The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[Renegade7]

1 hour ago, spjunkies said:

I'm getting sick of these games. I don't know what can be done but I'd find some way to punish Florida and Texas for this bull****.

 

Spending millions on one-way bus tickets?  Can the Feds audit the states for where that money came from? 

 

Don't governors have to spend money as dictated by their state legislative branch same as POTUS spends how Congress tells them to?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Ok, you're being intentionally obtuse about it now.

No I’m not. You can feel free to explain how this is indignant, but I don’t think it is. 

 

34 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

I see both sides of the argument but my question is, how is this not kidnapping?  Taking someone against their will to a place they don't want to go a just dropping them off?  Can NYC round up all their homeless and ship them to Texas?

They are illegal immigrants, so essentially they are prisoners…

[skinsmarydu]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Spending millions on one-way bus tickets?  Can the Feds audit the states for where that money came from? 

 

Don't governors have to spend money as dictated by their state legislative branch same as POTUS spends how Congress tells them to?

Yes, and iirc, have to meet their budgets. 

 

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

They are illegal immigrants, so essentially they are prisoners…

 

Not without charges they aren't, otherwise they are releasing charged criminals on the streets of another jurisdiction, knowingly, and making it their problem.  Where's the due process to dispute this if they don't want to go?  Why aren't they being dropped of at immigration courts in NY and DC? 

 

These are refugees seeking asylum, and they, like prisoners, even prisoners of war, have some internally recognized and internationally recognized rights.

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 hours ago, Captain Wiggles said:

I'm enjoying the thought that Martha's Vinyard is a "sanctuary city". Where next? The Hamptons? 🤣

 

 

Kennebunkport, ME.

[@DCGoldPants]

its all politics, and the Dems would be stupid to not use this. Ads running on spanish language stations in Florida with heavy religious undertones about DeSantis turning his back on Jesus and the Church while targeting "your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." instead of special interests and billionares who own him. 

 

Something like that. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

6 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

No I’m not. You can feel free to explain how this is indignant, but I don’t think it is. 

 

 

Okay, fine. 

 

First of all, it's obvious their presence isn't wanted or welcomed.  And so DeSantis is using that as a political message, game, prank, whatever, to pwn the libz.    

 

To be frank, I find what DeSantis did to be juvenile, amongst other things.  Juvenile Spiff would find humor in targeting someone he didn't like by lighting a bag of dog **** on fire and leaving it on someone's step, ringing the doorbell and running away.  Mind you, I never actually did that but I would have found it hilarious and I considered it several times but always thought better of it.  Whatever punishment laid ahead for me wasn't worth the few minutes of whatever shallow delight I'd have found.

 

As juvenile as it is, you're just using an inanimate object to cause a minor amount of discomfort for a laugh or to extract revenge, send a message, whatever.  Take it further, egg someone's house, TP someone's tree, or really raise the stakes and key someone's car or destroy some property.  They're all actions usually perpetrated by kids who don't know how to properly express what they're thinking and feeling.  They just want to lash out and cause a commotion, inconvenience somebody and ultimately make someone feel bad.

 

DeSantis, I am sure, thinks he just lit a bag of dog **** on fire and left it on someone's step.  And his followers are all like YEAH, AWESOME, HILARIOUS.

 

The problem here is that he actually didn't light a bag of dog **** on fire, he's using people to make his point.  People who aren't welcome and wanted in Florida and viewed as a problem so he's going to shuffle them off to another part of the country where, hopefully, they aren't welcomed and wanted and viewed as a problem.  Those people have feelings and I'm pretty sure they risked life and limb to get here to make a better life for themselves and their families, not to be used as, metaphorically, a bag of dog ****. They deserve some dignity and respect, not to be used as pawns in some ****ing idiot's game of pwning the libz.  

 

Loosely related, DeSantis considers himself a Christian and yet he's doing something that I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve of which is usually on-brand for conservative Christians these days.  The whole WWJD thing suddenly stops when politics and social issues are on the table for some reason, I can't quite figure out why that is.

