Bryan Stork (C) released by Pats

[lavar1156]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Litch is a starting center on a lot of teams in the league and people think someone we just traded a conditional 7th for is going to immediately take his job.

Or that we'd immediately cut Litch.

Could be the power center we need, since Cousins showed he could control the line last year, when long came in, Litch is a little more expendable. That's his most valuable asset.

Can't imagine there are many centers worse that Licht. He was terrible last year. 

[goskins10]

5 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

Can't imagine there are many centers worse that Licht. He was terrible last year. 

 

KL only played 3 gms last yr. Two to start the season where we were the #1 rushing team - by far. Then after being injured he returned fro the GB PO game. He did not play great but neither did most of the team. It's virtually impossible to come in after not playing most of the season and play PO level football.

So I am not sure who you were watching last year that was "terrible", but it was not Kory. Are you thinking Josh L? If so then yes, he was terrible. With Stork being signed I doubt JL will be here beyond the cuts to 75.

Stork is an upgrade at the C position in terms of depth for sure. He has the potential to be an upgrade at the starting C position. But he is only one player and has a lot of work to do to gain the coaches trust, something they already have with Kory. It's highly unlikely anyone but KL will be the starting C. If not him, it will likely be Long - although I am not sold on him at C myself. He did well at G and could replace SL there, but not sure he is a C long term.

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

So in a small sample size of 2 games he exceeded expectations (if you attribute our rushing success to him) then was worse in his first game back. 

I don't think he's been good in years even going back to G. He's just been the best of a sorry bunch that we've trotted out. 

He gets by, I'll say. Not the biggest weakness on a team but still definitely an area you need to improve 

[Koolblue13]

Litch was pretty damn good in 12/13. Guy he beat out started for the bronco's.

It's almost like something changed around 2014 and made Litch not a good fit.

[goskins10]

31 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

So in a small sample size of 2 games he exceeded expectations (if you attribute our rushing success to him) then was worse in his first game back. 

I don't think he's been good in years even going back to G. He's just been the best of a sorry bunch that we've trotted out. 

He gets by, I'll say. Not the biggest weakness on a team but still definitely an area you need to improve 

 

First, the comment was directed towards someone who said he has "terrible" last year when in fact he barely played. Kind of hard to be "terrible" when you don't even play!

Second, despite a few people wanting to trash him, Kory has played decent in the years before, not just the small sample size of 2 gms last year. So people are judging him mostly by the Green Bay game. Is he a pro-bowl C? No. Is there an opportunity for improvement there? Of course. But to act like virtually anyone could play better and he is just "terrible" is a narrow and uniformed position.

What I find amazing is that many are looking forward to SL coming back from injury as they want to attribute the early running success to him, despite the fact that KL went out at almost exactly the same time. So they are willing to assign all the positives to SL and all the negatives to Kory.

Oline takes all 5 and then some others to be successful. But it was clear that those 5 that started last year were at the very least off to a very good start. Then when SL and KL went down to injury, the running game disappeared. Was it all KL? Of course not, and it's not even close to what I said. You made that jump on your own. But there is certainly an argument that he had some positive impact. As did SL.

So many on here decide to pick a guy to trash and then act like he has never made any positive contribution and ignore all data and facts to fit their own narrative. I hope Stork comes in and eventually replaces Kory as it will mean we have improved. But to suggest that Kory is so bad that anyone can come off the street and replace him is just ludicrous. It's actually not even fair to Stork. He will need some time.

[RandyHolt]

7 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

Can't imagine there are many centers worse that Licht. He was terrible last year. 

Maybe Kyle wants him. Other than that, i think it's speculative at best to suggest he bumps starting C's on a lot of teams. He is likely still a good fit for a zone blocking scheme. I admit that I don't know which teams run pure zone, but to me, stopping the jailbreaks up the A's is a higher priority than zone and 2nd level run blocking. As I have stated previous, his strengths at the 2nd level are negated, as our backs rarely get through the first level, in almost his entire tenure as our C.

I think it's understated how important it is for a C being able to get a little push in short yardage situations, which is needed in every single game. That is something I think he clearly struggles with. The QB sneak is such a simple and largely safe play, that we cannot run. Meanwhile, Brady with the Stork and power Cs, gets 4 yards. Sure, Belly spreads it out, but at least it's in their playbook.

