BREAKING: Shooting at BLM Protest in Dallas

[twa]

I'm guessing you've never stepped foot in an urban setting. 

 

Stuff like this slides.  It's not a big deal at the end of the day. 

 

you would be guessing really wrong   , never said it was a big deal....just that his relationship with the owner is more complex than just a guy passing thru.

 

of course my urban is mostly more barrio 

[tshile]

On cnn there is a scroll at the top saying a PO was just shot outside a courthouse in Michigan

 

Looks like they've taken it down?

 

CNN is terrible.

 It's possible the gun was planted on him while the two officers were wrestling with him on the ground.

 

:lol:

 

Was that before or after the wink/nod to have the body cameras fall off?

[grhqofb5]

Of course I know this is technically a superficial response, still: David Brown...wish someone of his apparent integrity, intelligence, and values could be a candidate for president. He also gave a great rebuke to legislatures, local and national, for both sides of the aisle not doing their jobs, and to the "whole gun debate." It's another airing that I'd recommend people try to view.  

 

There was a guy who tried this once.  He was universally loved, was at the top of his profession, and was hailed as a hero not only in his field but also by the citizens in his community.  His name is Ben Carson.  Turns out that a thorough media investigation of every aspect of a person's past, coupled with the good old 24 hour media cycle and the "write first, see what stick" mindset of modern journalism was a gauntlet that this "former" American hero couldn't survive.  That and he was a crazy Christian. So let's put another "good" man through it.

[Predicto]

Is it possible to say anything that's not complimentary about a minority group without sounding racist? Aren't you always going to have people wonder where the comment is coming from, even if you're just repeating a statistics, for example?

 

 

Dunno.  I seem to be able to do it all the time.  

 

Perhaps it's because I don't have a history of downplaying and deflecting race concerns and appealing to white resentment - much less saying inane things like "Black Lives Matter is inherently racist."   Rudy's IS a total POS - he's not being unfairly labeled.  

[Popeman38]

Hustle sure. Probably don't need to encourage illegal bootlegging though.

The leading companies seem to be doing fine with the massive black market economy operating online and in every European and Asian country, I don't think a few knock off Coach bags in Battery Park even register. The folks who buy these products can't affords the real ones.

[Xameil]

Or not.

"In his fascinating new book, “The City that Became Safe,” Franklin Zimring, a professor of law and chairman of the Criminal Justice Research Program at the University of California at Berkeley, looks at the real reasons behind that change — and his conclusions might surprise you. Contrary to popular belief, Giuliani’s “zero tolerance” bluster had little to do with it. Instead, it was a combination of strategic policing and harm reduction by the New York Police Department. Police targeted open-air drug markets, and went after guns, while leaving drug users largely alone. The implications of the strategy could make us revise not only the way we think about crime, but the way we think about our prison system and even human nature."

http://www.salon.com/2011/11/19/what_really_cleaned_up_new_york/

Soooo...he went after the dealers and the guns....leaving the user alone...sooo....where's the issue. If the dealer is in jail, then the user can't use, and won't commit the crime in order to get money for the drug...

Maybe I should read the article, because what you posted doesn't refute anything

[Predicto]

There was a guy who tried this once.  He was universally loved, was at the top of his profession, and was hailed as a hero not only in his field but also by the citizens in his community.  His name is Ben Carson.  Turns out that a thorough media investigation of every aspect of a person's past, coupled with the good old 24 hour media cycle and the "write first, see what stick" mindset of modern journalism was a gauntlet that this "former" American hero couldn't survive.  That and he was a crazy Christian. So let's put another "good" man through it.

 

 

That's a terrible example.  Ben Carson was universally loved - as a brain surgeon.   But he was running for President.

 

The problem with him wasn't secrets in his past - the problem with him was that he had no clue about 99 percent of the vital issues that a President needs to know.  The fact that he is kind of crazy was icing on the cake.  

