Matt Jones Monday night

[lavar1156]

Yeah Jones is awful. I might pick up Rob Kelly in fantasy. 

[Butters20]

I gotta agree, he lacks the FIRE to play the position properly. He can be fast, he is strong, and he can run through tackles......but he doesn't really do any of those things he should be doing to make up for lack of vision.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Kinda scary it took Matt Jones until that hit in the Giants game to figure out why he plays football.  Even crazier to think a guy like Scott that puts being a "football player" at a premium wouldn't have picked up on that. 

I think Jones entered the season as the starter and has remained there primarily due to the fact that we really don't have anyone else.  Not because of Scott's ego. You win some, you lose some.

[dyst]

Totally looks like a different person mentally.

[TheGreek1973]

I still don't understand after the fumble problems he had last year why we didn't keep Morris.  He is still on one year deal with the boys, you mean to tell me we couldn't sign him to a 3 year 7 million dollar deal?  Sure we could, he got worse from the boys. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

14 minutes ago, redskindan07 said:

I think we all are expecting a RB draft pick or FA RB pickup next year

 

It's considered a very deep draft at RB in 2017.  I'm expecting a RB drafted in the first 2 days.

[lavar1156]

I wish PSU RB Saquon Barkley was eligible for the draft. I want him so bad.

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Um, the dancing bear is TAKEN and it is a positive nickname not a negative one

Iannodis?

[Koolblue13]

On 10/9/2016 at 7:17 PM, Taylor703 said:

To me it seemed like Robert Kelley started cutting into his carries. They must be seeing Jones struggling with missed holes and cutback lanes on film. The guy has all the talent in the world but he's just not a very good RB. Sucks, but it is what it is. 

TK said they were looking for the hot hand during the game.

I tell ya what's hot. His seat.

1 hour ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

It's considered a very deep draft at RB in 2017.  I'm expecting a RB drafted in the first 2 days.

I know I day this a lot, but I'd be furious if it's not all defense with those 3 picks.

[TheGreek1973]

I know people are not very high on him, but I do what to see what Marshall has to give. And Brown also.  But Marshall man if he can get back where he was at Georgia as a freshman then we may be set. 

[TSO]

Last week, as well as the 4th quarter against the Giants... the guy ran the ball with very good power and decisiveness. He was going forward, and people were bouncing off of him. According to PFF, I think they had him in the top 5 for yards after contact. 

Yet, all we talked about on here were the holes he missed and the opportunities for bigger plays. Literally, post after post. Only a few posters, like @s0crates @Califan007 and @elkabong82, gave any type of counter response. 

If he was missing holes and still gaining yards, what does that say about his athleticism? Nah, can't talk about that, right? Just the missing holes part is what matters, even though he'd shown solid vision behind the LOS and turned some poorly blocked runs into 2-3 yard gains the games before. 

Awesome. 

So now he's up against an excellent Ravens D that has done great the entire year so far against rushing attacks. The Browns game against them wasn't as obvious as people think, Crowell had one huge 80 yard run at the beginning of the game but then they were bottled up by the Ravens for the most part after that.

Anyway, he struggles against them, as did fan favorite *insert anyone other than Jones here* though he did well catching the ball, and it's back to just trashing the kid over and over again. 

My God, he's a super athletic second year player who has shown improvement, albeit slowly. The anger directed at him is way over the top. Zero balance, bias through the roof. 

I want to know what he did. What kitten did he murder? 

Friggin weirdo Skins' fans. 

I'm glad the team is being patient with him. Hope that continues. Maybe giving Kelley more touches will help encourage him more to take advantage of every snap. Have to keep working with a young guy like that until it's obvious he can't improve, which contrary to popular opinion here is far from the truth. He's shown improvement this year from his rookie season in virtually every issue he had. 

[BornaSkinsFan83]

3 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

I still don't understand after the fumble problems he had last year why we didn't keep Morris.  He is still on one year deal with the boys, you mean to tell me we couldn't sign him to a 3 year 7 million dollar deal?  Sure we could, he got worse from the boys. 

I don't understand a single thing we've done at the RB position. You go into the season with Matt Jones as your #1 and nothing else? Just a WTF to me. I don't know **** and even I knew that wasn't going to work. It's my one beef with Scot. Resign Morris, bring in a vet, draft someone legitimate, do something. But nope. I don't get it.

[lavar1156]

10 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

Last week, as well as the 4th quarter against the Giants... the guy ran the ball with very good power and decisiveness. He was going forward, and people were bouncing off of him. According to PFF, I think they had him in the top 5 for yards after contact. 