[RandyHolt]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

KL only played 3 gms last yr. Two to start the season where we were the #1 rushing team - by far. Then after being injured he returned fro the GB PO game. He did not play great but neither did most of the team. It's virtually impossible to come in after not playing most of the season and play PO level football.....

I'd wager we also led in rushing attempts, as we tried to ease Kirk into his new starting role.  Losing DJax 1st pass to him probably didn't help our passing ambitions. But being the best rushing team means less and less to me every year, since it's simply not a priority to the mostly progressive teams that seem to always dominate the league, year after year. I think keeping a QB clean healthy and happy needs to be factored into grading a C. Heavily. 

Kirk seemed to really take off with Ribs as his center, albeit later in the year. We had a pocket!

We all saw it. It had been absent for many years. And maybe making line calls helped Kirk relax pre-snap, distracting himself from the obvious heavy pressure a QB faces. Or, maybe he was better at line calls ; in addition to having RIbs - a stouter C in pass pro - gave him piece of mind, and helped him to a very strong year.  He was posting monster numbers, things we just don't see here. 3 TD games, 4 TD games. We were a different team. We didn't need the run game, to pass. We had no run game.

I still contend it was a mistake yanking Ribs vs GB. It doesn't matter who was better. All fans could see the chaos and jailbreaks up front, all game long vs GB. Something that we had not seen for months. Suddenly, we were that old team again, running into a brick wall.

[RedskinsInFebruary]

As a guy who believes strong OL has many domino-effects of benefits and has suffered through years and years of OL neglect, this McC era is an exciting time.

Still you gotta wonder about a guy with 4 concussions thinking a head-butting penalty's a good idea.

[goskins10]

24 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I'd wager we also led in rushing attempts, as we tried to ease Kirk into his new starting role.  Losing DJax 1st pass to him probably didn't help our passing ambitions. But being the best rushing team means less and less to me every year, since it's simply not a priority to the mostly progressive teams that seem to always dominate the league, year after year. I think keeping a QB clean healthy and happy needs to be factored into grading a C. Heavily. 

Kirk seemed to really take off with Ribs as his center, albeit later in the year. We had a pocket!

We all saw it. It had been absent for many years. And maybe making line calls helped Kirk relax pre-snap, distracting himself from the obvious heavy pressure a QB faces. Or, maybe he was better at line calls ; in addition to having RIbs - a stouter C in pass pro - gave him piece of mind, and helped him to a very strong year.  He was posting monster numbers, things we just don't see here. 3 TD games, 4 TD games. We were a different team. We didn't need the run game, to pass. We had no run game.

I still contend it was a mistake yanking Ribs vs GB. It doesn't matter who was better. All fans could see the chaos and jailbreaks up front, all game long vs GB. Something that we had not seen for months. Suddenly, we were that old team again, running into a brick wall.

 

I am not sure that Ribs coming in had nearly that much to do with Kirk's success as I believe it was much more his own maturity in the position, and play calling. It was not like after gm 3 it got better. It was more like 8 gms in. While there was decent pass protection with JL in, overall JL was just not good. Mishandled snaps, bad snaps, missed calls, very poor in the run. Keep in mind we were not just leading the league in rushing, it was not even close. That's not to say I disagree about the run being not quite as important. But you can't just abandon it either. You need at least some balance.

Having said that, I totally agree that pulling JL for the GB was not a good idea. Oline more than any other position is about continuity and trusting the guy next to you. Good or bad, that line had played 14 gms together. to pull a guy out and place another one in for the last game is just not a good idea - at least in my opinion.  If they had a few weeks off to get KL some major reps then maybe it would have been different. But it was one week to the next.

[RandyHolt]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am not sure that Ribs coming in had nearly that much to do with Kirk's success....

Good stuff - I largely agree with all you wrote.  Play calling was huge and doesn't get enough credit. We became unpredictable, and stopped running into walls on 1st and 10, 3rd and short, and goal to go. I am still pissed we abandoned it versus Green Bay, and went back to conservative/predictable - no trickery or deception whatsoever, as they hurry up'd our D into submission. 

Sure - Kirk may well have posted those same numbers with Kory. Who knows, but we know when a QB does well, he gets ALL the credit. A QB can win the Heisman even though he is throwing to guys wide open, play after play. Coaching, supporting cast, not even a bone.

