2014 Official All 22 Coaches Film Thread - Nothing But All 22 Questions and Observations

[skinfan2k]

Put him on the bench if he starts the game out like he did last week. Seriously it's not even fair to the entire team if one guy is playing that badly. He had an average game against the Vikings, and missed a lot of open guys,  but at least he made some plays. Last week? Nothing.

 

You play him because you have to find out what you have for the future.  The QB is the most important position on the team and you saw what he did in 2012.  This team is awful.  This year no longer matters.  Fans still care about the present instead of the future with this team.  I bet if you asked 100 fans, if the redskins did a full rebuild and did it correctly but it took 4 years, most would not want to wait. 

[ZRagone]

 

Are you implying McCoy had good film in that game?  Cause he didn't.

 

He made some good, timely throws, though and got the ball out better as the game went on though.

 

Thank you. The mysticism surrounding McCoy and that Cowboys game in the past two weeks has been infuriating.

The Cowboys were one of the worst pass rushing defenses in the league. Everyone was playing extremely amped up, as evidenced by it being the only game this year other than Jacksonville where all three phases actually excelled. His recievers were reportedly yelling at him at half time with "fires" needing to be put out due to inaccurate balls. Like the rest of our QBs, he threw an ugly pick that game. And by the end, WITH overtime, we still didn't get over 21 points.

 

He definitely settled into things better in the second half. And his ball security the second half was paramount given the way this team has turned the ball over all year long. He managed the game well, had some excellent and laudable escapes in the pocket to extend plays, and in the end had a good game for us where he did his job. That is amazingly commendable. 

 

But there's no reason, at all, to think that Colt was going to be that guy the next week or two games after, just as we've not seen the defense be the same guys the next week or two games after. I think we as fans love beating the Cowboys, especially in that situation, so much that it just implants burgundy colored glasses onto the lot of us in terms of how we view that situation. Our defense rolled over what was viewed as one of the best offenses in the league at that time, and the next week threw up a stinker against one of the worst. Yet we're supposed to think that Colt McCoy was automatically going to be impervious to a similar drop off going from a mid range defense that was one of the worst in the league sacking the QB to playing against one of the top defenses in the league that had been feasting on sacks?

 

I just don't really buy it. Is it possible? Yep. But I just think too many fans have been acting as if it's a forgone, definitive, absolute conclussion that had we started Colt in either of the past two games that we would've won.

[Jumbo]

Dumb post. Read the defense, if you can. Two guys in zone coverage, that LB could have made a pick there. Why take the risk there for a couple yards. Typical example of people somehow trying to put the blame on him. He made the right decision. He also could have gone to D-Jax on that screen (for no gain really). Instead he did what he did and if that chump of a tight end could have avoided showing off the worst hands in the history of any sport where hands are being used to catch a ball, then it would have been the typical great play by a QB who keeps plays alive and makes plays others can't. Instead, he gets blamed. Talk about nonsense.

 

 

Nuwanda---your analysis isn't definitive either, so watch the "dumb post" shots. Given your last couple posts, ya might wanna keep an eye on your slams. 

 

No one should reply to this post in the thread. 

[ZRagone]

 

I think that part of the problem is that Griffin is feeling pressure, at times, before it's there.  That could be a function of having a turnstile at LG and RG. But there are times when the pocket is clean, and he just senses pressure, and bails before he needs to.  

 

There are also times when he gets sacked in under 2 seconds, and it's not on him at all.  

 

Agree. Cooley noticed this too and noted how he looked somewhat nervous back there, flinching and hesitating. More so than at any other time Cooley's watched him.

 

It reminds me of Carr down in Texas. Or hell, Campbell and Ramsey here.

 

It seems there's that moment a flip switches and a QB just suddenly begins to feel pressure way before it's there due to being shell shocked. And it seems so ridiculous hard to get them out of that mentality once it actually gets there.

 

You're right, pressure came QUICK a number of times this past week. The O-Line did not have a good game for the most part. But there were times where I think, despite the quick pressure, Griffin could've gotten a check down off or even scrambled away successfully if he had remained calm and dealt with it. Instead, he seemed to start feeling it even quicker then when it came, causing him to hesitate before he needed to, which meant by the time he was reacting the defender was there.

[skinny21]

I love the premise of this thread. Tough to have a discussion about multiple plays w/o quoting pics though... I particularly like the breakdowns that seem to show objectivity by limiting the posters opinions.

