The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[TradeTheBeal!]

None of these things happened but “heckled by cartels” is maybe the most didn’t happen thing of all time.

 

 

[EmirOfShmo]

^^ LOL...These assholes did **** all when children were being taken from the parents. NOW they're concerned. Maybe Cruz will yell 'freeeeedommmm' to those seeking asylum.

[Forehead]

27 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

None of these things happened but “heckled by cartels” is maybe the most didn’t happen thing of all time.

 

I've mentioned before that I work for CBP and have probably read tens of thousands of reports by this point in my career about the goings on at the Border.  I am pretty comfortable guessing the following:

 

There attempts to stage a photo like they were out in the bush is laughable.  Because what USBP agents tracking people in the dark for apprehension want most is to have stage lighting around for a photo op, which is what appears to be going on in the first photo.  

 

Also, big scary cartel members aren't normally ferrying people across the border to give themselves up.  They tend to focus on more lucrative things like drugs.  The guides (often teenagers) may work for them but they aren't usually scary, tattooed guys carrying around guns.  And at the first sign of the Border patrol, those guys tend to take off into the brush because they know the terrain like the back of their hand even in pitch dark.  They leave the people who paid them to fend for themselves.

 

If Ted Cruz was heckled, he was most likely heckled by at worst a teenager, more likely a bunch of tired women and kids, if at all.  But hey, he got his staged photo op.

[visionary]

 

[NoCalMike]

Interesting that the GOP is now referring to this as a humanitarian crisis.  Since they are now admitting that, the press needs to ask them what would be humanitarian about sending minors back to their ravaged countries?

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[tshile]

It’s hard to imagine how an adult male could look more like a loser than Cruz. 

[Larry]

32 minutes ago, tshile said:

It’s hard to imagine how an adult male could look more like a loser than Cruz. 

Ted Cruz, couple years ago. 

[Forehead]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

It’s hard to imagine how an adult male could look more like a loser than Cruz. 

 

Ted Cruz still wins the gold medal, but the photo of him at the Trump phone bank with a sad expression, knowing he was campaigning for the guy who insulted his wife publicly.

[visionary]

 

[Riggo-toni]

On 3/26/2021 at 9:34 PM, visionary said:

 

No matter what, she will never be as disastrous as putting Mike Pence in charge of the coronavirus task force.

[Destino]

The problem democrats have is the US immigration system is completely broken.  The system doesn’t even have the capacity to handle the problem on a day to day basis.  This is what caused the “kids in cages” problem in the first place, but it’s not just a question of where to put the people detained.  Immigration courts can’t handle it either.  There isn’t an effective system, or enough people, in place to track all the immigrants that enter legally but overstay.  
 

None of the above even really touches on the problem of illegal immigrant population as a whole.  The US has an illegal alien population so large that if they were a state, they’d be in the top ten in terms of population.  
 

The entire system is a cobbled together mess that gets controlled by political winds instead of the reality on the ground.  All it does is chug along creating nightmare stories for the immigrants caught up in it without any chance whatsoever of actually achieving an ordered and well run national system.  
 

Biden did his VP no favors by putting her in charge of any of it.
 

 

[Larry]

Can the Dems fix some of it?  

For example, would increasing (maybe even doubling?) the number of immigration judges reduce the backlog, and in turn, the number being held?  (And give the Dems the ability to pick the judges and staff?)  Can they streamline the system?  (And also, create some Dem-written rules that can't just be ignored by an EO, or the whim of a Trump appointee?)

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Can the Dems fix some of it?  

For example, would increasing (maybe even doubling?) the number of immigration judges reduce the backlog, and in turn, the number being held?  (And give the Dems the ability to pick the judges and staff?)  Can they streamline the system?  (And also, create some Dem-written rules that can't just be ignored by an EO, or the whim of a Trump appointee?)

The problem with democrats is that within there own party there’s no agreement on what to do.  AOC wants to abolish ICE and opposition to illegal entry has been framed as racism, making it radioactive.  Union supported old school dems aren’t entirely sold on work visas because it competes for jobs. (This is why Bernie Sanders opposed comprehensive reform during Obama.) 
 

No one wants a massive increase in funding, even though it’s necessary.   And then there’s the politically unpopular word “amnesty” to deal with. 
 

If I had to fix illegal immigration I’d start here:

- Greatly expand the number of immigration courts. 

- I’d secure the southern border with drones and man power.  This would include using eminent domain to secure land along the border wherever necessary.  
- Pay any illegal immigrant inside the US 10k to go home willingly, with no court appearance of any kind and no strings attached. 
- End the policy of allowing amnesty applications from the border or within the US.  Those already here can do so but no more (for now).  
- Green cards for all illegals currently in the US for more than five years that have committed no felonies or violent crimes.  