I will stick to my guns and think it's good for Kirk to lead our offense by making the line calls. I think we saw a power struggle vs GB. I have never seen that before. I want him in charge as it reinforces he is our leader, and I contend, is likely better at it than Kory.  Or, it's just more effective as he has a comfort zone with his own call.  I believe the game becomes largely mental after thousands of reps.  Hmmm I will slide blocking right because f'in JJ is there and freaking terrorizing me. Versus - yellow - **** **** **** why didn't he slide right - 30 - hike!

Unfortunately I feel like we have seen questionable interior pass pro the entire time Kory has been a starter at LG / C. Getting the stork this late in camp with some baggage reinforces that Scot is not happy at C.

[MassSkinsFan]

2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

KL only played 3 gms last yr. Two to start the season where we were the #1 rushing team - by far. Then after being injured he returned fro the GB PO game. He did not play great but neither did most of the team. It's virtually impossible to come in after not playing most of the season and play PO level football.

So I am not sure who you were watching last year that was "terrible", but it was not Kory. Are you thinking Josh L? If so then yes, he was terrible. With Stork being signed I doubt JL will be here beyond the cuts to 75.

Stork is an upgrade at the C position in terms of depth for sure. He has the potential to be an upgrade at the starting C position. But he is only one player and has a lot of work to do to gain the coaches trust, something they already have with Kory. It's highly unlikely anyone but KL will be the starting C. If not him, it will likely be Long - although I am not sold on him at C myself. He did well at G and could replace SL there, but not sure he is a C long term.

 

Litch was terrible. So terrible that LeRibeus looked downright brilliant by comparison.  I watch the line closely.  I understand what goes on in the trenches (admittedly to the detriment of understanding other things like the defensive secondary). I know that KL started the first 4 games last year, not the first 2. Litch often got ragdolled and didn't contribute a whole lot to the run blocking game in those 5 games last season. The loss of run blocking effectiveness is related to the loss of Lauvao, not Litch. LeRibeus was overall a better C and I was dead set against replacing him at C before the loss to GB for that very reason. 

I'm not thinking Stork is an instant replacement, but the guy was a starter until recently and has shown himself to be capable as an NFL C. So, he's at least on an even footing with the older and smaller Litch, and a much better bet to be at C than Long. I hope either he lights a fire under Litch or he replaces him, since an upgrade at C is important to really gel this OL unit.

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

I still contend it was a mistake yanking Ribs vs GB. It doesn't matter who was better. All fans could see the chaos and jailbreaks up front, all game long vs GB. Something that we had not seen for months. Suddenly, we were that old team again, running into a brick wall.

I can't agree enough with this sentiment. A good center is like glue for the OL. Ribs was glue and Litch was Elmer's paste.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

15 hours ago, illone said:

 

That's a pretty darn good front 7 they faced.  Most teams cannot contain them, but chow is correct for the most part... Pats Oline tends to play way above their talent level.  Good (great) coaching does help...

http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/offense-film-study-nfl/2016/02/01/bryan-storks-head-bob-costs-patriots/

Apparently Stork was tipping the snap against the broncos. Inside the Pylon does a decent video breakdown above explaining. 

[Saeth29]

37 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

http://insidethepylon.com/film-study/film-study-nfl/offense-film-study-nfl/2016/02/01/bryan-storks-head-bob-costs-patriots/

Apparently Stork was tipping the snap against the broncos. Inside the Pylon does a decent video breakdown above explaining. 

I feel like I've seen lots of centers do this, though.  Maybe Stork has the same exact motion each time that tips it off?

[MassSkinsFan]

18 minutes ago, Saeth29 said:

I feel like I've seen lots of centers do this, though.  Maybe Stork has the same exact motion each time that tips it off?

My first thought: "I'd be curious to see the film from the next game. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't see that - the coaches should knock it out of him."

Then I realized they lost this game, ending their season. Dumbass. 

21 minutes ago, Saeth29 said:

I feel like I've seen lots of centers do this, though.  Maybe Stork has the same exact motion each time that tips it off?

You are coached not to do this. You want your opponent to have no idea when you'll snap the ball. You're also taught to snap fast so they don't have reaction time.

[TradeTheBeal!]

I kinda wanna ship a couple 1st round picks to San Diego for Joey Bosa.  Am I a bad person?

[lavar1156]

13 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I kinda wanna ship a couple 1st round picks to San Diego for Joey Bosa.  Am I a bad person?