Yet, all we talked about on here were the holes he missed and the opportunities for bigger plays. Literally, post after post. Only a few posters, like @s0crates @Califan007 and @elkabong82, gave any type of counter response. 

If he was missing holes and still gaining yards, what does that say about his athleticism? Nah, can't talk about that, right? Just the missing holes part is what matters, even though he'd shown solid vision behind the LOS and turned some poorly blocked runs into 2-3 yard gains the games before. 

Awesome. 

So now he's up against an excellent Ravens D that has done great the entire year so far against rushing attacks. The Browns game against them wasn't as obvious as people think, Crowell had one huge 80 yard run at the beginning of the game but then they were bottled up by the Ravens for the most part after that.

Anyway, he struggles against them, as did fan favorite *insert anyone other than Jones here* though he did well catching the ball, and it's back to just trashing the kid over and over again. 

My God, he's a super athletic second year player who has shown improvement, albeit slowly. The anger directed at him is way over the top. Zero balance, bias through the roof. 

I want to know what he did. What kitten did he murder? 

Friggin weirdo Skins' fans. 

I'm glad the team is being patient with him. Hope that continues. Maybe giving Kelley more touches will help encourage him more to take advantage of every snap. Have to keep working with a young guy like that until it's obvious he can't improve, which contrary to popular opinion here is far from the truth. He's shown improvement this year from his rookie season in virtually every issue he had. 

 

I'm sorry, he's terrible. He's been all hype for two seasons now. If you can't see that he's not a "football player" then I can't help you. He's looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane. Terrible vision. No feel for the position whatsoever. You did hear what Gruden said at his presser right? It was code for...our starter isn't getting the job done.

 

[SkinsGuy]

1 minute ago, lavar1156 said:

 

I'm sorry, he's terrible. He's been all hype for two seasons now. 

 

Two seasons?

Don't you mean just 21 games? Jones hasn't been here for two seasons.

[elkabong82]

Jones isn't terrible. He has size and athleticism, which can't be coached, but has deficits in running style and decisiveness, which can be coached.

Right now he runs to upward and regressed in decisiveness after the fumble Sunday. He needs to continue to improve obviously because overall he is decent-at-best. He has a ton of potential though and needs to continue to be coached up. He's young and worth sticking with for now. But he's got to show progress this season. Cleveland was a good step in that direction. He needs more of those games, otherwise we'll all be on the Dalvin Cook wagon come draft time.

[TSO]

50 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

I'm sorry, he's terrible. He's been all hype for two seasons now. If you can't see that he's not a "football player" then I can't help you. He's looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane. Terrible vision. No feel for the position whatsoever. You did hear what Gruden said at his presser right? It was code for...our starter isn't getting the job done.

 

Yes, I'm beyond help then. The same way that you're beyond help in that you can't see his talent, which he has shown enough of, enough to understand why the team has been this patient in working with him and giving him every opportunity possible. The same way guys like Trent Murphy were trashed here. Or even Jamison Crowder in terms of punt returns. The hope is that he "gets it", and it can happen at anytime. Just like we saw against the Giants and Browns. 

We claim to understand what draft and develop means, but most of us don't. Not every player follows the same developmental trajectory. Some are quicker than others. Some take time. If the team is done with him, I'll understand. They see him in practice everyday. They know his talent. I simply don't agree with you about Gruden's comments... maybe they want to give others a chance to see if they can improve the running game right now, but I highly doubt they're done trying to get Matt Jones to be the guy.    

[Renegade7]

He's not that bad when we actually commit to the run and he finds a rhythm.  By year 3 or 4, he could be elite, he has the talent for it, and he is better then last year, imo.

[Koolblue13]

I'm sticking with the coaching staff opinion at the end of last year. Doesn't have the heart for it.

[Darth Tater]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Iannodis?

No.  Hint you said I was old  Ron McDole!

Teammate Sonny Jurgensen gave him the nickname "The Dancing Bear" after showing off his moves at a Georgetown nightspot.

[Gregpeck99]

The plan is that Kelley will get more touches and gradually become the bell-cow.

Wishfully thinking yours,

[Darth Tater]

Should I get in my time machine (just finished it) and go back to January and tell Scott that he MUST re-sign Alfred Morris.  Um, I can't bring game tapes with me, heck, it transports me like in the terminator, so how should I convince him to listen to me?

[Gibbit]

4 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Should I get in my time machine (just finished it) and go back to January and tell Scott that he MUST re-sign Alfred Morris.  Um, I can't bring game tapes with me, heck, it transports me like in the terminator, so how should I convince him to listen to me?

heard he like oral?