- Green card for all students here on visas that successfully complete their degree work at US schools, assuming they want one.

All of this has just one primary goal, clear the backlog and get the system out of its current humanitarian crisis.

[Larry]

18 minutes ago, Destino said:

The problem with democrats is that within there own party there’s no agreement on what to do.  AOC wants to abolish ICE and opposition to illegal entry has been framed as racism, making it radioactive.  Union supported old school dems aren’t entirely sold on work visas because it competes for jobs. (This is why Bernie Sanders opposed comprehensive reform during Obama.) 
 

No one wants a massive increase in funding, even though it’s necessary.   And then there’s the politically unpopular word “amnesty” to deal with. 
 

If I had to fix illegal immigration I’d start here:

- Greatly expand the number of immigration courts. 

- I’d secure the southern border with drones and man power.  This would include using eminent domain to secure land along the border wherever necessary.  
- Pay any illegal immigrant inside the US 10k to go home willingly, with no court appearance of any kind and no strings attached. 
- End the policy of allowing amnesty applications from the border or within the US.  Those already here can do so but no more (for now).  
- Green cards for all illegals currently in the US for more than five years that have committed no felonies or violent crimes.  

- Green card for all students here on visas that successfully complete their degree work at US schools, assuming they want one.

All of this has just one primary goal, clear the backlog and get the system out of its current humanitarian crisis.

I'm pretty good for almost all of those. 

Your suggestion for amnesty, I have a problem with. Kinda tough to tell somebody who legitimately needs amnesty to stay I'm the situation he's fleeing, fill out some forms, and then stay there. 

Granted, the other options suck, too. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

30 minutes ago, Destino said:

The problem with democrats is that within there their own party

 

C’mon man.

[tshile]

Someone put destino in charge

[NoCalMike]

Immigration will continue to be a messy situation until both political parties actually want to fix the situation.  I don't think it will ever be fixed in the way some idealists would like, but it can still be improved vastly over what it is currently.

[Riggo-toni]

Last president who did true immigration reform was Reagan. Encouraged country to welcome the "boat people" from Asia with open arms, and then gave a path to citizenship for all who had been here for a number of years and not committed any crime. Hard to believe it was hardcore GOP lawmakers who criticized GHWB for not granting automatic residency to Chinese national students studying in America after Tienemen Square.

[PeterMP]

The solution to the immigration problem from a US border stand point is to go after employers.  If you have to pull people off the border and just continually go into work places that are likely to hire illegals and fine the employers.  If companies have to keep paying fines and keep having their work disrupted, they'll quite hiring illegals and if there aren't jobs, people that come illegally will stop coming.  Then you don't have to worry about the border.

 

During the great recession, there was net self-deportation because there weren't jobs.  Start going to farms, construction sites, etc. and look at the paper work of the people working there.  You don't need to arrest them or anything, just fine the employer.  Then go back two weeks later.

 

As those companies start to deal with loss of cheap labor, they'll also line up behind some reasonable immigration policy, and we can have a real discussion of how is the best way to handle the situation.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said:

Last president who did true immigration reform was Reagan. Encouraged country to welcome the "boat people" from Asia with open arms, and then gave a path to citizenship for all who had been here for a number of years and not committed any crime. Hard to believe it was hardcore GOP lawmakers who criticized GHWB for not granting automatic residency to Chinese national students studying in America after Tienemen Square.

 

RINO!

[Riggo-toni]

American citizens aren't going to do the jobs that migrant workers do, so the solution isn't to go after employers but rather to set up things like guest worker programs for migrant farm labor and the like. One of the redneck states (I have forgotten which one... maybe Alabama) set up draconian laws a few years ago against immigrants and lost a fortune in agriculture.

Trump, Buchanan, and all the other demagogues love to blame everything on immigrants while ignoring the tremendous benefits they bring to the country, while hardcore liberals sour average American attitudes by championing coddling initiatives like bilingual education or multi-cultural sensitivity.

Let, hell, even encourage foreign students who get advanced stem degrees to stay in the US and put them on a slow path to citizenship. Repeat Reagan's bill where those who have worked here for more than 5 years and have not committed any felonies can get green cards and pay taxes. End the drug war, at least against mj, to reduce, if only slightly, violence in Central America.

Our population is ageing and the simplest solution to keep entitlements solvent without crippling tax increases is to bring in more qualified youth. Our best weapon against China could be a return to the brain drain where their best and brightest come here.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Riggo-toni