2017 Comprehensive NFL Draft Thread

[squatch66]

2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Luckily there can only be 16 "there's NO WAY he falls to 17" players in this draft. 

 

Plus QB's and WR's we don't want will push some guys down. A RB or two we may or may not want will push more valuable positional talent down. An OT or two (though it is a weak class) that we don't have much use for will push some guys down.

 

There will be a damn good prospect available for us at 17. And most likely, taking the above into account, there will be multiple somebodies we wouldn't have expected to be there available at our pick.

 

2 hours ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Cunningham is solid. We might need solid. So many times our ILbers are either too slow or totally misread the play and we get gashed. Cunningham will make the play that is to be made. At a school like Vandy, football might not have been an all day everyday thing so IMO he could be just scratching the surface of his potential.

 

I agree that we need solid, however I think we can get better than solid at our pick in the first. Conn's point is valid that some teams "reaching" for QB's and OT's will push better prospects down the board to us and I think that there will be better options at our pick. Now if Cunningham is on the board in the second, he is someone I could get behind. I don't see what @clskinsfan saw on the draftbreakdown footage. I'm more with @Bonez3 in that I saw him struggle with shedding and tackling. I will say that I would love to see what Olivadotti could do with Cunningham. He would be the best linebacker Coach Kirk has had to work with in a while.

[clskinsfan]

I guess we can hope Adams gets recorded smoking weed out of a gas mask a few weeks before the draft. That should get him down to 17 at least

[DM72]

In his 1st mock draft, Todd McShay has us taking WR JuJu Smith out USC.

[maskedsuperstar]

2 minutes ago, DM72 said:

In his 1st mock draft, Todd McShay has us taking WR JuJu Smith out USC.

Todd is on meth

[clskinsfan]

If we dont take a defensive player in the first round this year my head will explode.

[Thinking Skins]

25 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

If we dont take a defensive player in the first round this year my head will explode.

Not just that, I don't want a player that'll play like 25% of the plays (sorry Sua/Peppers). I want somebody that can be the cornerstone of our defense. That means that I'm for a Adams (very unlikely), Hooker (very unlikely), Foster (unlikely), McDowell, Cunningham, or Brantley. Later in the draft I'd probably want somebody like Evans (FS), Jaleel Johnson, Watt, Jarrad Davis, or Watkins, but we need some disruptive forces on defense. 

 

I'm much more in favor of building our team (defense) through the draft, but I hope we don't ignore the positions through FA either. I'd like to bring in some guys so that we have depth there. And I want most of the guys who were starters this year to be competing for backup spots next year. 

[skinny21]

42 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

If we dont take a defensive player in the first round this year my head will explode.

It's contingent on FA for me - if they don't sign a couple serious defensive FAs and then go offense in the 1st... I might join you.  

 

2+ (good) FA signings and 2 early picks on D would satisfy me (even if they use the 1st rounder on offense).  

 

 

[CommanderDOOM]

If we draft a WR (1st rd)  it better be Mike Williams pushed down to us , all our targets are gone , and the only trade partner offers a 7th to us.

[MEANDWARF]

2 hours ago, DM72 said:

In his 1st mock draft, Todd McShay has us taking WR JuJu Smith out USC.

 

6 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

If we draft a WR (1st rd)  it better be Mike Williams.

Receivers!?!?!?!

 

Did we hire Matt Millan to help with the draft?

[rougeskins]

DT out of Stanford#90 is the only way to go. 

[Going Commando]

On 1/6/2017 at 1:27 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

The more I watch Zach Cunningham, the more I think there's only one legit 1st round linebacker in this draft, and that's Reuben Foster.  Cunningham, is fast, he's athletic...but he's definitely not a "football player" McCloughan style.  He sucks at tackling and he's not physical.  His block shedding is below average.  If he can't get around the blocker with mostly athleticism, he's done.  He does extend his arms, but then he tries to sidestep or swim around him the blocker, often losing gap integrity as the RB just moves to the other side of the blocker.

 

He doesn't hit when tackling, he doesn't wrap up, he doesn't take legs out, he prefers to catch the ballcarrier.  He whiffs because he's playing too high, he usually doesn't tackle with leverage and drive through them for the tackle.  I have a hard time believing NFL RB's wouldn't make him look pathetic through either jukes or just plain trucking him.  I mean, just put on a random cutup of Cunningham and start a missed tackle tally.  You'll be surprised by how many a guy this hyped is missing. QB's, WR's, RB's, whoever.

 

Some of your criticisms are accurate and some are not.  Your overall take is too negative IMO.

 

I agree that he's not a striker and he looks to catch ball carriers and wrestle them down.  I disagree about him not being physical and not being good at shedding blocks or having to abandon his gap to get around them.  He's one of the best stack and shed linebackers in the class.  It's probably the biggest strength that stood out to me about his game.  He is brilliant at push pulling linemen and getting them off balance and disengaging.  He has long arms and a lot of upper body strength and he lands accurate punches.  He's coordinated.  Without knowing his background, I suspect he was a good wrestler because he has a very good understanding of leverage and he is very comfortable leaving his feet for takedowns and making plays on the ball.

