What Changes Would You Make?

[SkinsPassion4Life]

13 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

I'm not criticizing him, just acknowledging he's not playing at his best. It happens. I was fine with his play against the Steelers, to a degree. But he wasn't himself against the Cowboys. Norman didn't receive the same support and was still making plays, right? The coaching staff recognized Breeland wasn't getting it done and decided to have Norman follow Dez, too. So, yeah, I think it's safe to say he's not himself. 

Maybe that'll get fixed on its own, I just don't want him to continue to lose confidence. 

 

Norman is better than Breeland...obviously.....I'm fine with the way Breeland is playing....we have an inept coaching staff.....Safeties and Linebackers are not where they are supposed to be....on top of that, we lack a pass rush

[TheGreek1973]

yes we lack a pass rush but lets see how we do against the Giants.  I mean the Pukes do have a great OL and it showed, but still we got to Dak 4 times.  IMO if Barry doesn't dial up some pressure and our corners get burned I just don't see him being on this staff past next Monday.  Getting to Eli is the key to this game, more so that Cousins being great IMO.  All he needs to do is be good with the opportunities and not turn the ball over.

[Koolblue13]

We should absolutely be able to get to Eli.

Now, can we cover that trio is another story.

[NewCliche21]

I'm not a KDawg when it comes to football knowledge, but in the couple of decades I've watched the game, I've noticed that not adjusting, even if it's "worse", is usually the worst option if it's not working.

You know how you constantly here, "We're gonna run [this play] until you can stop it" from announcers?  The same applies to a poor defense in general.  They're going to keep attacking you until you change.   There's no such thing as a perfect defense that never needs adjustments, because everything has its weaknesses, just like on offense.  Tampa 2 (yes, I know it's a defense), Zone Read, Wildcat, two-TE sets, everything.  If you mix it up, then each of those will be more effective.  If you only use one, then it will be soundly defeated and so will you.  If you mix it up, even just a couple of times, then you have a much better chance of being successful.

Something I haven't seen a lot of is blitzing in general.  No corner blitzes, delayed blitzes, safety blitzes, stunts, no nothing with any regularity.  The downside of blitzing is it leaves someone open and a greater potential for a big play.  We're getting carved up anyway, so why not blitz?  We're letting quarterbacks get comfortable, and give any NFL quarterback some confidence and he'll succeed more often than he won't.

I really just want to see adjustments and blitzes.  Barry worked with trash last year and did pretty well, and I don't know if he and Kirk ate at the same all-you-can-eat **** buffet or what, but try SOMETHING different.

[TSO]

2 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

Norman is better than Breeland...obviously.....I'm fine with the way Breeland is playing....we have an inept coaching staff.....Safeties and Linebackers are not where they are supposed to be....on top of that, we lack a pass rush

 

Yes, Norman is better, but Breeland has been a number one for us and a good one at that, as well. Don't know why you're stating the obvious here as if that means anything. 

I hope you're right and there's nothing wrong with Breeland. I don't know why you keep bringing up the safeties and linebackers, I know they're a big part of the problem but they're also the same guys Breeland has been playing with since last year for the most part. 

He didn't play like his usual self against the Cowboys, that's what I saw. I think everyone saw that, too. I think the coaching staff finally acknowledged it and decided to stick Norman on Dez. Breeland has shut Dez down before, so I'm not sure why what I'm saying is causing you to respond with these arguments. 

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

We should absolutely be able to get to Eli.

Now, can we cover that trio is another story.

I remember a game 2 years ago where Eli went quick pass vs our vaunted Rak led pass rush. Do they still have that same wise OC?  In that game, Rak was seen frustrated (or said he was), mid game I believe. Maybe someone read his lips.  I think it was that famous Cousins mega INT game. 

If we can't cover the trio, Barry will bend and leave it up to the offense to win it for us, much like last week. 

[NewCliche21]

14 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Yes, Norman is better, but Breeland has been a number one for us and a good one at that, as well. Don't know why you're stating the obvious here as if that means anything. 

I hope you're right and there's nothing wrong with Breeland. I don't know why you keep bringing up the safeties and linebackers, I know they're a big part of the problem but they're also the same guys Breeland has been playing with since last year for the most part. 

