NickyJ Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 That would ruin the raw excitement of giving an unproven, twice-cut kicker his tryout in an actual game. I know. It's been boring since I haven't had to sit on pins and needles each time we kick a 30 yarder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jericho Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If you're worried about the timing, I might suggest it's due to Hopkins currently availability. He was singed to New Orleans' practice squad late last year (rare for kickers) and then re-signed a futures contract in the offseason. He basically didn't come available until cutdown day. Its not that the Redskins wanted anyone, but they were willing to take a chance on someone with a pedigree like Hopkins (elite college kicker, strong leg, former 6th round pick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Very curious move. I get most of the arguments against Kai, but I have to question the timing of this. It should also be pointed out that 2 of his 4 misses in 2013 were blocked, one of which was a 50+ yarder. One of his other misses came in week 1, when he was hurt (he ended up missing multiple games immediately thereafter, starting with week 2). Also I don't buy the "he isn't clutch" argument. He kicked the GW @DAL last year, kicked what was basically the icing FG @DAL in 2012, and the GW vs BAL in 2012, and all of these kicks were from 40+. I hope it works out, but I can't be anything but skeptical right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 If you're worried about the timing, I might suggest it's due to Hopkins currently availability. He was singed to New Orleans' practice squad late last year (rare for kickers) and then re-signed a futures contract in the offseason. He basically didn't come available until cutdown day. Its not that the Redskins wanted anyone, but they were willing to take a chance on someone with a pedigree like Hopkins (elite college kicker, strong leg, former 6th round pick) Hopkins was no more elite in college than was Kai, who won the Lou Groza award in 2009 and was generally considered the second best kicker in the 2011 draft behind Bailey. However, he was injured at the time of the draft and could not compete in training camp. Likewise, Hopkins was injured in 2013 and was released by the Bills (he was the third kicker picked in the 2013 draft). He wasn't picked up by the Saints until the last two games of the 2014 season. He may be better than Kai. Who knows. May be a lot worse, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Scot has final say on personnel. Unless it's a decision people disagree with. Then Gruden has final say. This is in his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passepartout Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Really the extra point rule needs to go. It is screwing up the game. No thanks to Roger G! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Scot has final say on personnel. Unless it's a decision people disagree with. Then Gruden has final say. This is in his contract. I wrestle with this to an extent, because I believe that a coach must have the power of the bench. I guess you can have the power of the bench without the power to cut, but they go kind of hand in hand. Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that Scott has and is wielding that power, but I want the decision to sit a player, demote a player, or even boot him from the roster to be in the HC's hands. I want the Scott to be the grocer and Jay to be the chef. The chef must use what the grocer buys, but has the right and duty to discard certain items. The grocer can't demand for instance that the chef put dark chocolate into his lobster bisque. However, the chef shouldn't be forced to make crab imperial if the grocer doesn't procure crab or if the crab is poor quality. (oversimplified) In other words, whether or not he has that power, I think Gruden should have the power to cut players, bench players, etc. In a perfect construct, Scott acquires them and then Jay gets to be picky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I wrestle with this to an extent, because I believe that a coach must have the power of the bench. I guess you can have the power of the bench without the power to cut, but they go kind of hand in hand. Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that Scott has and is wielding that power, but I want the decision to sit a player, demote a player, or even boot him from the roster to be in the HC's hands. I want the Scott to be the grocer and Jay to be the chef. The chef must use what the grocer buys, but has the right and duty to discard certain items. The grocer can't demand for instance that the chef put dark chocolate into his lobster bisque. However, the chef shouldn't be forced to make crab imperial if the grocer doesn't procure crab or if the crab is poor quality. (oversimplified) In other words, whether or not he has that power, I think Gruden should have the power to cut players, bench players, etc. In a perfect construct, Scott acquires them and then Jay gets to be picky. That's cool, glad you shared your perfect construct. But, fact remains, Scot has final say in personnel here. He could tell Jay sorry, not cutting Kai and I'm not adding another kicker. Which would force him to play him or look like the dumbest coach in history who benched his kicker without another one to do that job. But he didn't. He cut him. And added another kicker. Somehow that meant for some that Jay was looking for a scapegoat and just frustratingly cut the guy. Scot is no where to be found here in this whole episode concocted in their funny little minds, he's in his office just... well, let's not go there. There could be 100 different scenarios here as to how this happened, any of them more likely than this idiocy. Like, you know, Scot and Gruden are constantly discussing these things and are on the same page? No, no, that's crazy thinking. I will assume from now on if we cut anybody and add someone else who is successful, those same posters will be crediting Jay for it? Or is his personnel rights only relegated to kicker? Fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I guess what I'm saying is that Jay should be taking the lead on all cuts while Scott should be taking the lead on all signings. Sure, everyone should be on the same page. I have to imagine that when they needed to sign Bates off the practice squad, Scott didn't consult with Jay about who they would cut. McCloughan