 

You're right that he misses a lot of tackles, and you're right that he doesn't hit with pop.  I'd add that he is not an explosive, twitchy athlete.  And he has a lanky, high cut frame with skinny legs.  His CoD skills are meh, he has to gather up his limbs to change directions.  And ultimately, those reasons are why I don't think he's a first rounder.  But that certainly doesn't kill him as a prospect.  I think he's a solid second rounder.  He has elite length for a stack linebacker and he is fast and fluid with tremendous body control.  He's instinctive and has a knack for the big play.  He also covers a pretty huge amount of ground for Vandy's D.  The way he moves reminds me of Su'a Cravens and I think he's got a similar style, so I wouldn't say he's not the kind of football player that McCloughan likes.  And guys like Cunningham and Cravens are going to miss a lot of tackles because they're strivers who are frequently trying to make difficult plays way off their frame that lesser linebackers wouldn't even get into position for.

 

And FWIW, for a mediocre tackler, he led the SEC in tackles this season by a pretty decent margin.  He made a heck of a lot of plays this season and they were a result of sheer effort and desire.

 

He's a raw talent.  There is no way he received the kind of teaching and strength training and conditioning that prospects coming out of good power 5 programs did.  There is untapped upside there with Cunningham.  I think he might struggle his first year or two, while showing a bunch of flashes in the process, but that in three or four years, a patient team is going to end up with a really good every down linebacker.  Also, don't underestimate just how valuable his solid coverage skills are for a linebacker in today's game.  We're at the point where you willingly sacrifice physicality if the guy can play nickle and dime.  And Cunningham can get off blocks.  I would be very satisfied with the value we'd get from picking him in the second round.  And I think he could eventually be part of a turn around in the culture and performance of our defense, along with guys like Cravens and Norman and Preston Smith.

[wilco_holland]

8 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

If we dont take a defensive player in the first round this year my head will explode.

 

You should then prepare for that... 

[Mr. Sinister]

8 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

If we dont take a defensive player in the first round this year my head will explode.

 

I hope you can grow one back like Jeebs from Men In Black, cuz I cannot deny that if Dalvin Cook is there, and Scot runs to the podium, I'd give em the Gatsby salute

 

But I'd def prefer defense

[The Consigliere]

9 hours ago, DM72 said:

In his 1st mock draft, Todd McShay has us taking WR JuJu Smith out USC.

 

I don't think he's taking into account team needs with his mock, or in that case, talent. Juju really, really smells like a Nelson Agholor/Mike Williams type in terms of productivity. He's got terrible metrics, and struggled due to poor QB play early in the year. None of his #'s, none, smell like a future stud. Nada.

 

The team that takes him in round 1, I just don't think it exists. 

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

I'm way behind the curve this year with regard to prospects, but I like OLB Tim Williams a lot. 

[Going Commando]

I don't care what position we draft in the first round, or whether he plays offense or defense, so long as he's the BPA.

[Thinking Skins]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

And FWIW, for a mediocre tackler, he led the SEC in tackles this season by a pretty decent margin.  He made a heck of a lot of plays this season and they were a result of sheer effort and desire.

 

He's a raw talent.  There is no way he received the kind of teaching and strength training and conditioning that prospects coming out of good power 5 programs did.  There is untapped upside there with Cunningham.  I think he might struggle his first year or two, while showing a bunch of flashes in the process, but that in three or four years, a patient team is going to end up with a really good every down linebacker.  Also, don't underestimate just how valuable his solid coverage skills are for a linebacker in today's game.  We're at the point where you willingly sacrifice physicality if the guy can play nickle and dime.  And Cunningham can get off blocks.  I would be very satisfied with the value we'd get from picking him in the second round.  And I think he could eventually be part of a turn around in the culture and performance of our defense, along with guys like Cravens and Norman and Preston Smith.

 

I'm a big Cunningham fan myself as well. Was reading a scouting report on him this morning and it talked about his tackling ability.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-football-vanderbilt-zach-cunningham-is-the-best-linebacker-youve-never-heard-of/

 

Cunningham missed one of every 9.7 tackle attempts — 44

^th-best among inside linebackers — which is actually better than former Notre Dame linebacker Jaylon Smith fared as a sophomore in 2014 when he missed one out of every 6.6 attempts. Smith improved his tackling as a junior before going down to injury and getting drafted in the second round by the Dallas Cowboys, and if Cunningham can make similar strides, he’ll put himself in great position to become an All-American and potentially a top-round draft choice.

 

I do wish I could find a stat for missed tackles, especially in college football, but that was interesting to read up on him. But I think Cunningham is gone by mid first round. We might be able to trade down from 17 and pick up him or one of the DTs/DEs, but I don't see him lasting until our second.