 

Surely you could find a better example than that.  

[Gamebreaker]

Well...crime did go WAY down on his watch, along with homelessness. He was also known to call the police commissioner at 3 am and make him explain if there was a spike in crime in certain areas. From what I remember, he also held cops responsible. He inherited a ****hole from Mayor Dinkins and was able to be a successful Republican mayor of a VERY liberal city.

He should have watched how he worded things this morning, but he wasn't wrong about his policies and practices saving lives

 

He was very wrong about his policies and practices. Did he not institute stop-and-frisk, which violated a citizen's constitutional rights? It also brought about this type of work environment:

 

"Officer Adhyl Polanco testified that "there's a difference between" the department's policies on paper and "what goes on out there", on the city's streets. Officers in his Bronx precinct were expected to issue 20 summons and make one arrest per month, Polanco testified. If they did not they would risk denied vacation, being separated from longtime partners, undesirable assignments and other consequences. "We were handcuffing kids for no reason," Polanco said. Claiming he was increasingly disturbed by what he was witnessing in his precinct, Polcanco began secretly recording his roll call meetings. In one recording played for the court, a man Polanco claimed was a NYPD captain told officers: "the summons is a money–generating machine for the city."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/12/stop-and-frisk-landmark-ruling

[Predicto]

Soooo...he went after the dealers and the guns....leaving the user alone...sooo....where's the issue. If the dealer is in jail, then the user can't use, and won't commit the crime in order to get money for the drug...

Maybe I should read the article, because what you posted doesn't refute anything

 

 

Maybe you should.  Rudy takes credit for a tough, zero tolerance for any crime policy, which he called the "broken windows" theory.   

 

here's another article you should read.  It's short.

 

 http://www.businessinsider.com/criticism-for-giulianis-broken-windows-theory-2013-8

[twa]

Yes, anything is possible. It's possible the gun was planted on him while the two officers were wrestling with him on the ground. His family says he did not carry a gun, and it is difficult to see the right side of his body with the current camera angles we have. 

 

yes and the guy calling 911 reporting the gun could be plant.

 

and Hillary could be the mastermind 

 

a Hillary plant....they are sprouting up all over from what I hear 

[Xameil]

He was very wrong about his policies and practices. Did he not institute stop-and-frisk, which violated a citizen's constitutional rights? It also brought about this type of work environment:

"Officer Adhyl Polanco testified that "there's a difference between" the department's policies on paper and "what goes on out there", on the city's streets. Officers in his Bronx precinct were expected to issue 20 summons and make one arrest per month, Polanco testified. If they did not they would risk denied vacation, being separated from longtime partners, undesirable assignments and other consequences. "We were handcuffing kids for no reason," Polanco said. Claiming he was increasingly disturbed by what he was witnessing in his precinct, Polcanco began secretly recording his roll call meetings. In one recording played for the court, a man Polanco claimed was a NYPD captain told officers: "the summons is a money–generating machine for the city."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/12/stop-and-frisk-landmark-ruling

Well....did crime not go down on his watch? Do you have statistics that show he lied about that?

Lots of people hated his policies, but never could argue with results that seemed to happen...crime down, alot of homeless people off the streets. I'll wait for the statistics that argue against that.

[tshile]

the gun is a plant
or is the plant a gun

 

[Burgold]

the gun is a plant

or is the plant a gun

 

 

Everyone knows that Trump is the only Hillary plant.  A gun could never be a Hillary plant.

 

Or could it?

[Larry]

Soooo...he went after the dealers and the guns....leaving the user alone...sooo....where's the issue. If the dealer is in jail, then the user can't use, and won't commit the crime in order to get money for the drug...

Maybe I should read the article, because what you posted doesn't refute anything

Granted, all I've read about Predicto's link is what he posted. But a theory:

Before: per year, the cops arrested 1,000 drug users.

After: per year, cops arrested 300 drug dealers.

Did crime go way down?