doesn't make that decision in a vacuum. He may do so when signing Blackmon. Here Jay, I bought some new groceries. Try out this cabbage. Again, to make room for him, I would think that Jay and Scott decided together the best course was to IR Ihenacho (bummed about his injury btw). Jay then gets the power of the bench. He can play Blackmon, sit him, make him inactive, or start him as he thinks best. So yes, it is a partnership. They are on the same page, but in every dance someone has to take the lead (even if they alternate when they do) and there must be occasional solos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 "Like, you know, Scot and Gruden are constantly discussing these things and are on the same page?" Sorry I was laughing because I was about to say the same thing . As weird as it might sound this cutting of Kai could have been a joint decision in the FO. I think the issue with Kai surfaced in the offseason . He was unusually inconsistent in the reports and sometimes with kickers, when they are trying something new they go through a slump. and the reality of the NFL is you can stand by them for a while but not to the point it is costing points and potentially games. For everyone talking about the 87% career accuracy that does not automatically translate into continued success going forward. As of the beginning of the 2015 season his season average is 50% on FGs. Kai was not able to fall back on his special teams KO contribution so it was time to move on - looking back this could be seen as a mistake but we are not a team who can have passengers at such a crucial position where every play has to be perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 So yes, it is a partnership. They are on the same page, but in every dance someone has to take the lead (even if they alternate when they do) and there must be occasional solos.Yes, yes, but the key to this dancing partnership is that when the decision is questionable on the surface, first thing we should all do is assume the solo act was Jay. Makes sense. Sorry, Bur, but I get the sense you're bending over backwards trying to find a way to remove Scot from cutting Kai to put it on Jay (hope I'm wrong). You literally have no idea how it's played out this entire offseason. Maybe Jay, from the start, wanted to improve kick offs and Scot agreed that should be a priority, so he brought in Ty Long to compete with Kai. When Ty lost, maybe Scot had his eye on Hopkins and told Jay let's give it a game and see how it goes, we can add him if Kai has any issues as he's got him ranked high and thought he looked better than Kai this preseason. Maybe that ranking includes everything Kai has done during TC as well, and they hated to see his struggles carry into the season? Could be lots of things. The power of the bench doesn't equate to the power of cutting like you're insinuating here. Scot has a lot of power in this regard written into his contract, so no matter how you slice it this is his ultimate decision. Cutting, keeping, adding, whatever. I have no doubt he's collaborating with Jay on this, and heavily so, but there's simply no way to know who's thinking what here and there's definitely no way Scot is taken out of the equation of cutting a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoDeep81 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Having no expertise in the matter, how the hell could the GM cut one of the players in week 1, w/o the coaches approval? That just makes zero sense in my opinion, and if so, there is no way they'll both (coach/gm) be here next year.. How could a coach gameplan every week if the GM was randomly taking players off his roster, w/o his consent? Just doesn't add up in the common sense realm.. Either they were both in on the decision, or Jay will be looking for work here shortly.. Just can't see any 3rd scenario.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long n Left Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Sorry, I just don't get the outrage with letting Kai go. Sure he was a curate from inside 40, but that is only part of the job. His kickoffs have been abysmal since he's been in the league, and if the Skins needed a 55 yard kick to win, then they were SOL. Some posters have given his kickoff stats against the Dolphins, but without any context, and that context is probably a main reason that he's gone. All 3 kicks were line drives that got no more than 15 feet or so off the ground. The first kick was probably as far as he can kick, and was still returned outside the 20, because it was so low that the coverage unit couldn't get close enough to tackle the returner before he gained nearly 30 yards. Second kick was a touchback, but was pulled so far left that it came dangerously close to going out of bounds, but luckily scooted inside the pylon. Third kick was similarly pulled low and left, but returner must have shaded that way, and got a return. After watching other games last weekend where kickers are routinely pounding kickoffs high and deep into, or out of, the endzone, it becomes obvious how much of a liability Kai is. FO saw a guy that was on their radar available, and made a move. They feel that they improved their team overall, end of story. To all the negative Nancy's that are almost hoping the new guy misses so that you can be proven "right" in your assessment against the coaches and FO, I say: I hope the guy nails a 55-yarder to win it. Something I doubt you'd ever see from Kai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 I don't think Kai getting released was just about a missed kick. They drafted Zack Hocker the year before and then brought in Ty Long this year to complete with Kai. I think they looked at him as a temporary kicker until they could find what they wanted. He didn't have a good training camp according to reports. I really think the Redskins are looking for a "more complete" kicker. While Kai's kickoffs have gotten better, his inability to be consistent in that area and not having a good enough leg for kicks over 50 is what ultimately did him in. I did notice his kickoffs have gotten better, the problem with them is two-fold. He rarely kicks the ball out of the endzone on the "fly." It's usually a ball that rolls in the corner and goes out. When he does reach the endzone, it's usually a line drive kick that doesn't give our coverage units time to get down there. Plus the coaches rarely giving him an opportunity to kick anything over 50 yards on FGs shows they don't have faith in his leg. I