The immigration thread: American Melting Pot or Get off my Lawn

[DogofWar1]

5 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Let's hear the equivocators and apologists defend this, if it is true.

In fairness, exact dates in the article are not great and it appears from some of the affidavits some of the offending acts occurred prior to January 2017 (and some after).

 

It almost sounds like a facility problem (Shiloh) as opposed to a specific administration issue.  Obviously if an expert testified on this in 2008, it pre-dated Obama, occurred at least a little on his watch, and continued thereafter.

 

The key now is to make sure this is not and is not becoming more widespread.  This is the kind of thing that a more callous administration might implement on a wider scale as policy whereas before it was limited to single locations acting alone.

 

This is what concerns me with journalists getting pics from 2016 when requesting photos from inside these facilities.  We have no jdea what policies are being adhered to.

[Dan T.]

1 minute ago, No Excuses said:

 

This needs to be verified by NYT or WaPo but what the **** if it’s true. 

 

Here's a link to the Federal Court filing that makes the claim:

 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4525292-420-2-Exhibit-Vol-2-Exs-21-30-Pages-109-73.html

 

It includes first-hand accounts from children about being injected with medicine unknown to them.  It's an eye-opening read, if you can stomach it.

 

[LD0506]

 

[88Comrade2000]

42 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

Um, who let Mengele in?

 

 

 

If true, doesn't this violate human rights laws? If this happening in a war, it would be a war crime? So, isn't this equivalent to a war crime? People should be heading to jail for this atrocity right?

[Destino]

3 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If true, doesn't this violate human rights laws? If this happening in a war, it would be a war crime? So, isn't this equivalent to a war crime? People should be heading to jail for this atrocity right?

Probably not.  This country has quietly made authority extremely difficult to prosecute for just about any abuse.  Increasingly the only justice available for those abused by the powerful are lawsuits.  

[tshile]

18 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I don't think this will be hard for twa to defend. My guess is that he'll question why we are opposed to children's safety. Besides, keeping them drugged out reduces the stress of missing their parents. Forced and unnecessary use of psychotropics is the best way for them to reduce child abuse by committing child abuse.

 

Besides, where's your sympathy for the poor guards and people running the internment camps. It can't be fun hearing all that wailing and crying.

 

He doesn't need to go that far. Just ask where you all been since 2008 when this was supposedly revealed?

 

[twa]

19 minutes ago, Larry said:

And in sure we can find one kid who got drugged during Obama’s administration. 

 

if you simply look in the court filings

[Burgold]

4 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

He doesn't need to go that far. Just ask where you all been since 2008 when this was supposedly revealed?

 

Where did you read that they were force-drugging kids in 2008? You're not an apologist. Stop trying to act like one.

[UK_HOG]

19 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said:

If true, doesn't this violate human rights laws? If this happening in a war, it would be a war crime? So, isn't this equivalent to a war crime? People should be heading to jail for this atrocity right?

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/44537372

 

America quit the human rights council

[ExoDus84]

26 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

Other98 photo

 

I'd like to see a verifiable source for this. Seems like one of those random photos somebody would create to stir up emotion in what's an otherwise very emotional situation.

[tshile]

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Where did you read that they were force-drugging kids in 2008? You're not an apologist. Stop trying to act like one.

 

The testimony cited is from 2008.

 

Did you even read the stuff, or do you just make up information?

 

Exhibit 30 of forced drugs happened to the guy in that statement in 2014.

 

Maybe you should spend less time trying to figure out how to needle me, and more time reading the actual information? 

[Dan T.]

So Trump says he's going to sign an executive order reversing the child separation policy. 

 

You think he'll stage the signing like the others, where he scribbles his name and then holds up signed order like a third grader showing off his artwork?  My hope is that Stephen Miller, Kirstjen Nielsen, and Jeff Sessions are forced to stand there and watch.

[tshile]

11 minutes ago, twa said:

 

if you simply look in the court filings

 

Most of what i'm seeing so far in this filing is from before Trump even took over.