He didn't play like his usual self against the Cowboys, that's what I saw. I think everyone saw that, too. I think the coaching staff finally acknowledged it and decided to stick Norman on Dez. Breeland has shut Dez down before, so I'm not sure why what I'm saying is causing you to respond with these arguments. 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure where the Breeland hate/lack of appreciation is coming from.  He was a gem pick and has had more bad games this year than the rest of his career.  A very, very bright spot that is flickering for some reason.

[Skins Wingman]

5 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Yeah, I'm not sure where the Breeland hate/lack of appreciation is coming from.  He was a gem pick and has had more bad games this year than the rest of his career.  A very, very bright spot that is flickering for some reason.

well players dont get better every year, otherwise all the veterans would be the best players on the field. we're always saying, this is the year orakpo becomes elite, or kerrigan, or kirk, whoever.  we may have already seen their peaks.  we may have already seen breelands peak.  i dont think its breeland hate, but he acts like he is josh norman and he will probably never be on that level.

[TSO]

11 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Yeah, I'm not sure where the Breeland hate/lack of appreciation is coming from.  He was a gem pick and has had more bad games this year than the rest of his career.  A very, very bright spot that is flickering for some reason.

 

Yup, and this is what I was getting at. I don't know if I'm saying it wrong or something, but it's precisely my belief in Breeland being a great player that has me worried.

I think the coaching staff was blindsided a little bit by his play as well. Right or wrong, they took his play throughout the offseason, along with his past stellar play, and assumed they had two elite corners that can handle things on the outside.

I also think, like most of us, they just chalked up the first game to Brown being that good and expected he'd handle Dez as usual. 

But, apparently, thinking Breeland is good, can shut down guys on his own like he's done in the past, and isn't playing like hisself after seeing Dez have consistent success against him is just outrageously stupid and nonsensical. 

How dare I worry about his confidence being shaken. God forbid such evil thoughts! 

Seriously though, I hope we see the real Breeland show up soon. I don't care what anyone says, that's not him right now. Same feeling I have for Kirk, Kerrigan, and even Preston Smith for that matter. We're getting some terrible play right now from some of our studs. Whatever the cause of it, coaching or confidence... I don't know. I don't believe anyone really does no matter how arrogantly they state such, but God I hope they turn it around quickly. 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

52 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Yes, Norman is better, but Breeland has been a number one for us and a good one at that, as well. Don't know why you're stating the obvious here as if that means anything. 

I hope you're right and there's nothing wrong with Breeland. I don't know why you keep bringing up the safeties and linebackers, I know they're a big part of the problem but they're also the same guys Breeland has been playing with since last year for the most part. 

He didn't play like his usual self against the Cowboys, that's what I saw. I think everyone saw that, too. I think the coaching staff finally acknowledged it and decided to stick Norman on Dez. Breeland has shut Dez down before, so I'm not sure why what I'm saying is causing you to respond with these arguments. 

 

I'm not arguing...just defending Breeland.    Bruton was not here last year....the Linebackers are not playing as well...big part of that is the D-Line.....it all starts up front

[bobandweave]

6 hours ago, SWFLSkins said:

 

Please list out the decisions you would have made vs. the ones he made. Oh and make sure you read that link I posted above.

 

I'll bite.

With the guys that were free agents this year at the Running Back position -

Doug Martin (27)
Lamar Miller (25)
Matt Forte (30)
CJ Anderson (25)
Alfred Morris (27)
Arian Foster (30)
Chris Ivory (28)
Christine Michael (25)

I thought then and still think now with the cheap contracts these guys are getting we absolutely should have signed one of them. No question about it. With the production we got from Matt Jones last year it was damn near criminal to not have upgraded that position this offseason with the schedule we have looming. By not upgrading we have become a funnel offense, where everything must go through the QB and that's easy to stop. The reason you want balance on offense is it helps open up the offense. Well you can't have balance with a bad player who Defenses aren't locked onto stopping like him

I know some of you point to Matt Jones ypc average last game and say we are good there and he just needs more touched but to me when you see a guy like Jones, always injured and pretty much so ineffective that you can't give him the ball more then 10 maybe 15 times before worrying about him breaking down you don't have a running game that's effective and expected to take the pressure off the QB. Jones in 15 games has never had 20 carries in a game. He isn't a workhorse effective RB in the NFL. And when your strength is at WR then to open up those WRs and get them in single coverage you need a RB that is respected. That's why we had to upgrade this position and why it was foolish not to have done that.

