DogofWar1 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 34 minutes ago, twa said: If you detain them over 20 days the kids cannot be with them by court order, leaving you to ether remove the kids from parents or release them w/o consequence for illegall entry.....which was the FORMER policy to answer your first question. Releasing them neuters the rule of law in regards to illegally crossing.....which obviously doesn't bother many of you....but it does me. I don't think Trump's policy is the best solution, nor have I claimed so. I could care less what Sasse is saying, but if you will narrow it down I will address it. see how easy it is if you play by the rules? Wait wait wait, "without consequences?" Not really. They would be released with an order to appear for hearings. Now, sure, absconding was a concern, but policies put in place since 2010 had reduced the rate of non-appearances from around 11% to 5%, so the idea that it neuters the rule of law isn't accurate, unless 95% appearance is destructive to the rule of law. And it's not like those people who don't show get off, consequence free. They are at that point fugitives, and can be apprehended at any time, and once processed in, their odds of release would be less (as the standard primarily looks at danger to the community and flight risk, the latter of which they would generally be) and arguments likely less well received. Further, in 2015 a federal judge ruled that the government cannot detain people with the explicit purpose of trying to deter entry, which is what led to updating the "alternative to detention" policies that led to absconding rates of only 5%. And of course this is taking place with the background data that, for the most part, the trend-line on border crossings is downward. In 2000 it was estimated there were 1.6M attempted crossings. In 2012 that number was down to 265K. So again, I think you're trying to play either/or here, and we don't have to. The rule of law was and would be just fine under the previous ruleset which only had a 5% absconding rate, with obviously worse punishments for that 5% who ran. There is no reason to separate families, and no need to. Separating kids and families isn't the only way to enforce the rule of law. It is one method, but it is a woefully inhumane method and no one should be defending it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, twa said: so illegal entry is "minor, stupid, outdated, or ridiculous" in the spirit of your reply...I hope a home intruder is welcome in your house . where do you live?....I'll send a few needy folk in You're justifying families being torn apart because instead of them being "families" they're "families that enter illegally." They broke the rules so **** 'em. Illegal entry is a misdemeanor. It's not exactly murder. The response should be proportionate to the wrong, which certainly would not include familial separation, and hasn't in the past. You're attributing to me policies on immigration I don't subscribe to, by the way, I've been fine with enforcing the law in a humane fashion, while still hoping for comprehensive immigration reform. Meanwhile, you keep trying to get everyone to buy into your "either/or" stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said: You're justifying families being torn apart because instead of them being "families" they're "families that enter illegally." He’s justifying it because it’s a GOP policy. He daily defends illegal activities committed by this administration and its campaign. and he’s nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. Country is broken. Dark times ahead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: He’s justifying it because it’s a GOP policy. He daily defends illegal activities committed by this administration and its campaign. and he’s nowhere near the bottom of the barrel. Country is broken. Dark times ahead. Is stating the fact parents are incarcerated for misdemeanors occurs every damn day w/o their children being with them justifying it? oh wait, because they cross the border illegally they should be treated better than citizens incarcerated for misdemeanors. Gloom,despair and agony on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, twa said: Is stating the fact parents are incarcerated for misdemeanors occurs every damn day w/o their children being with them justifying it? Well yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Would you describe their situation better or worse than on the journey here? If being with the parent makes it better then them waiting their turn on the Mexico side should have been their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 What one did in 2016 is over and done with. What one can do in 2018 and 2020 to change that, is in one's hands. This isn't just Donald Trump. This is the entire GOP. This is the border patrol/immigration people who are taking the kids from their parents and putting them in interment camps. This is also all of the Trump voters. This is what they want. A white America and only a white America. We know the goal of Trump, the GOP and his voters. To make America White Again. It's not just stopping illegal immigration. It's not just limiting legal immigration. The goal is to stop legal immigration altogether. The goal is to get of the legal immigrants already here. Use whatever means/excuse to take away their legal status and deport them. Finally, the goal is to get rid of naturalized U.S. citizens. Find something to strip their citizenship from them and then deport them. The goal is to make America white and only white. Good thing we have an election I hope somehow video of this Human Rights crime somehow comes out. Just watched the audio on Rachel Maddow. There should be U.N. resolutions against the U.S. and sanctions against the U.S. The people responsible for this, tried for human rights crimes. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: The goal is to make America white and only white. You are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spjunkies Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, twa said: You are wrong. No he's not. It's been the agenda the entire time no matter how much BS you try to fabricate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, spjunkies said: No he's not. It's been the agenda the entire time no matter how much BS you try to fabricate. Watch out for the FEMA camps under the Walmarts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Is twa suggesting that Stephen Miller, the architect behind this new policy, isn't a far right white nationalist? Edited June 19, 2018 by The Evil Genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said: Is twa suggesting that Stephen Miller, the architect behind this new policy, isn't a far right white nationalist? Somehow he didn't limit himself to Miller but have fun with that straw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, twa said: You are wrong. I am right. The ultimate goal of Trump, the GOP and his voters is have a nation that's primarily white. they don't want immigrants here. This goes beyond illegal immigration and limiting legal immigration. They despise immigrants living here. Working here. They feel the immigrant is taking things from them and can't stand people who don't look like them. The Obama era made them seethe and then the finally got to express their true feelings under Trump. So, the GOP is now looking at legislation to stop Trump's practice with the kids. You really think they care about those kids? No. They know this is something that could cost them votes;so they will try to end the practice; when in reality they have no problem with it. I've seen some comments of my Trumpster friends and they love what Trump is doing. They have no qualms of what Trump is doing, is morally and humanely wrong. Their attitude is, they shouldn't have crossed the border. They have no right to be treated humanely. They are invaders. The next time storm devastates Trump areas, let them suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Edited June 19, 2018 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Those Christian values at work I see. I'm sure God is proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Edited June 19, 2018 by visionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I’ve been stuck in a glorious Caps filled haze for a week and half. But this am am a friend of mine had his green card revoked (Canadian). And it prompted a breakfast conversation about the separation of families issue. And one of my other friends made the statement that what is happening now is no different other than scale than what has happened since Clinton Is that true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said: I’ve been stuck in a glorious Caps filled haze for a week and half. But this am am a friend of mine had his green card revoked (Canadian). And it prompted a breakfast conversation about the separation of families issue. And one of my other friends made the statement that what is happening now is no different other than scale than what has happened since Clinton Is that true? No. Your friend is listening to right wing propaganda or only gets their news from Facebook memes. This was posted earlier. This policy change is a Trump thing. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/how-trumps-family-separation-policy-has-become-what-it-is-today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Rdskns2000 said: I've seen some comments of my Trumpster friends and they love what Trump is doing. They have no qualms of what Trump is doing, is morally and humanely wrong. Their attitude is, they shouldn't have crossed the border. They have no right to be treated humanely. They are invaders. This is exactly what I am seeing too. However, its on Facebook, only about 3 folks (out of hundreds of my friends) and those same three are the only one's who Like it or comment. Edited June 19, 2018 by Zguy28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 So it was happening under Obama? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said: So it was happening under Obama? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now