[Taylor703]

49 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Yes, I'm beyond help then. The same way that you're beyond help in that you can't see his talent, which he has shown enough of, enough to understand why the team has been this patient in working with him and giving him every opportunity possible. The same way guys like Trent Murphy were trashed here. Or even Jamison Crowder in terms of punt returns. The hope is that he "gets it", and it can happen at anytime. Just like we saw against the Giants and Browns. 

We claim to understand what draft and develop means, but most of us don't. Not every player follows the same developmental trajectory. Some are quicker than others. Some take time. If the team is done with him, I'll understand. They see him in practice everyday. They know his talent. I simply don't agree with you about Gruden's comments... maybe they want to give others a chance to see if they can improve the running game right now, but I highly doubt they're done trying to get Matt Jones to be the guy.    

You can't excuse a bunch of bad games because he's had a good game here and there. I'm watching the games, I'm watching the replays and studying him as much as I can. He has no vision whatsoever. He misses monster holes and cutback lanes. He's avoiding contact and has basically no open field moves whatsoever. 

Look I'd love for the guy to be good because he is loaded with physical talent but whatever good RBs have, he doesn't have it. Honestly I'd say as far as pure running skills go he's behind Thompson and possibly Kelley as well. I just don't understand why it's so hard to come to terms with the fact that Scot got this one wrong? The guy just isn't any good. **** happens. 

[TSO]

19 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

You can't excuse a bunch of bad games because he's had a good game here and there. I'm watching the games, I'm watching the replays and studying him as much as I can. He has no vision whatsoever. He misses monster holes and cutback lanes. He's avoiding contact and has basically no open field moves whatsoever. 

Look I'd love for the guy to be good because he is loaded with physical talent but whatever good RBs have, he doesn't have it. Honestly I'd say as far as pure running skills go he's behind Thompson and possibly Kelley as well. I just don't understand why it's so hard to come to terms with the fact that Scot got this one wrong? The guy just isn't any good. **** happens. 

 

I'm not excusing anything. I'd dispute the "bunch of bad games" idea here for a player who's hardly played and only this season had the opportunity to start and get the bulk of carries... but, whatever, I know he has issues. The question is whether or not he can improve upon them.

Last season, his biggest issue was with fumbling. He's fixed that thus far. His vision behind the LOS has improved this year, I don't care what anyone says. Against the Steelers and Cowboys, when he barely got any touches, he was doing a great job overcoming some terrible blocks from our Oline and finding a hole to turn what could've easily been a negative play into a positive. 

He's got issues once he gets to the second level deciding what to do. He chooses to juke or try to escape secondary players too often instead of lowering his pads and getting physical. But I believe that comes with reps. We've seen him a few times this year look very good in the 4th quarter as he's gotten more comfortable. 

So I just don't understand why it's so hard to come to terms with the fact that your final judgment of developing players has so often been way off that you wouldn't at least qualify your statements. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I know I day this a lot, but I'd be furious if it's not all defense with those 3 picks.

 

So I said that because of how I think McCloughan builds a roster.  I think he thinks it's easier to plug and play in defense and harder to do that in offense.  Defense reacts as plays develop.  Offense has to have timing down, timing of routes, timing of block combinations, QB has to feel comfortable WR's are where they're supposed to be, and WR's have to know when to do what in a route based on how they think their teammate is going to run the clearing route ahead of them.

Most of our FA acquisitions, including the pricier guys (Culliver, Paea, Knighton, Ricky Jean, Norman, Reyes, Bruton) are on defense.  All those guys are $3 mil a year or more.  Those are filling holes as I think McCloughan thinks it's easier to fill holes in FA on defense.  As you don't need as much time to develop chemistry with the guys next to you.  Vernon Davis is I believe the most expensive offensive FA we've brought in, and he's at something like $2.4 million.  So in his mind, the toughest and most time intensive corps to develop into a cohesive and adaptable unit is on offense.  So he's spending more draft capital on that until a consistent group of guys has been established.

2015, we spent a 1st and 3rd on offense.

2016, we spent a 1st on offense.

2017...my guess is if we don't draft 2 offensive players in the first two rounds, then we wind up going 1st rounder on offense again.  Now it's possible the board just doesn't shake out like this, but I think when choosing between an equivalent offensive player and defensive player, he'll choose offense.

P.S.  The only DT we've drafted in the 2 years under McCloughan has been a 5th rounder.  When McCloughan was in Seattle, rarely took DT's higher than the 4th, and that was a 3rd rounder which they only did once (that was in 2013 when McCloughan quit a month before the draft).