Think about that for a moment. In this offense, how different would it be today record wise if we added a RB that defenses had to account for and plan to stop and was that elusive 20 touch a week guy? To me your talking Arizona then with talent everywhere on offense. Would that team have been in a nailbiter loss to the Cowboys last week? Of course not. Yet we decided not to add talent to this position this year and why? Because we needed money to pay Cousins or because we over valued Jones and thought he could do the job or we simply didn't want to use resources today on a position with such high turnover.

Not having a quality RB is killing Cousins. Its making them put all of the effort on his back. And after two games we should all ask yourselves this....did they make the right move here after all? I don't think so

 

[TheGreek1973]

Let me defend Breeland with this statement.  Barry sucks, his coaches suck and they should all be fired.  There you go Breeland is defended.  You never just go with your original game plan when the offense is attacking you a certain way.  You need to adjust.  Any of you seen any adjustments against the Steelers?  You have an ex corner playing FS and you let Breeland single cover Brown?  F no, you put both him and Hall on Brown.  At least try it on 3rd and long. 

You let Dez and a rookie pickup 6 first downs when 3rd and over 8 yards?  This is not on players we all know that Breeland can play and Hall can play etc.  Its this idiot that can't put our players in a situation where they can make some plays.

[TSO]

3 minutes ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

 

I'm not arguing...just defending Breeland.    Bruton was not here last year....the Linebackers are not playing as well...big part of that is the D-Line.....it all starts up front

 

Bruton is the only difference, I think that lends credence to my observations on Breeland more than anything. Linebackers are the same, I'm not sure they're playing better or worse. They were an issue last year as well so I'm not sure there's been a major regression on their end.

I agree, it does start up front and I've stated numerous times that I think our panic about the run defense is causing a lot of the issues in our secondary... but there are things Breeland handled his entire career that he's struggling with right now. Stuff like curls and comebacks. He'd blanket those type of routes before, especially with big guys like Dez, and right now he's just off. 

My only concern is that his confidence is shaken and I don't want to see that deteriorate anymore. CB play is more dependent on the mental state than many other positions. 

[Peregrine]

For me, its pretty simple.

 

1. Fire Joe Barry

2. Fire Gruden

I dont understand how you can be so bad at coaching compared to the rest of the league.  How does a HC pass the ball 78% of the time, and not notice it, except to say in EVERY post game interview "Gee, we should run it more".  No duh.  I dont get how they can call 5 fade passes, including 4 down at the goal line, when all throughout the game we were rolling through their defense.  We took the ball out of KCs hands, until 3rd and long, forcing him to force the ball.  What happened to throwing to Jordan Reed at the goal line?  Why in the WORLD are we trying to force the ball to a rookie who has barely practiced?

I dont understand how other teams can run the same simple plays again and again and our defense never catches on.  In the first week the Steelers lined up the same play several times, torched us each time, and we never adjusted.  This week, the Cowboys ran the same playaction boot 4-5 times, and EVERY time there was no player within 20 yards of the QB, or the receiver.  How does that happen?  How does that happen more than once?  Notice that we did the same play, they figured it out on play 2.  How does a DC say "We wont switch Normal over to cover their #1, people dont do that" to, "Norman, go follow their #1" to now "Norman will definitely always cover their #1".  Did he not know how to coach before this week, and now all of the sudden hes got it?  He either bowed to pressure from others to do the wrong thing, or was woefully ignorant before.  Look at the Pats without Tom Brady.  Thats good coaching.  Look at the Orioles with a dumpster fire of an owner, who wont pay money to compete in the AL East with 3 of the 5 highest spending teams, yet Buck Showalter keeps them in it every year.  Heck, for soccer fans, look at Everton, and the difference between Roberto Martinez, and then Ronald Koeman and spending only 7 million, the difference between disaster and best start in 30+ years.  Coaches are vital, and anyone who puts players above them is insane.