Trent Murphy and a 3rd. Tho Boso seems lile a douche.

[MassSkinsFan]

14 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I kinda wanna ship a couple 1st round picks to San Diego for Joey Bosa.  Am I a bad person?

Seek help. 

[Dark Acre]

19 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I kinda wanna ship a couple 1st round picks to San Diego for Joey Bosa.  Am I a bad person?

No, you're Vinny.

[Johns Bass]

55 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I kinda wanna ship a couple 1st round picks to San Diego for Joey Bosa.  Am I a bad person?

Well it doesn't make you a bad person but...

I don't think the drama is worth it (and it will continue) considering the melodrama the team & fans have recently rid themselves of.

He has yet to even practice. How long before he'll be ready to take the field?  Even with his skill set it will take some time to accramate himself to the team and vice-a-versa. 

 

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said:

Litch was terrible. So terrible that LeRibeus looked downright brilliant by comparison.  I watch the line closely.  I understand what goes on in the trenches (admittedly to the detriment of understanding other things like the defensive secondary). I know that KL started the first 4 games last year, not the first 2. Litch often got ragdolled and didn't contribute a whole lot to the run blocking game in those 5 games last season. The loss of run blocking effectiveness is related to the loss of Lauvao, not Litch. LeRibeus was overall a better C and I was dead set against replacing him at C before the loss to GB for that very reason. 

I'm not thinking Stork is an instant replacement, but the guy was a starter until recently and has shown himself to be capable as an NFL C. So, he's at least on an even footing with the older and smaller Litch, and a much better bet to be at C than Long. I hope either he lights a fire under Litch or he replaces him, since an upgrade at C is important to really gel this OL unit.

I can't agree enough with this sentiment. A good center is like glue for the OL. Ribs was glue and Litch was Elmer's paste.

 

I stand corrected on the number of games he started. However your assessment of him is way off. He was not "terrible" as you put it. And in no world is JL a better C. If he was, there is no way they would have pulled him for KL for the GB - which I do agree was a mistake but not for the reasons you state.

Still, he only played 4 gms in the reg season - we were 2-2 those 4 games then lost 3 of the next 4 without him. He was not replaced for performance. He was replaced because he was injured. And then put him in as fast as they could because JL was so awful.

 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

LeRib was good last year? LeRib looked brilliant?  With all of his missed snap counts? I think we can all agree that Licht or LeRib are not the type of starting C we need. Stork is tbd. 

[MassSkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I stand corrected on the number of games he started. However your assessment of him is way off. He was not "terrible" as you put it. And in no world is JL a better C. If he was, there is no way they would have pulled him for KL for the GB - which I do agree was a mistake but not for the reasons you state.

Still, he only played 4 gms in the reg season - we were 2-2 those 4 games then lost 3 of the next 4 without him. He was not replaced for performance. He was replaced because he was injured. And then put him in as fast as they could because JL was so awful.

 

I know what I saw:

KL did not get push in the run game, at all. He also got tossed around in pass pro, and was blown up enough that he was what crashed the pocket, frequently.

JL wasn't disciplined with his snaps or his run game assignments. He did get push however. His pass pro was nearly as good as the other starters, and it made a huge difference for the passing game. 

My assessment criteria were:

1. quick off the ball
2. good snaps
3. did not miss assignments
4. was not "blown up" in pass pro
5. handed off his man and hit the second level in run blocking situations
6. pancaked his assignment on run blocks

 

KL was better at the first two, but JL surpassed him in the rest. What did you see that I didn't? I'm not the only one on here who saw this - anyone else want to chime in?

If it would help I can dig up a few examples to show you what I'm talking about.

[kost203]

litch isn't bad but hes a zbc c, weve changed our oline theory and that's comparing apples to oranges. lets roll with stork and hope Austin gets better or we draft a center in this years draft. it sucks, but you cant fix all your holes in a draft. additionally, keep in mind we gave up allot of picks for bob, and our roster was aging as well due to vinny's blinded vision

[Redskins Reparations]

"How do we improve the running game?"

By adding a Center like Stork...

[evmiii]

Stork is an experienced 25 year old that has been snapping the ball to Tom Brady.  If he is healthy (big if), he is most certainly an upgrade to anyone the Redskins have on our roster.  For a 7th, how could you pass on the opportunity.  I hope he shows up healthy and motivated, could turn out to be a great 7th round pick.  HTTR!