Rawstory: Dash cam video shows unarmed black man with hands in air before Tulsa police shoot him dead

[USS Redskins]

4 minutes ago, KLJ said:

a lot of people know what that is.  it's traumatic brain injury.  

And allot of people don't... Cops probably didn't hear a word she said, anyway... Just background noise. 

I do feel for her though, that must have been awful.

[KLJ]

1 minute ago, USS Redskins said:

And allot of people don't... Cops probably didn't hear a word she said, anyway... Just background noise. 

oh, i agree with you 100%.  people yelling from the sidelines in situations like this just makes the situation worse.

[Chew]

Police Chief said they're NOT going to release their video (body cams, dash cams), right?

Cuz the first car on scene (looks like an UC expedition) is pointed directly at Scott's car.  That would tell us everything.

[PCS]

Lot's of demand for that video and the video above clearly is and going to up that demand exponentially. Go figure. Chief's got about a week before the new law goes in to effect. See what happens as that demand and subsequent pressure ratchets up. 

[Destino]

58 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

That strikes me as an absolutely terrible idea.

Little Johnny, here is how you must behave when the crushing power of the police state crashes down on your head. Learn to acquiesce like a good little boy.

Better little Johnny imagines his behavior is acceptable and finds himself not only in a physical confrontation with police but also charged with resisting arrest?  Dealing with armed agents of the government is always better when you don't know the rules.

 

[s0crates]

Just now, Destino said:

Better little Johnny imagines his behavior is acceptable and finds himself not only in a physical confrontation with police but also charged with resisting arrest?  Dealing with armed agents of the government is always better when you don't know the rules.

 

 

I tend to agree, although I'll add that the rules seem to be less "the US Constitution guarantees due process" and more "the guy with the gun makes the rules."

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

8 minutes ago, Destino said:

Better little Johnny imagines his behavior is acceptable and finds himself not only in a physical confrontation with police but also charged with resisting arrest?  Dealing with armed agents of the government is always better when you don't know the rules.

 

Do we have separate classes for black kids and white kids? Because that's what is truly needed if you are going to go down this route. One group needs to be on their absolute best behavior in these interactions.

[twa]

While we await video, since the pic of the gun I provided isn't enough....character assassination or relevant info?

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/22/report-charlottes-keith-scott-had-history-of-violence-including-arrest-for-shooting-at-police/

Scott was convicted in April 2004 of a misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon charge in Mecklenburg County, and other charges were dismissed: including felony assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, assault on a female, and communicating threats.  Scott was also charged with assault with intent to kill in 1995.  [ Texas Arrest Record Here ]

The most shocking find in Scott’s record, however, is what occurred in Bexar County, Texas in 2005.  In March of that year, Scott was sentenced to 15 months in state prison for evading arrest, and in July, he was consecutively sentenced to seven years on a conviction of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.

..

One source, who asked CTN to refrain from using her name to protect her identity, told reporters that Scott fired a handgun at San Antonio police officers when they attempted to detain him in February 2005 after noticing that he was driving erratically.  (Scott had a history of drunk driving, according to court records).

Allegedly, as the officers approached Scott’s black Ford sedan, he fired two rounds from the driver’s seat and then sped away.  Neither of the officers was hit, and they proceeded to give chase and detain Scott several blocks away.

While Scott did leave the gun in his passenger’s seat when he attempted to run on-foot, he did, according to our source, assault one officer by punching him in the face.

Scott was released from Texas state prison in 2011.  (read more)

 

 

[Mooka]

40 minutes ago, s0crates said:

It is hard to tell what's going on in the video, but it looks to me like he was in the minivan with the open passenger door. If you pause the video right before the shooting (0:50-0:52 on the NBC version http://www.nbcnews.com/video/exclusive-video-moments-leading-up-to-charlotte-shooting-of-keith-scott-771901507743 ), you can see Keith Scott standing in a couple frames (wearing a white hat and blue pants). 

Again it would sure help clear things up to have the body cam and dash cam videos. I don't understand the state's rationale for witholding them, and I'm highly irritated with our legislature and governor in NC for passing a law  forbidding the release of such videos.

It does look like he came from the minivan based on where he was shot, but the minivan with the door open is directly behind the white SUV, and not really parked. Looks more like it was one the officers rolling up on the white SUV. You can also hear the police trying to bash a window open, which they wouldn't do if there was a door open. (I'm assuming) 

Odd looking event. Guy is just standing there with all the guns drawn on him, with a gun in his hand? Just looking at that alone, I'd say this guy was suicidal. 

 

*think it was the blue minvan afterall, early reports were talking about the blue minivan. 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

7 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Do we have separate classes for black kids and white kids? Because that's what is truly needed if you are going to go down this route. One group needs to be on their absolute best behavior in these interactions.

