The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[Ball Security]

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

5 minutes ago, bearrock said:

First, I think it's doubtful that final settlement figure would be that high for everyone (especially in light of the political backlash).  You may have a scaled compensation chart that may go up to a very high amount, but the leaked number is probably unlikely.  But with some of the really bad cases, the government may not want to roll the dice with a jury.

Biden has already dismissed that 450k figure. It would be fiscally smarter to settle but folks don't want to hear that. All they'll see is that Biden gave "them there illegals" 450k.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

4 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

It's not either/or.  Just like a wrongfully convicted gets released and also financial compensation, they are trying to do both.  

You seemed to have focused on the not (intended to be) important part of my post. I am genuinely asking the question as to where the heck are the actual children? I was in no way making an opinion on the payout. 

[bearrock]

2 hours ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

You seemed to have focused on the not (intended to be) important part of my post. I am genuinely asking the question as to where the heck are the actual children? I was in no way making an opinion on the payout. 

 

Trump administration kept terrible records on the children being separated, many cases not even noting the parents' information.  Then they sat on it for couple of years and now the new administration is trying sift through the shoddy records to make sense of it all.  It's not too surprising that they can't connect the kids to the parents in foreign countries.  I think one judge wrote that the government keeps better track of its properties than they did with the kids being separated.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

6 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Trump administration kept terrible records on the children being separated, many cases not even noting the parents' information.  Then they sat on it for couple of years and now the new administration is trying sift through the shoddy records to make sense of it all.  It's not too surprising that they can't connect the kids to the parents in foreign countries.  I think one judge wrote that the government keeps better track of its properties than they did with the kids being separated.

Again. 
 

Where are they?

Not metaphorically. 
Physically. 
 

Are they still in cages? Were they sold to rich white families under the guise of adoption? Are they being sex trafficked? Are they safe in legit foster homes? 
 

You seem to think I’m somehow blaming the Biden administration. I’m simply trying to figure out….where the actual children are. 

[bearrock]

52 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Again. 
 

Where are they?

Not metaphorically. 
Physically. 
 

Are they still in cages? Were they sold to rich white families under the guise of adoption? Are they being sex trafficked? Are they safe in legit foster homes? 
 

You seem to think I’m somehow blaming the Biden administration. I’m simply trying to figure out….where the actual children are. 

 

I'm not defending the Biden administration nor would I care if you attacked them.  When a debacle of this magnitude happens, no one really gets to walk away without blame.

 

They are treated like other unaccompanied children.  Legal guardians if someone obtains such status.  Relatives in US if they can be located.  USCIS sponsors if no one else is available (essentially foster parents).  Group homes as a last or interim resort.

Edited November 14, 2021 by bearrock

[Larry]

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

Trump administration kept terrible records on the children being separated, many cases not even noting the parents' information.  Then they sat on it for couple of years and now the new administration is trying sift through the shoddy records to make sense of it all. 

I'm pretty convinced that "quickly send the kid through multiple agencies, and intentionally lose the paperwork" was an intentional part of the plan. 
 

Both because of the "now we get to really **** with these people" aspect. And because they knew damned well that what they were doing was war crimes-level of evil, and their plan when a judge told them so was to fall back on "Gee, Your Honor. We're unable to comply with your order, because darn, there's no paperwork". 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

1 hour ago, bearrock said:

 

I'm not defending the Biden administration nor would I care if you attacked them.  When a debacle of this magnitude happens, no one really gets to walk away without blame.

 

They are treated like other unaccompanied children.  Legal guardians if someone obtains such status.  Relatives in US if they can be located.  USCIS sponsors if no one else is available (essentially foster parents).  Group homes as a last or interim resort.

So. If we can find the parents to pay them. Why can’t we find the parents to reunite them. This is what I am completely confused about. 

[bearrock]

34 minutes ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

So. If we can find the parents to pay them. Why can’t we find the parents to reunite them. This is what I am completely confused about. 

 

Some of the plaintiffs are families who have already been reunited and now seeking financial compensation. Some plaintiffs are children whose parents still can't be located.  I don't think there are any parents who would receive financial settlement but would still be denied reunification with their children (though best interest of the child could dictate such a result, I'm not aware of any case where an identified parent was denied reunification due to the intervening events that occurred after separation.  I guess it's possible though)

[thegreaterbuzzette]

16 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

Some of the plaintiffs are families who have already been reunited and now seeking financial compensation. Some plaintiffs are children whose parents still can't be located.  I don't think there are any parents who would receive financial settlement but would still be denied reunification with their children (though best interest of the child could dictate such a result, I'm not aware of any case where an identified parent was denied reunification due to the intervening events that occurred after separation.  I guess it's possible though)

You seem to really still be missing my main point. 

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

You seem to really still be missing my main point. 

 

You're asking where the parents are.  The answer is that they can't find some of the parents.  There are many different reasons for why that is, but that's what it boils down to.  If there's another point that I've missed, feel free to elaborate exactly what that point is.

[thegreaterbuzzette]

43 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

You're asking where the parents are.  The answer is that they can't find some of the parents.  There are many different reasons for why that is, but that's what it boils down to.  If there's another point that I've missed, feel free to elaborate exactly what that point is.

