neutrally. The idea that he didn't because he was afraid of what Trump would do or the way it would look if Hillary had won after he came out with that info, or the optics of it is a sad commentary. "Russia is messing with our elections, and we are going to do XXXXX" Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Instead of picking and choosing and trying to decide what would most benefit the person he supported, he could have simply dealt with each situation neutrally. The idea that he didn't because he was afraid of what Trump would do or the way it would look if Hillary had won after he came out with that info, or the optics of it is a sad commentary. "Russia is messing with our elections, and we are going to do XXXXX" Simple. What should he have done that wouldn't make things worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcl05 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: "Russia is messing with our elections, and we are going to do XXXXX" Simple. I think the idea that there is a "simple" answer to what XXXXX should be is absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: "Donald Trump obviously doesn’t understand how NATO functions. " For Christ's sake he doesn't ****ing care! The Left keeps trying to teach Trump and set the facts straight, Trump doens't give a ****. By the time this lie has been set straight he's told six more, and done something even more underhanded. He's a lying son of a **** who is ****ting on the table and calling it diplomacy all so he can do the bidding of his Russian master. Stop treating Trump like he just innocently got his facts wrong, this is all planned and deliberate. He can rot in hell and take his co-dependent supporters with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 I'm hyped for this show. These guys are just helping the Cohen's ratings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, visionary said: What should he have done that wouldn't make things worse? Worse than what we got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Worse than what we got? So.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Obama didnt do enough because he was afraid that it would hurt Hillary after she won. It's the same reason Comey is using for why he did what he did. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Obama didnt do enough because he was afraid that it would hurt Hillary after she won. It's the same reason Comey is using for why he did what he did. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 1. Still not seeing an answer. 2. This is interesting way to look at it if we were to apply this logic to how Democrats and others at odds with the administration should deal with Trump and the GOP now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, visionary said: 1. Still not seeing an answer. 2. This is interesting way to look at it if we were to apply this logic to how Democrats and others at odds with the administration should deal with Trump and the GOP now. I have no idea what is acceptable or even allowed as far as an answer (ie sanctions etc). But he certainly could have made it a primary news item and potentially stopped Russia or limited their influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: Instead of picking and choosing and trying to decide what would most benefit the person he supported, he could have simply dealt with each situation neutrally. The idea that he didn't because he was afraid of what Trump would do or the way it would look if Hillary had won after he came out with that info, or the optics of it is a sad commentary. "Russia is messing with our elections, and we are going to do XXXXX" Simple. Yes, I'm sure all those reasonable Trump supporters would have calmly accepted that at face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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