 

To recap, I find his actions disgusting for two reasons, each of them not more important than the other:  first to see an elected leader who can't persuade people onto his side of the argument or legislate his way out of it make some kind of publicity stunt that doesn't fix anything and hopefully pisses off his political opponents is ****ing stupid.  Flat out.  Second, the people that he's using for his stunt have feelings and deserve dignity and respect.  The feelings of not being wanted and not being welcomed are terrible, and DeSantis just amplified that feeling for these people by a good amount.  

 

If the concepts of "not being wanted," "not being welcomed" and being used to "hopefully cause angst, discomfort" by their mere presence alone are lost on you, then that's a CC84 problem and maybe you should reflect on why that is.  If most of the other posters here get it, understand it and you don't...well, that's on you.  

 

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Good times.  
 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

35 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

Okay, fine. 

 

First of all, it's obvious their presence isn't wanted or welcomed. 

 

By anyone, democrats or republicans, apparently.

35 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

To be frank, I find what DeSantis did to be juvenile, amongst other things

 

I agree it is juvenile, especially when he is spending $$$$$ tax payer money to do it.

 

35 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 he's using people to make his point.  People who aren't welcome and wanted in Florida and viewed as a problem so he's going to shuffle them off to another part of the country where, hopefully, they aren't welcomed and wanted and viewed as a problem.  Those people have feelings and I'm pretty sure they risked life and limb to get here to make a better life for themselves and their families, not to be used as, metaphorically, a bag of dog ****.

 

 

 

So, I see. You are upset that he is EXPOSING bias against illegal immigrants?
 

Like, when DeSantis sends them there, and the democratic mayors complain and enact states of emergency, it exposes the fact that the democratic governors/mayors view illegals a problem and as unwanted. And you the him exposing them is immoral. Well, I have to say I disagree with you. 

 

35 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

The whole WWJD thing suddenly stops when politics and social issues are on the table for some reason, I can't quite figure out why that is.

 

Christians are hypocrites. A story as old as Jesus himself.

[tshile]

@CousinsCowgirl84

i think I’m the only one that “gets” what you’re saying. 
 

but even then it’s sort of hard to ignore actual people being physically used as pawns. 
 

I enjoy a good “**** you” stunt as much as anyone but that part is this is worth being bothered by. 
 

but otherwise, I’m with you

[The Evil Genius]

Personally, I wish some people would stop referring to others as illegal. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by The Evil Genius

[CousinsCowgirl84]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

@CousinsCowgirl84

i think I’m the only one that “gets” what you’re saying. 
 

but even then it’s sort of hard to ignore actual people being physically used as pawns. 
 

I enjoy a good “**** you” stunt as much as anyone but that part is this is worth being bothered by. 
 

but otherwise, I’m with you

I agree it’s unfortunate but it’s kind of the bed we’ve made. The truth is these illegal immigrants are mostly good people who are absolutely desperate for a better life and who are absolutely a heavy burden on the already social welfare systems of the cities they immigrate to. Desantis is making that point. He is disingenuous though, where maybe the democratic mayor from dc isn’t, in that he isn’t interested in doing anything to fortify our social welfare systems, that are in desperate need of improvement, illegal immigrants or not.

[Spaceman Spiff]

24 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

By anyone, democrats or republicans, apparently.

 

I agree it is juvenile, especially when he is spending $$$$$ tax payer money to do it.

 

 

So, I see. You are upset that he is EXPOSING bias against illegal immigrants?
 

Like, when DeSantis sends them there, and the democratic mayors complain and enact states of emergency, it exposes the fact that the democratic governors/mayors view illegals a problem and as unwanted. And you the him exposing them is immoral. Well, I have to say I disagree with you. 

 

Christians are hypocrites. A story as old as Jesus himself.

 

 

I don't think DeSantis is trying to expose bias.  Maybe he is, but if he is that's probably secondary for what his real goal is which is to piss people off who have a different political and social view on things than him.  Everything I've seen and heard from his is just a conservative wet dream of doing everything he possibly can to agitate fellow countrymen who have different beliefs and he doesn't care who he uses in the process.  