 

[Thinking Skins]

I'd definitely be in the camp of firing Barry. I feel bad because I was one of the main guys saying to give him a chance when we first hired him, but now I want him gone. I'd either promote Fewell or Olivadotti to the DC position, with an understanding that I want more man coverage and blitzes.

I'm scouting practice squad players across the league and getting this team younger and trying to find some mid season gems like Scot has done in the past. The guys we signed would be my first options. I'd implement more of a rotation (especially on defense), where after seeing somebody continuously make mistakes or being out of position or slow to react, get out of there and see if your backup can play. Hopefully our better players would be less likely to wind up in this position but at least it'd give us an opportunity to play our younger talent (and the supposed depth we have).

I'd be running the ball more and making Kelly my number 2 runner (Thompson still as my third down back) so that we could have two possible guys who can pick up yards on 3rd and 1.

 

[TSO]

@Peregrine I put players above coaching and don't appreciate being called insane. 

For every example you have above there's another ten that shows how much more vital personnel is at the pro level. 

Now, somehow this debate always devolves into some bs where people assume that we're saying coaching means nothing and it's all about personnel, so I'll put the qualifier here like I always do. COACHING IS VERY IMPORTANT. JUST NOT AS IMPORTANT AS PERSONNEL AT THE PRO LEVEL. 

I'm annoyed you forced me into this debate again, but I'm not going to let someone call me insane for a very legitimate view I hold and stay quiet. 

[LadySkinsFan]

Wrong thread

[Momma There Goes That Man]

10 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

That was the joke. I'm wearing my 64 jersey right now.

You better be careful with that on, somebody is likely to just grab you and push you backwards 10-15 yards before obliterating you into the dirt. 

[Hail4Life]

- Fire Barry

- Tell McVay no more forcing fades on 1st & goal on the 4

- Insert Duke

- Bring back Potroast

- Teach the players what a rivalry is and how to approach a rivalry game

- Run Matt Jones

[Stefanskins]

On 9/20/2016 at 9:49 AM, CTskin said:

Well played. I didn't know how many people caught it. Do you know who the sideline reporter was? 

some woman

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Stefanskins said:

some woman

I was dieing. Might have been the best part of the game.

We need a streaker or something.

[TheGreek1973]

This week, I hope we see Duke in for Burton.  I think if anything shaking up the SS position will pay benefits.  Also I want to see Toler instead of Phillips in the slot or Fuller, Phillips sucks and we can't have that with their rookie slot WR.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, TheGreek1973 said:

This week, I hope we see Duke in for Burton.  I think if anything shaking up the SS position will pay benefits.  Also I want to see Toler instead of Phillips in the slot or Fuller, Phillips sucks and we can't have that with their rookie slot WR.

Agreed. I'd love to see our rookies battle it out in the slot. 

[SWFLSkins]

On 9/20/2016 at 8:07 AM, KDawg said:

I agree there were better choices as DC. But he's at the table. And coaching changes usually hurt more than help (there are circumstances that's not the case).

i don't think our secondary is as good as you think it is, for the record.

Another great assessment. I do see merit in both sides of the argument. There is no doubt about safety talent, it is extremely limited and that hurts the corners. I don't quite understand why Barry has not give Duke a chance to play in Brutons spot, but I don't watch practice everyday either.  

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I would like to see Fuller get a stab at Shepard as well.  However, I think Toler would be my choice.  I assume Fuller was inactive on Sunday?  I had to watch the game at a bar.  Anyway, I think it's obvious that there's something about Fuller's play in practice that hasn't earned his coaches trust yet.  If not, he'd be playing.

Same goes for Nacho.  I like the way he attacks the LOS on running plays, but there's something that the coaches don't like about him.  When he played the final preseason game in Denver, I knew he was in the doghouse.  

I also don't really see Everett as a viable option, and I don't think we're at the point of 'he can't play any worse' yet.  We're two weeks in.  Hopefully we can see some progress this week and squeak one out.