On the 1st Int, yes the wr is wide open in the flat, but it seems risky to me to try to fit that ball by the pass rusher.

On the sack he eats instead of hitting Andre or Helu, is the Bucs player peeling off the line to cover Helu or is he running a stunt? Couldn't tell on the still.

Regardless, it seems that Griffin is not doing a good job reading the D. Not sure if this comes down to lack of watching film, inexperience/lack of comfort in the scheme, rust or a matter of having too much on his plate (pressure to perform, lack of trust in his protection, choosing to run or throw, etc.).

I do still have hope that better blocking, more experience, more attention to detail (reading D, footwork, etc.) - all fixable things - could help Griffin be the QB we all want him to be. But things are not looking good (on and off the field) for Griffin.

I told my wife that I'm done wearing jerseys on game day until the team stops being an utter embarrassment.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Just FYI, Matt Bowen will be on the Fan around 11 to breakdown the tape on Robert.

[DC9]

But there's no reason, at all, to think that Colt was going to be that guy the next week or two games after, just as we've not seen the defense be the same guys the next week or two games after. I think we as fans love beating the Cowboys, especially in that situation, so much that it just implants burgundy colored glasses onto the lot of us in terms of how we view that situation. Our defense rolled over what was viewed as one of the best offenses in the league at that time, and the next week threw up a stinker against one of the worst. Yet we're supposed to think that Colt McCoy was automatically going to be impervious to a similar drop off going from a mid range defense that was one of the worst in the league sacking the QB to playing against one of the top defenses in the league that had been feasting on sacks?

 

I just don't really buy it. Is it possible? Yep. But I just think too many fans have been acting as if it's a forgone, definitive, absolute conclussion that had we started Colt in either of the past two games that we would've won.

 

I would've started him against the Vikings if we didn't have to audition Griffin.  But he's certainly not a guy you build a team around.

 

I definitely want him back as a competent back-up QB though. 

[GoDeep81]

 What i am seeing more and more is a habit of breaking the pocket really early and not letting routes play out.

 

 

I'd imagine that comes from having 2 bum legs and feeling your about to have your lights put out? IMO, he doesn't trust his protection or himself at this point, which makes things like reading d's his second/third priority.. Which leads to what were seeing too much of..

 

(Sorry this isn't in the spirit of the thread, just an observation)

[KDawg]

I think we need two threads. One to discuss Griffin and one to discuss everyone else. I have no interest in talking about Griffin in every thread on the forum.

[DC9]

Agree. Cooley noticed this too and noted how he looked somewhat nervous back there, flinching and hesitating. More so than at any other time Cooley's watched him.

 

It reminds me of Carr down in Texas. Or hell, Campbell and Ramsey here.

 

It seems there's that moment a flip switches and a QB just suddenly begins to feel pressure way before it's there due to being shell shocked. And it seems so ridiculous hard to get them out of that mentality once it actually gets there.

 

 

Andrew Luck and Aaron Rodgers are annually the most hit/sacked QBs in the NFL.

 

What the problem is with Griffin is he is not trusting the play or he is over thinking the play.  It starts with identification of the defense; then you make checks; then you go into your drop and continue to read while dropping.  At the top of the drop you should be ready to throw and the ball needs to come out.  If you take a crow hop or two that should be fine, shame on the o-line if your sacked right away (which I counted that happened once on Sunday).  But throw it away if it's not there.

 

Pass rushers get frustrated and get lazy if they can't get to you, as well.  Throwing the ball away might earn you a free 15, but it will also piss off the pass rusher (see our defense for example).

 

So basically, to me, he's not "shell shocked" like a lot of you think he is.  He's struggling learning the pro way of doing stuff. 

 

He's going from backfield action and reads based on mesh points to reads based on alignment. 

 

He's going from pulling the ball out and popping it to the read to doing 3, 5, 7 step drops and route depth.

 

His fundamentals are terrible, which doesn't help at all in that sense because that's something else that needs to be worked on or that he needs to think about.  It's not "natural" to him.  And it's very difficult to improve that stuff at this stage, as like I said, you kind of are what you are at this point.

 

That's why I think if ANYTHING he can be more dangerous running pure RO plays or running boots, cause there's less footwork involved there and you are reading half the field (and levels of the field most of the time).  But eventually you have to expand on that and in year three we look no where close to where we should be.

[RG3Hunna]

 

Here's Compton getting tossed around like a 5th grader.