[The Evil Genius]

5 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I agree it’s unfortunate but it’s kind of the bed we’ve made. The truth is these illegal immigrants are mostly good people who are absolutely desperate for a better life and who are absolutely a heavy burden on the already social welfare systems of the cities they immigrate to. Desantis is making that point. He is disingenuous though, where maybe the democratic mayor from dc isn’t, in that he isn’t interested in doing anything to fortify our social welfare systems, that are in desperate need of improvement, illegal immigrants or not.

 

You know who else is a heavy burden? Retired septagenarians and older that encompass a large percentage of Florida.  I don't see Dumbantis busing them back to Joisey. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by The Evil Genius

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

You know who else is a heavy burden? Retired septagenarians and older that encompass a large percentage of Florida.  I don't see Dumbantis busing them back to Joisey. 

He does it every may…. And at a much lower cost!

3 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

I don't think DeSantis is trying to expose bias.  Maybe he is, but if he is that's probably secondary for what his real goal is which is to piss people off who have a different political and social view on things than him.  

Oh yeah, I don’t think he is trying to expose bias; just that he is.

[The Evil Genius]

1 minute ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

He does it every may…. And at a much lower cost!

 

Tbf, he did allow them to die at a higher rate from covid than most of the US. 

[China]

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

Oh yeah, I don’t think he is trying to expose bias; just that he is.

 

Well, great.  I'm not sure what that solves.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

well, did they round them up or did they do this with recent crossers that they had locked up already?

 

there’s a huge difference in those two scenarios to me. 
 

I had assumed they had not gone around rounding people up - but, you know, sort of dangerous to assume I suppose 

 

Either way, if they are "prisoners" because they violated the law, they you are resposible for housing them (prison) or let them go. To take them, assuming it is against their will, to another state and just drop them sounds like kidnapping.

 

2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

They are illegal immigrants, so essentially they are prisoners…

 

Okay, then see above for housing or releasing prisoners.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Well, great.  I'm not sure what that solves.  

I didn’t say it solved anything… it’s just silly to hear democrats say no one should be called illegal and then once they get dropped off call up a state of emergency, my two cent.

Edited September 15, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, China said:

 

 

See, now this is the type of fight I can get behind.

[Spaceman Spiff]

8 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I didn’t say it solved anything… it’s just silly to hear democrats say no one should be called illegal and then once they get dropped off call up a state of emergency, my two cent.

 

I don't entirely disagree with that.  It's fun to point out hypocrisy but it often doesn't really help with anything and it's above all else, a pretty lazy way to make an argument.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Spaceman Spiff

[tshile]

31 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

 

I don't think DeSantis is trying to expose bias.  

 

27 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Oh yeah, I don’t think he is trying to expose bias; just that he is.

On this thought - I assume it’s a campaign move to be tough on illegals, to get a “lol owning the libs” moment and general airtime, and I think it’s a move to distract from the failures of the administration. 
 

Abbot wins if the discussion is about bussing illegals to sanctuary cities to make it their problem. Them flipping out and declaring a state of emergency only improves the win for him. 
 

he loses if the primary discussion is how he’s failed to properly manage/fix things like the power grid. 
 

and dems will fall for it because they chase every stick thrown off the porch like a good dog. 
 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

4 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

The Democratic Party is a lot more fractured than the Republican Party. 

I’m not sure that’s true any more.

[tshile]

27 minutes ago, The Almighty Buzz said:

Either way, if they are "prisoners" because they violated the law, they you are resposible for housing them (prison) or let them go. To take them, assuming it is against their will, to another state and just drop them sounds like kidnapping.

yeah that part of it is beyond me. I don’t know what the law says about that. We certainly have taken them over the border and dropped them off against their will. While we have a legal deportation process for that it’s not entirely clear to me that’s always how that happens.  🤷‍♂️ 

 

But taking an illegal that’s been living in a house for years with family and a part of the community (job, kids in school, etc) is different than taking people you caught after crossing the border. The former would be kidnapping to me. I don’t know how the later is. Who’s to say Texas was their intended destination anyways - and according to them they just want to be in the country in general.

 

🤷‍♂️ it’s fun for me to discuss the strategy, impact, law, etc. and like I said early I enjoy a good “**** you” move as much as anyone. But - these are people and I hate that aspect of it.