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The Supreme Court, and abortion.

Larry

By Larry
in The Tailgate

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gbear

gbear

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Psaki is my favorite for the best press secretary ever.  She is very very quick witted and well prepared.  Her willingness to call on Fox reporters is also very effective as she takes a second to put down whatever weak strawman is being put forward.

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gbear

gbear

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Quick question, what evidence would be used to bring a lawsuit?  How will they prove an abortion happened or how many weeks along a woman was at the time of abortion?  Are they unsealing medical records?  It would seem tantamount to claiming a murder happened with no body.  

 

Further, what level of proof would be required?  Is it only a "more likely than not" level of proof as decided by a majority of jurors?  If so, this sets up some other scary potential laws.  I think I could convince a majority of people that Apple or some other big company ripped us off and should have to pay us back...   

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bearrock

bearrock

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16 minutes ago, gbear said:

Quick question, what evidence would be used to bring a lawsuit?  How will they prove an abortion happened or how many weeks along a woman was at the time of abortion?  Are they unsealing medical records?  It would seem tantamount to claiming a murder happened with no body.  

 

Further, what level of proof would be required?  Is it only a "more likely than not" level of proof as decided by a majority of jurors?  If so, this sets up some other scary potential laws.  I think I could convince a majority of people that Apple or some other big company ripped us off and should have to pay us back...   

 

Short of medical providers fudging records, the info would be in the medical record of the patient.  Plaintiff would likely get access to redacted medical records under a protective order that would show the steps taken to ascertain that the pregnancy is less than 6 weeks and that an abortion was performed.

 

Unless Texas made it harder (seems unlikely), it's a civil lawsuit.  More than likely standard.  Texas requires 5/6th of the jury agreeing for civil verdicts.

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China

China

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Match CEO and Bumble create relief funds for employees affected by Texas abortion law

 

Companies behind the U.S.’s largest dating apps are reacting to Texas’ restrictive abortion law that was allowed to go into effect this week by the Supreme Court.

 

Bumble, based in Austin, said it was creating a relief fund supporting people seeking abortions in the state.

 

“Bumble is women-founded and women-led, and from day one we’ve stood up for the most vulnerable. We’ll keep fighting against regressive laws like #SB8,” the company said in a tweet, referring to the legislation signed in May by Republican Gov. Greg Abbott. The law bans most abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, a time period before many women have even discovered they’re pregnant.

 

A Bumble spokesperson declined to comment.

 

Match Group CEO Shar Dubey also announced in a memo to employees that she would personally create a fund to support Texas-based workers and dependents who needed to seek care outside of the state, a company spokesperson confirmed to CNBC.

 

Match, based in Dallas, owns a bevy of dating companies, including its namesake app Match along with Hinge, Tinder and OKCupid.

 

“As I have said before, the company generally does not take political stands unless it is relevant to our business. But in this instance, I personally, as a woman in Texas, could not keep silent,” Dubey said in the memo.

 

Click on the link for the full article

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Momma There Goes That Man

Momma There Goes That Man

Posted
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3 hours ago, gbear said:

Quick question, what evidence would be used to bring a lawsuit?  How will they prove an abortion happened or how many weeks along a woman was at the time of abortion?  Are they unsealing medical records?  It would seem tantamount to claiming a murder happened with no body.  

 

Further, what level of proof would be required?  Is it only a "more likely than not" level of proof as decided by a majority of jurors?  If so, this sets up some other scary potential laws.  I think I could convince a majority of people that Apple or some other big company ripped us off and should have to pay us back...   

 

Don’t know but I’m also not sure the legislation purpose even cares about this at all. The deterrent is there in that as long as you are accused you are on the hook for the legal bills even if you are found to not have had an abortion. The entire point isn’t to actually hand out $10,000 to people, it’s to terrify everyone of a trial, public shaming, stress, and lawyer costs dealing with a false accusation. “Don’t even think about having an abortion or else.”

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Larry

Larry

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3 hours ago, bearrock said:

Unless Texas made it harder (seems unlikely), it's a civil lawsuit.  More than likely standard.  Texas requires 5/6th of the jury agreeing for civil verdicts.


I also understand that the rules in civil court are that any person who contributed to a tort in any way is 100% liable for the tort. 
 

Looking forward to when some self-appointed law enforcement citizen decides that if a pregnant Texas woman flies to Virginia, and has an abortion while there, then the airline who flew here there is liable. Because they should have know that allowing a pregnant woman to fly might be an attempt to evade the law.  