We could have separate classes for holding a gun and not holding a gun? 

[Gamebreaker]

14 minutes ago, twa said:

While we await video, since the pic of the gun I provided isn't enough....character assassination or relevant info?

Isn't enough for what? 

And sorry, there are just some websites I refuse to accept any information from. 

Also, yes this is a classic case of character assassination and the only reason that website posted it is to justify a potential wrongful shooting. Nothing stated has any bearing on what happened Tuesday. The same way Officer Betty's history shouldn't have been made public either. 

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

Do we have separate classes for black kids and white kids? Because that's what is truly needed if you are going to go down this route. One group needs to be on their absolute best behavior in these interactions.

Sure, but I think it would be more helpful if everyone had attend the black version.  It would almost certainly be less boring.  Plus sending white kids home asking if it's true that police officers are allowed to use pain to encourage compliance even if they're only mistake was pausing to ask a question could be transformative.  The culture in most of the US has changed, we don't generally raise kids to be unquestioningly obedient these days.  Parents will enjoy reconciling the lessons they've imparted hoping to raise a confident young adult, with the grim realities that police can respond to any refusal to immediately comply with force.  

"Well munchkin its good to ask questions and violence is terrible, as you well know, but if you don't kiss the pavement the moment they tell you too they can pepper spray, electrocute, or beat you a variety of things.  I'll let your Dad cover the details on that, you know how much he enjoys action movies.  But don't you worry about that because you're a good boy, now go wash up for dinner. 

Oh and Timmy, one last thing, make sure to keep your hands away from your pockets or body because if you reach for your phone or ID, or even something instinctive like to pull up your shorts, they'll shoot you dead."

 

 

[twa]

1 hour ago, Gamebreaker said:

Isn't enough for what? 

And sorry, there are just some websites I refuse to accept any information from. 

Also, yes this is a classic case of character assassination and the only reason that website posted it is to justify a potential wrongful shooting. Nothing stated has any bearing on what happened Tuesday. The same way Officer Betty's history shouldn't have been made public either. 

 

enough to show a gun was there

You don't trust the NYT or the local TV station?

I think history repeats itself and you can learn from it....not controlling though.

but then I believe in free will as well 

[s0crates]

1 hour ago, twa said:

While we await video, since the pic of the gun I provided isn't enough....character assassination or relevant info?

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/22/report-charlottes-keith-scott-had-history-of-violence-including-arrest-for-shooting-at-police/

Scott was convicted in April 2004 of a misdemeanor assault with a deadly weapon charge in Mecklenburg County, and other charges were dismissed: including felony assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill, assault on a female, and communicating threats.  Scott was also charged with assault with intent to kill in 1995.  [ Texas Arrest Record Here ]

 

 

Though Mr. Scott's criminal record is certainly suggestive, I prefer to focus on the facts of the case.

You're right we'll have to wait for the state's video, because I don't think that photo is any more conclusive than the wife's video. The gun in the photo isn't visible from the same angle in the video, so it must have gotten there later. How did it get there? Here are the explanations I've come up with, in order from most likely to least likely:

1. It was taken off his person and placed there.

2. It was planted there.

3. It was taken from his car and placed there.

4. The picture is photoshopped.

5. It was one of the officers' guns.

Given that, I'll grant that 1 is the best explanation, and he probably did have a gun. But then why not release the video confirming that? I can think of these reasons:

1. The state has something to hide.

2. To protect the police from prosecution.

This seems to be McCrory's thinking based on what he said about signing our new public record law here in NC.

"We have been trying evaluate how we can deal with technology. How can it help us, and how can we work with it so it doesn't also work against our police officers and public safety officials?"

That doesn't sound like recipe for accountability to me.

3. For public safety, also cited as a reason for the new law.

This seems like a dubious reason to me. It's hard to see how the public knowing what its officials are doing threatens the public.

4. Maybe something about tainting the jury pool?

This seems dubious too. Anybody who would watch the video would have an opinion about the case already, and the public knowing the facts should not prevent a fair trial.

Given those reasons, I'm more inclined to agree with the ACLU on this:

"Body cameras should be a tool to make law enforcement more transparent and accountable to the communities they serve. People who are filmed by police body cameras should not have to spend time and money to go to court in order to see that footage. These barriers are significant and we expect them to drastically reduce any potential this technology had to make law enforcement more accountable to community members."

Absent some compelling reason to think otherwise, I believe the actions of our police should be a matter of public record.

http://www.wral.com/mccrory-signs-police-video-bill/15843928/

[Chew]

 

1:45 mark there is nothing on the ground to the right of Scott's body.  1:52, clear as day, there is now a gun on the ground to tue right of Scott, in front of the black guys white shoe.  It wasn't there, now it's there.