 

RGIII is feeling the pass rush, he started feeling it last year and hasn't been the same since. We need to invest HEAVILY in the offensive line so he can actually pass from the pocket since he doesn't make extremely quick decisions like kirk cousins. 

[Skins Wingman]

yeah, I don't think that there's any question this was the worst game of his career. It was bad everywhere.

 

I think the most alarming thing is how much Griffin has regressed. There are things that you now have to correct that he was doing well before. That's a problem.

To me, the biggest issue looks like Griffin has completely lost all of his confidence in everything. He's "seeing ghosts." He's not decisive with the ball. He's waiting for guys to come open instead of throwing them open. The timing of his drops is not synced with the timing of the routes. Every play that we've seen in this thread, those are common themes.

 

I have a couple theories of what happened against Tampa:

1. Griffin just had a bad game. Happens to everybody. Woke up on the wrong side of the bed, had a headache, his wife yelled at him, who the hell knows. Just had a bad day at the office, and it's not indicative of how he'll play next week.

2. He's still rusty. The time off hurt him and his timing, and the bye week hurt him, because he missed another week of practice. The team doesn't practice during the bye, as outlined by the CBA. So, he hasn't had a lot of consistent practice, and he's rusty.

3. He's completely lost confidence in everything he's doing, and has no idea how to pull himself out of it.

4. He's just not that good. 2012 was a mirage that the Shanahan's were able to create with smoke and mirrors, and amazing athletic ability. Minus that, he's just not that good overall. He's done some good things here and there, but nothing over the past 2 years to be considered even a top 1/3 QB in the league.

5. There is so much tension in the locker room that he's completely lost the team.

 

One thing that Cooley said yesterday is that if he's Jay Gruden, he has no idea what to call, because even the things that were working, and that Griffin was good at, he wasn't able to execute. So, when you digress to the point where your strengths are no longer strengths, it puts the coaches in quite the pickle.

I don't know how big Gruden's playbook is, or if it's overly complex. It didn't seem that way. Honestly, it seemed like the game plan was pretty simple. Shrug.

But on Sunday, Griffin couldn't hit the simple stuff. He couldn't find guys who were open, then when he did find them, he wasn't always accurate. Those 2 throws to DJax should have been 14 points. But he just botched the throws. Plain and simple.

I honestly don't know how you get the guy his confidence back. He doesn't seem to have his heart into running the R/O, when he has P/A, he seems to hesitate instead of letting it rip, on drop-backs, all of his mechanics are off. I dunno. You're quickly running out of options of what TO do.

 

this post scares the hell out of me.  all valid points, and makes me wonder if rg3 is our guy.

 

one thing that ive always said about rg3 though, is i think he is scared to throw INT's.  you have to throw balls into tight windows and sometimes you have to throw at somebody who's covered.  just because someone is covered, thats not a guarantee the ball will be INT or even incomplete. all this indecisiveness and clutching the ball is him being scared to make a bad pass.  he needs rex grossman's attitude.  rex had all the confidence and no arm, and rg3 has the arm and no confidence.

[gortiz]

I love the premise of this thread. Tough to have a discussion about multiple plays w/o quoting pics though... I particularly like the breakdowns that seem to show objectivity by limiting the posters opinions.

On the 1st Int, yes the wr is wide open in the flat, but it seems risky to me to try to fit that ball by the pass rusher.

On the sack he eats instead of hitting Andre or Helu, is the Bucs player peeling off the line to cover Helu or is he running a stunt? Couldn't tell on the still.

Regardless, it seems that Griffin is not doing a good job reading the D. Not sure if this comes down to lack of watching film, inexperience/lack of comfort in the scheme, rust or a matter of having too much on his plate (pressure to perform, lack of trust in his protection, choosing to run or throw, etc.).

I do still have hope that better blocking, more experience, more attention to detail (reading D, footwork, etc.) - all fixable things - could help Griffin be the QB we all want him to be. But things are not looking good (on and off the field) for Griffin.

I told my wife that I'm done wearing jerseys on game day until the team stops being an utter embarrassment.

 

Yeah I agree ... it would be cool if we could somehow automatically thumbnail a pic that is in post we want to quote. 

 

Once I saw the GIF of that first INT and not the still, I realized trying to hit Reed would be risky, but a lot of folks are saying, the flats should have been his natural progression, but again, a rusher was coming hot, so we can't nit pick. 