don't think it's that they don't think he has the let (I've seen him kick it over 50 yards), but maybe the consistency. I did like his consistency on FGs under 50, but I've said all along, trading 3's for 7's is not the way to go. I'm not so sure why everyone is so up in arms over this. We probably won't make the playoffs, so why not let Scot tinker with the roster this year. We really have nothing to lose looking at players for future years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Having no expertise in the matter, how the hell could the GM cut one of the players in week 1, w/o the coaches approval? That just makes zero sense in my opinion, and if so, there is no way they'll both (coach/gm) be here next year.. How could a coach gameplan every week if the GM was randomly taking players off his roster, w/o his consent? Just doesn't add up in the common sense realm.. Either they were both in on the decision, or Jay will be looking for work here shortly.. Just can't see any 3rd scenario.. Who, or what, are you responding to here? Has anyone even speculated such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Everyone's outrage over a kicker with below average leg strength being cut from a team that has won 7 games over the past 33 games is comical. Ya'll need to get over it because our field goal kicker is not going to make or break this team in the short or long term. Deep kickoffs for touchbacks will absolutely help. Why is everyone so attached to Kai? Every other team has a stud that can kick a 50+ yarder as part of their normal kicking range and can kick touchbacks with regularity. Those teams are getting 3 points while we're punting. People are acting like we just let go of Adam Vinatieri. We talkin bout KICKERS! the actual problem is punt coverage, and this move does nothing towards that end. furthermore, if strategic genius jay gruden simply wants a kicker with a stronger leg, why on earth do it after week one, rather than training camp or in the pre-season? it's weak. Most of the same guys play kickoff team and punt coverage. If kickoff coverage is eliminated, then in theory, the punt cover team should have more energy to expend. Obviously our special teams aren't the most talented bunch, but having a kicker booting touchbacks will improve our Defensive starting position and help out our special teams guys. his accuracy is so good because we didn't put him out there for long field goals. This. But after his 17-17 start, he's been below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Kai leaves as the most accurate kicker in team history. He is being replaced by a guy who has never kicked in an NFL game and went 3 for 5 in preseason. Color me skeptical. Hope I'm wrong. Every long tenured kicker on every team is likely that teams most accurate kicker,. Its a different NFL nowadays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I get the impression he is going to follow in the steps of Novak, Suisham, and Gano. All of whom were on rosters through this preseason and Gano is still starting for Carolina. He's definitely the guy we should not have cut back in 2012 of any kicker we've had since Lohmiller. We have an uncanny ability to make kickers good after we cut them. We cut our most accurate kicker who has been clutch in a few games during his time here. I am with the side questioning this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 Let's see how patient other teams are,with his lack of kickoff depth, before comparing him to the fleet of ex-skins kickers we get to see every week. The modern NFL does not want kick returns, so I doubt teams commit as much practice time to it, as in previous decades. Any deficiencies will be quickly seen with a guy that was 30th, 30th, and 29th in touchbacks the past 3 years. Suddenly, his new coverage team better be on their game. instead of one guy doing his job, 11 will have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brokenstriker Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I get the impression he is going to follow in the steps of Novak, Suisham, and Gano. All of whom were on rosters through this preseason and Gano is still starting for Carolina. He's definitely the guy we should not have cut back in 2012 of any kicker we've had since Lohmiller. We have an uncanny ability to make kickers good after we cut them. We cut our most accurate kicker who has been clutch in a few games during his time here. I am with the side questioning this. outdoor stadium famously bad turf Obviously there are kickers who come in here and have good games ... but kicking at FedEx for 8 games a season had got to add up to a challenge for kickers (many of Kai's touchbacks come in domed stadium and on artifical turf) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVSkinsfan Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 This new guy better bring his A game b/c I thought Kai done a good job for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 outdoor stadium famously bad turf Obviously there are kickers who come in here and have good games ... but kicking at FedEx for 8 games a season had got to add up to a challenge for kickers (many of Kai's touchbacks come in domed stadium and on artifical turf) You say this, but it feels like opposing kickers never miss against the 'skins. You'd think that if the footing/field mattered than the guy with more experience on it would handle it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 Seeing McManus of the Broncos effortlessly nail 3 50+ yarders this season already made me realize just how much we've been missing there. Really hope Hopkins pans out because that really will change a lot for us. Being able to start attempting 50+ yarders and actually hitting on them, only to turn around and kick it out of the end zone and force an offense to drive 80 yards can do wonders for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Multiple touchbacks. A couple into the stands. 3 for 3 on XP and a 46 yarder good from 52. Good game Hopkins. Their KO team was useless. It was apparent we were trying to stay away from Austin on punts, but it worked out. That's what we needed from our kicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Thank goodness for all that immediate (and I'll be nice and leave out a couple other adjectives) spazzing and Jay hating (btw, check and see if those paramedics got to mi amigo Randy Holt yet ) over cutting kai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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