[Playaction2Sanders]

14 hours ago, maskedsuperstar said:

Todd is on meth

 

Maybe he's heard rumors we dont trust Doctson?  I mean if we lose Garcon AND Djax.. We have NOTHING at WR... 

[maskedsuperstar]

1 hour ago, Playaction2Sanders said:

 

Maybe he's heard rumors we dont trust Doctson?  I mean if we lose Garcon AND Djax.. We have NOTHING at WR... 

Juju isn't worth the 17th pick. But John Ross is

[Skinsinparadise]

I like this mock from SB nation -- but I doubt we get this lucky

 

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/1/9/14211394/2017-nfl-mock-draft-team-needs-browns-49ers-dolphins-raiders

 

17. Washington - Reuben Foster, MLB, Alabama

Key needs: DT, MLB, S, WR

Washington’s needs are straight up the middle on defense. Better talent on the defensive line will keep blockers off players like Ryan Kerrigan and Preston Smith. A good middle linebacker will do the same, and give the team a player who can stop the run. Wide receiver becomes a greater need if DeSean Jackson isn’t re-signed.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I'm a big Cunningham fan myself as well. Was reading a scouting report on him this morning and it talked about his tackling ability.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/college-football-vanderbilt-zach-cunningham-is-the-best-linebacker-youve-never-heard-of/

 

I do wish I could find a stat for missed tackles, especially in college football, but that was interesting to read up on him. But I think Cunningham is gone by mid first round. We might be able to trade down from 17 and pick up him or one of the DTs/DEs, but I don't see him lasting until our second.

 

I can see a few stylistic similarities between Smith and Cunningham to invite the comparison, but I think overall, they are pretty different players.  Smith was a lot more explosive and athletic and he hit through guys when he arrived, generating hard contacts and impeding forward progress.  But he also doesn't look nearly as long as Cunningham does, and he wasn't nearly as instinctive or fundamentally sound.

 

I think Smith was a higher ceiling, lower floor guy.  Whereas I think Cunningham will end up being a pretty safe player who has a clean game but whose potential is limited by his lack of explosiveness.

 

That said, I think Cunningham does still have some untapped athletic upside because he does have such a big frame and he definitely isn't finished filling out yet.  His path to go from being a good starter to a potential pro-bowl caliber starter is by getting a lot stronger and more explosive, and by learning to pass rush.  Imagine if he could flip between the outside and the inside?  His length and good hands and good body control give him good potential as a pass rusher, and that could make him a lot more versatile and ultimately increase his value.

 

And I think it's worth pointing out again that I did not think Su'a Cravens was an explosive looking player either.  Like Cunningham, he was smooth and a long strider with really long arms and good sized hands for his position.  Su'a had 32" arms, which is big for a 6' player.  Cunningham is probably a legit 6'3 or 6'4, it wouldn't shock me if his arms were 34" or more.  Cravens is a dynamic player who compensates for his lack of explosiveness by having such a superb nose for the ball and having the length and body control to make plays on it.  Now Cunningham will never be the kind of player Cravens is in coverage, but if he can develop and get comfortable in a system that really lets him range, I could see him becoming a surprisingly good playmaker too.

 

So bottom line, seeing Cunningham's value involves a lot of projection IMO.  He's not there yet, both physically, and from a skill set stand point.  So I don't think you take him in the first round.  At 17 there are going to be better players with a lot more potential and ability to find a home on the team early in their careers.  But I think you're right that he probably doesn't last until our pick in the second.  We would probably have to either move up in the second round or trade down in the first if we were targeting him.

[Going Commando]

I've been getting back into reading mock drafts lately and I have to say I am shocked at how low they've got Malik McDowell going now.  He and Myles Garrett were the two best defensive players I saw in this year's class, much better than Jonathan Allen.  In fact, I think McDowell and Allen should be flipped in where they're each going in the mocks.  The kid is dominant, if he's sitting there at 17 it's a no brainer pick and you run the card up to the podium.  He has All-Pro potential.

[mistahsmif]

Hoping for Hooker. Looks like he may be available at 17.....

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I've been getting back into reading mock drafts lately and I have to say I am shocked at how low they've got Malik McDowell going now.  He and Myles Garrett were the two best defensive players I saw in this year's class, much better than Jonathan Allen.  In fact, I think McDowell and Allen should be flipped in where they're each going in the mocks.  The kid is dominant, if he's sitting there at 17 it's a no brainer pick and you run the card up to the podium.  He has All-Pro potential.

 

I've seen Malik in some mocks as top 10 but yeah most of them have him available at 17.  He's the player I started watching first at draftbreakdown.com.  He has quick hands, good get off, disruptive.   McDowell and Solomon Thomas for me are the most intriguing options as for helping fix the D line.  They are disruptive and good against the run.

[Rattlesnake88]

Hooker, Foster or Thomas would be a godsend for us. However Cook would be nice too. After watching Bell dismantle the Dolphins, I would love to have elite talent at rb.