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Simmsy

Simmsy

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Democrats To Probe Secretive ‘Shadow Docket’ Following Supreme Court Texas Abortion Ruling

 

Quote

The hearing, to be conducted by the Senate Judiciary Committee in the coming weeks, will probe the so-called “shadow docket” of emergency appeals the Supreme Court has relied on with increasing frequency to issue rulings, often of massive consequence, with little public deliberation or notice. An analysis conducted by Reuters found that the court’s emergency appeals rulings over the past year often favored religious groups and Donald Trump’s administration. 

I guess we're gearing up for a fight, eh?

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The Sisko

The Sisko

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ball Security said:

That would be pretty funny, if this wasn’t so ****ing awful.  I definitely understand finding levity in these situations, I’m just not there yet.

^^This. A lot of women are going to die because of this, not only in Texas but all the other southern fascist states that are already working to pile on.

1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Don’t know but I’m also not sure the legislation purpose even cares about this at all. The deterrent is there in that as long as you are accused you are on the hook for the legal bills even if you are found to not have had an abortion. The entire point isn’t to actually hand out $10,000 to people, it’s to terrify everyone of a trial, public shaming, stress, and lawyer costs dealing with a false accusation. “Don’t even think about having an abortion or else.”

I'm not a lawyer and my wife who is just rolled her eyes at me when I made this suggestion. However, I'll throw it out there anyway. Why not use the same principle to scare people out of bringing these suits? I'm thinking if people bringing such suits start getting raked over the coals sovereign citizen style, not to mention doxing and all the other internet tools at our disposal, it would have to discourage some, maybe most of them from bringing these suits. Make their lives a living hell and the reward for all of it will likely be another POC future voter born to vote against your side. I'm sure eventually the courts would just keep the identity of the party bringing the suit secret but then other methods could be used.

 

The  Grand Oligarch's Party have shown themselves to be masters at hollowing rights out to the point that the original law stands so that they can claim legitimacy but the actual rights protected in these laws exist in name only. It's time for us to start using legal loopholes to get our way. Using such methods to fight this, voting rights and especially gun rights legislation ought to be at the top of the list for the brightest legal minds on the left. They continue to work through the system instead of subverting it as the right does and we're the ones left paying the price. I for one am pretty damn sick of it.

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bearrock

bearrock

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Looked over the text.  There's an interesting loophole.  Easily patchable, but interesting nonetheless.  The law only allows a single recovery per incident  and previous payment for a violation is an affirmative defense to future lawsuits.  You could conceivably have two providers be matched up into a quid pro quo arrangement where after each abortion, they race to the courthouse to sue each other and then they would immediately concede liability and enter an agreed judgment (even if someone sues before the providers have a chance to file suit against each other, the providers would be able to cooperate and have a judgment entered before the answers are even due on the other lawsuits). 

 

Once the providers pay each other the judgments (keep the number of abortions performed even to match the money exchanging hands), they are now immune from liability arising out the abortion.  A little wonky, but if pro-choice groups wanted to ensure continued access to abortion pending Roe/Casey being overturned, they use it to keep abortions available in Texas.

 

The problem is that the state could easily patch it by allowing unlimited suits.

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Larry

Larry

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2 hours ago, mammajamma said:

GoDaddy already pulling their hosting for the whistleblower site. Plus multiple scripts already made to overflow the form/site..

 

This thing is blowing up already

 

Such triumphs will be short lived.  the law is going to "work".  

 

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The 12th Commandment

The 12th Commandment

Posted
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14 hours ago, gbear said:

Psaki is my favorite for the best press secretary ever.  She is very very quick witted and well prepared.  Her willingness to call on Fox reporters is also very effective as she takes a second to put down whatever weak strawman is being put forward.

She's better than Aaron Sorkin.  And IRL too.  I love her.

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mammajamma

mammajamma

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24 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Such triumphs will be short lived.  the law is going to "work".  

 

the whole thing revolves around people reporting other people online... there are too many obstacles and too many creative people to let that work easily. maybe it'll be enough to at least buy time until someone can get a case to a competent federal judge

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bearrock

bearrock

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1 minute ago, mammajamma said:

the whole thing revolves around people reporting other people online... there are too many obstacles and too many creative people to let that work easily. maybe it'll be enough to at least buy time until someone can get a case to a competent federal judge

 

It'll work by scaring off abortion providers.  Realistically, what doctor is gonna put their livelihood on the line in this climate?  Doesn't matter what a lower court judge does, the writing is on the wall that SCOTUS is going to overturn Roe/Casey.  When that happens, any action to protect the abortion providers by a lower court judge will become moot.

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