Actually, I’m asking where the CHILDREN are….

 

 

I feel like you are deliberately attempting to not understand me at this point. 

[China]

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Actually, I’m asking where the CHILDREN are….

 

 

I feel like you are deliberately attempting to not understand me at this point. 

 

Maybe you missed this in his earlier post (they are in various locations):

 

21 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

 

They are treated like other unaccompanied children.  Legal guardians if someone obtains such status.  Relatives in US if they can be located.  USCIS sponsors if no one else is available (essentially foster parents).  Group homes as a last or interim resort.

 

[thegreaterbuzzette]

2 hours ago, China said:

 

Maybe you missed this in his earlier post (they are in various locations):

 

 

Exactly, which means we know where these children are. So instead of giving a mechanism to hand out money…. Let’s do the work to give them their children back. 

[tshile]

Those are two separate things going on at the same time. The money is part of lawsuits filed. 
 

it’s a weird stance that one shouldn’t be done so that the other is done. They’re not tied together.

[Cooked Crack]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-border-families-could-be-separated-forever

Quote

Since Biden’s Interagency Task Force on the Reunification of Families was created by executive order nine months ago, its work has proceeded at a glacial pace. The task force has only reunited 58 children with their parents since its formation, according the Department of Homeland Security, just eight more kids since the release of a progress report in October that showed 1,727 children still believed to be separated from their parents. 

 

The leaden pace of family reunifications has not been for a lack of trying on the task force’s part. Working alongside non-governmental organizations and attorneys representing families torn apart by former President Donald Trump’s “zero tolerance” immigration policies, the task force has made contact with nearly 1,300 families since its inception. They expect more to come after the launch of twin websites—one in English and another in Spanish, with five additional languages for indigenous speakers who were particularly vulnerable to Trump’s policies—that allow separated families to register with the government and begin the reunification. According to DHS, 211 additional children have been identified through those websites. 

 

But amidst growing public scrutiny over negotiations to provide financial settlements to some of the thousands of families that were separated under the Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” immigration policies, attorneys and advocates who have spent years working to reunite those children with their loved ones warn that reunification is more than simply a question of matching parents and children. 

 

Under Trump’s policy, many parents who had been forcibly separated from their children upon crossing the U.S.-Mexico border were told that they had a choice: either be deported immediately and leave their children to seek an asylum claim alone, or be deported with their child to their home countries, where children are often particularly vulnerable to exploitation and violence at the hands of local gangs or corrupt government officials. 

 

Family members who were swiftly deported to their countries of origin while their children remained in the United States to adjudicate their asylum claims, one attorney told The Daily Beast, have no interest in a “reunification” if it requires a child returning to a country where their life could be in danger.

Latest article I could find on the unification situation

[bearrock]

4 hours ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Actually, I’m asking where the CHILDREN are….

 

 

I feel like you are deliberately attempting to not understand me at this point. 

 

There's certainly no deliberate attempt on my part to not understand you.  I thought I already answered the question on whereabouts of the separated children so when you said I'm avoiding your point, I assumed you were referring to the parents.  If your point all along has been the whereabouts of the children, I think we covered that.

 

1 hour ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Exactly, which means we know where these children are. So instead of giving a mechanism to hand out money…. Let’s do the work to give them their children back. 

 

You can't give the children back unless we can locate the parents.  Some parents don't know to contact the USCIS to ask for the children.  Some parents deliberately don't want to be found to give their kids the best shot at an asylum (so they think).  Some parents may have met an unfortunate end in the meantime.  Locating the children is only half the battle.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by bearrock

[Forehead]

On 11/13/2021 at 6:42 PM, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Again. 
 

Where are they?

Not metaphorically. 
Physically. 

 

Not that I necessarily want to derail this to a different topic, but this should be an example pointed out to morons who think everyone is being microchipped by the Covid vaccine.  We can't even keep track of a few thousand kids, you think the government can track 325+ million people with any sort of efficiency?

[skinsmarydu]

5 hours ago, thegreaterbuzzette said:

Actually, I’m asking where the CHILDREN are….

 

 

I feel like you are deliberately attempting to not understand me at this point. 

We very rarely agree, but I'm with ya on this one. 

[bearrock]

43 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

We very rarely agree, but I'm with ya on this one. 

 

I'm really not trying to be disingenuous here, but genuinely puzzled.  If we're discussing where the children are, was my post that China referred to not sufficiently on point?  I only assumed that we were talking about the parents because I was told that I'm missing the point after already having discussed the whereabouts of the children. 

 

I'm really not trying deliberately to not understand or dodge the point (what would be the point of wasting everyone's time like that?).  Having addressed the whereabouts of the children, the parents, why financial compensation issue is a separate issue from reunifying the families, and why some families are still not reunited, I'm not sure what point is left to discuss.  What is the point that I'm missing?  (Again, just genuinely not getting it at this point and would very much appreciate the explanation so I can finally understand)

[skinsmarydu]

It's the same frustration, not anything that you're missing. 

[EmirOfShmo]

Seen here but prolly not on the GQP channels...

 

 

[LD0506]

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Larry]

Part of me has to admire the guy's guts.  I mean, to start with, the odds of being crushed to death in the moving machinery?