After watching again, he actually drops the gun right next to the body

[Destino]

20 minutes ago, youngchew said:

 

1:45 mark there is nothing on the ground to the right of Scott's body.  1:52, clear as day, there is now a gun on the ground to tue right of Scott, in front of the black guys white shoe.  It wasn't there, now it's there.

Was that Scott's gun and they picked it up in case he would reach for it?  Even though it looks like he was dying or already dead moments after they shot him

That object seems to be behind the cop in the red at 1:13.  No one else goes near it, so it looks like he moved it closer to the body.  I'm not saying he planted it, or even that it's a gun, only that it looks like he moved it. 

Also, best to avoid the youtube comments. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

14 minutes ago, youngchew said:

 

1:45 mark there is nothing on the ground to the right of Scott's body.  1:52, clear as day, there is now a gun on the ground to tue right of Scott, in front of the black guys white shoe.  It wasn't there, now it's there.

Was that Scott's gun and they picked it up in case he would reach for it?  Even though it looks like he was dying or already dead moments after they shot him

I don't think that's the gun.  If you look at it frame by frame, slowing it down, it almost looks like it's a cloth or something.  You can see it fall from what appears to be the black officers waist/mid-section.  Of course her phone is shaky and it kind of cuts in and out of the frame.  

[Chew]

17 minutes ago, Destino said:

 I'm not saying he planted it

Neither am I.  Someone was talking about it on twitter, so I went back and watched. 

I'm watching on my phone so video is pretty small lol

[Predicto]

I can't tell if the gun was there all along, but obscured by the shadow from the police officer's leg.   

[Gamebreaker]

54 minutes ago, youngchew said:

1:45 mark there is nothing on the ground to the right of Scott's body.  1:52, clear as day, there is now a gun on the ground to tue right of Scott, in front of the black guys white shoe.  It wasn't there, now it's there.

After watching again, he actually drops the gun right next to the body

I'm trying to be as fair as possible. Honestly, I think cop in red shirt hands the black cop some gloves, he fumbles one of them, and that is what is lying on the ground. It certainly doesn't look like a gun or book to me. I don't see a gun anywhere. So where do they claim they found the gun at? 

[justice98]

I don't think it's a gun.  Not to say there isn't a gun elsewhere, but that ain't it to me.   It looks like a glove falling out of his back pocket or something.  And the wife is standing there watching him do it.  If he wanted to plant a gun, he could've done it a lot smoother than that and not where the person clearly filming it can see it.  One of those other guys was in a better position to plant something if that was the move.

[Gamebreaker]

1 minute ago, justice98 said:

 One of those other guys was in a better position to plant something if that was the move.

Yes, the two guys checking his dying body and not providing CPR are in better position to plant something. 

[Springfield]

Tragic video.  Difficult to draw too many right/wrong conclusions from that video.  Just another sad video that is becoming commonplace.

 

A couple thoughts on it:

1. The wife's reaction seems odd.  Very matter of factly without a whole lot of emotion.  Seems like she knew something about him that we don't and I'd rather not speculate any further.

2.  It seems like the police attempted to administer first aid after shooting him.

[Destino]

22 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I don't think it's a gun.  Not to say there isn't a gun elsewhere, but that ain't it to me.   It looks like a glove falling out of his back pocket or something.  And the wife is standing there watching him do it.  If he wanted to plant a gun, he could've done it a lot smoother than that and not where the person clearly filming it can see it.  One of those other guys was in a better position to plant something if that was the move.

I watched it slowed down (I'm strange) and I agree the object that appears close to him at 1:49 is a glove or something similar.  The cop in the red does seem to pull something away from the shooting victim earlier in the video, with his foot, and then remains standing over it.  He doesn't move from that spot or pick the object up at any point I could see.  There is never a clear look at it though so for all we know it's a stick or some garbage he was just moving out of the way.

 

[steve09ru]

In most cases I find myself siding with the police but this one I definitely want to see the body cam video.  You can hear the orders to drop the gun but the still frame picture where the gun is by his feet is not visible in this video.  Two options here, 1) they kicked it away from his hand 2) planted - really need the encounter video to tell if they kicked it away from his hand and to where it ended up in the still frame picture that surfaced.  

You would figure if it was legitimate then they would have released the video shortly after the family did to show the whole story and avoid any potential riots but I also don't know what goes into the legal process.

**missed the convo above before posting but I would also think the wife is keeping a close eye on the situation so the planting seems a little more questionable as I'm sure she would have said something but still want to see the body can video