[tshile]

Everyone knows that Trump is the only Hillary plant.  A gun could never be a Hillary plant.

 

Or could it?

 

ask vince foster

 

[Predicto]

Well....did crime not go down on his watch? Do you have statistics that show he lied about that?

Lots of people hated his policies, but never could argue with results that seemed to happen...crime down, alot of homeless people off the streets. I'll wait for the statistics that argue against that.

 

 

Yes, crime did go down on Rudy's watch.   It actually went down a ton on David Dinkins' watch before Guiliani got there.  

 

And it went down in San Francisco and Atlanta and places all over the country.   

[Gamebreaker]

Well....did crime not go down on his watch? Do you have statistics that show he lied about that?

Lots of people hated his policies, but never could argue with results that seemed to happen...crime down, alot of homeless people off the streets. I'll wait for the statistics that argue against that.

 

The statistics show crime was going down 4 years before he became Mayor. He has been taking credit for work that was happening regardless of him being Mayor or not. And sorry, crime going down by any means necessary isn't an acceptable form of policing. Violating the rights of 90% of the people your officers encounter in order to catch a miniscule amount of criminals through that method is lazy and immoral. 

[Predicto]

Granted, all I've read about Predicto's link is what he posted. But a theory:

Before: per year, the cops arrested 1,000 drug users.

After: per year, cops arrested 300 drug dealers.

Did crime go way down?

 

 

No - crime really has gone down in NYC and incredible amount.   The transformation there has been astounding.  

 

But very little of it is because of Guiliani's crackdowns.  It is much more about other improvements in policing, particularly hiring 8000 more police officers and putting them into the community instead of in cars.   That was the part that the NY police did in spite of Guiliani, not because of him.

[twa]

Tangled with a friend of mine just now whose a cop. He flat out said he believed Sterling was a justified shoot. Crazy.

 

not crazy at all if you look at it w/o emotion....which of course is hard to do for many.

[TheGreatBuzz]

I read somewhere that crime went down because we legalized abortion so the lower class wouldn't breed little criminals at a high rate. 

 

 

*Ducks*

[justice98]

The world is watching. Even China is telling us to mind our own business on human rights.

[Mr. Sinister]

The statistics show crime was going down 4 years before he became Mayor. He has been taking credit for work that was happening regardless of him being Mayor or not. And sorry, crime going down by any means necessary isn't an acceptable form of policing. Violating the rights of 90% of the people your officers encounter in order to catch a miniscule amount of criminals through that method is lazy and immoral.

At the end of the day its all about the numbers

[Gamebreaker]

At the end of the day its all about the numbers

 

Yep, his alter ego Martin O'Malley agrees. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Crime has gone dramatically across the country for a variety of reasons. Rudy Guiliani going after squeegee men did not reduce the national murder rate to 1960 levels.

[PeterMP]

Maybe you should.  Rudy takes credit for a tough, zero tolerance for any crime policy, which he called the "broken windows" theory.   

 

here's another article you should read.  It's short.

 

 http://www.businessinsider.com/criticism-for-giulianis-broken-windows-theory-2013-8

 

I think your link is a little down on the broken windows theory.

 

Though it is has less to do with enforcement and more to do just keeping up the environment, but there have been good controlled studies where they actually did controls by leaving some areas alone that indicate that cleaning up an area and keep it clean prevents larger crimes.

 

https://www.influenceatwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/BrokenWindowsArticle.pdf

 

Realistically, there is probably an economic component to this as tourists and the likes are more likely to visit cleaner areas because they perceive them as safer, which means more economic activity and less poverty.

 

Arresting graffiti artists alone doesn't really do anything, but cleaning up graffiti and preventing new graffiti so the general environment appears cleaner is effective where arresting graffiti artists is one way of preventing new graffiti.

 

**EDIT**

I'll point out there are multiple studies that show the same thing is true for education.  Students learn better in a well maintained and clean school.