 

Though it's admittedly a large file, and have read very little of it so far.

 

Many of the reports are dated late 2016, where the summary is about stuff happening beforehand. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by tshile

[tshile]

34 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

In fairness, exact dates in the article are not great and it appears from some of the affidavits some of the offending acts occurred prior to January 2017 (and some after).

 

The court filing, assuming it's authentic, is pretty specific about dates.

Reports are dated, medications are dated...  it's everything from evaluations, to medication schedules, to summaries of people's experiences over the years.

[twa]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Most of what i'm seeing so far in this filing is from before Trump even took over.

 

Though it's admittedly a large file, and have read very little of it so far.

 

Many of the reports are dated late 2016, where the summary is about stuff happening beforehand. 

 

One of the congresscritters here raised a stink about it around 2014 (maybe Barbara Lee?)

 

 

[steve09ru]

here's the court filing if anyone is interested: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4525292-420-2-Exhibit-Vol-2-Exs-21-30-Pages-109-73.html

[Dan T.]

7 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I'd like to see a verifiable source for this. Seems like one of those random photos somebody would create to stir up emotion in what's an otherwise very emotional situation.

 

From KATU - the ABC affiliate in Portland:

 

 

 

From the Washington Times:

 

 

From KGW-TV, the NBC affiliate in Portland:

 

 

Haven't been able to find the quote from the ICE worker about being kept from their families yet.

[Elessar78]

29 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

He doesn't need to go that far. Just ask where you all been since 2008 when this was supposedly revealed?

 

Once they're out of the birth canal, twa no longer needs to fight for them. 

[Dan T.]

2 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Once they're out of the birth canal, twa no longer needs to fight for them. 

 

Or once they cross the Panama Canal.

[twa]

4 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Once they're out of the birth canal, twa no longer needs to fight for them. 

 

At least I give them a chance that far 

 

add

which separation from parent is permanent?

I do support keeping kids in the land of the living.

Edited June 20, 2018 by twa

[Kilmer17]

23 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

The testimony cited is from 2008.

 

Did you even read the stuff, or do you just make up information?

 

Exhibit 30 of forced drugs happened to the guy in that statement in 2014.

 

Maybe you should spend less time trying to figure out how to needle me, and more time reading the actual information? 

crickets.

[Burgold]

22 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

The court filing, assuming it's authentic, is pretty specific about dates.

Reports are dated, medications are dated...  it's everything from evaluations, to medication schedules, to summaries of people's experiences over the years.

I just went through the first five attachments of the court filing and examined every date in the court listing. The earliest date was in 2016 and the latest in 2018. The first five attachments all stipulated cases where the actions in question took place from 2016 onwards.

 

Did you really read all 89 documents over the last hour?

Edited June 20, 2018 by Burgold

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I just went through the first five attachments of the court filing and examined every date in the court listing. The earliest date was in 2016 and the latest in 2018. The first five attachments all stipulated cases where the actions in question took place from 2016 onwards.

 

Did you really read all 89 documents over the last hour?

 

No I skimmed through looking at dates and basic details (Like: this one is a list of prescriptions with start dates, this is a summary of treatment, this is a summery of the person's trip here, etc)

 

The latest was in 2018, or was that the date of a report being filed? 

[Elessar78]

12 minutes ago, twa said:

 

At least I give them a chance that far 

 

add

which separation from parent is permanent?

I do support keeping kids in the land of the living.

your failure is thinking that simply being alive is the end all be all. 

 

Using arguments of morality to support anti-abortion positions then throwing any learning of morality out the window for anything else is a lack of morality. You're immoral. You claim to love God and follow his teachings but you've failed at that. Failed Christians. His judgement will be fierce. 

[Cooked Crack]

39 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

So Trump says he's going to sign an executive order reversing the child separation policy. 

 

You think he'll stage the signing like the others, where he scribbles his name and then holds up signed order like a third grader showing off his artwork?  My hope is that Stephen Miller, Kirstjen Nielsen, and Jeff Sessions are forced to stand there and watch.