 

To answer your question, running a stunt. But by the time Helu hits open field its way too late to find him.  Griffin is swallowed. However, if Andre was his first read, he could have hit him if he threw at the end of this drop back, there appeared to be time - if he throws right when his back foot hits. 

 

[FXMASTER]

2nd qtr tape on mccoy was much better I will agree. I was implying that what you see in the dallas game tape is a guy w 1 week of practice w/ the first team in arguably one of the HIGHEST pressure situations you will find all season. Was there a lot of highlight real material. No. But asside from the pick in the end zone, he hit 80% the big play RAC didnt happen because of timing. The agravation is in comparing the 2 performances and their results

[gortiz]

I think we need two threads. One to discuss Griffin and one to discuss everyone else. I have no interest in talking about Griffin in every thread on the forum.

 I agree ... 

 

What was Clark doing here? The 3rd and 13, where Evans picks up 34  yards.  

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/384806-official-all-22-coaches-film-thread-nothing-but-all-22-questions-and-observations/?p=10032646

[cahones01]

I think we need two threads. One to discuss Griffin and one to discuss everyone else. I have no interest in talking about Griffin in every thread on the forum.

 

Let's just move on from him and focus on other positions. I'm going to start breaking down Morgan Moses play. 

[DC9]

2nd qtr tape on mccoy was much better I will agree. I was implying that what you see in the dallas game tape is a guy w 1 week of practice w/ the first team in arguably one of the HIGHEST pressure situations you will find all season. Was there a lot of highlight real material. No. But asside from the pick in the end zone, he hit 80% the big play RAC didnt happen because of timing. The agravation is in comparing the 2 performances and their results

 

Go pull some up and post your opinion.  I'll be happy to discuss.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

No need for another thread...the people that have access to the all 22 do your thing. IDC who the tape is on...just about everyone sucks at this point so i would like to see something on everyone...But yes i would def like an evaluation of Moses...i didn't hear much of his name called once he went in the game...granted i only watched till the end of the 3rd Q.

[BG]

This is good stuff guys. Thanks for posting

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Maybe someone can do the study on this, but what stands out to me is that when Robert moves - and he often moves entirely too early - he often fails to get his body in position to actually do anything. He is either drifting backwards or running directly towards the sideline.

 

Roethlisberger is a silly comparison because he is 400 pounds and is impervious to pain, but when he starts moving the ball is in a position to come out with proper technique. Rogers on the move is like a film you would should on how to keep your mechanics while rolling out. Wilson tends to look to run more than he should, but he's in a good running position. RGIII seems to have the ball to on his hip and his feet going in a different direction than his head half the time and everything becomes a mess.

 

It's difficult to imagine how a QB could be in a worse position to throw the ball on that first interception.

 

A dude that athletic should be devastating out of the pocket.

[Voice_of_Reason]

It's not really all-22, but Cooley's breakdown, play by play, was pretty insightful.  

 

On the first play of the game, which we've been discussing here, he said clearly that Reed was open, and Griffin needed to throw that ball.  IF Griffin thought he couldn't get the ball to Reed, the second read had to be DJax on the bubble, because the reason the primary would be covered would leave the bubble screen open.  Instead he pumped twice, escaped to his left, and all hell broke loose.

 

He also said that every time Griffin moves to his left, he completely loses sight of the field.  What's interesting about that is one of griffin's best plays of 2012, a 4th down conversion at the end of the Giants game to Paulsen, he moved to his left, kept his head up, set and threw a beautiful pass.  But he's apparently forgotten how to do that.

[darrelgreenie]

I think the most alarming thing is how much Griffin has regressed. There are things that you now have to correct that he was doing well before. That's a problem.

Thankfully, for me at least, I don't think he's regressed. That implies a systemic problem beyond 1 game. I think it was a one game aberration of suck. Because if he has regressed then surely we have to agree that part of the failure is on the coaches, because once again either you're coaching it or allowing it to happen.

To me, the biggest issue looks like Griffin has completely lost all of his confidence in everything. He's "seeing ghosts." He's not decisive with the ball. He's waiting for guys to come open instead of throwing them open. The timing of his drops is not synced with the timing of the routes. Every play that we've seen in this thread, those are common themes.

Can't speak to his confidence/seeing ghost. I agree he's not decisive and his drops were wonky which again for me is a function of preparation, comfort and knowledge.

 

And I love the line that you're either coaching it or allowing it to happen. But sometimes when you coach it, and it doesn't happen, it's because the guy you're coaching can't do it, for whatever reason. In that case, the way that you don't allow it to happen is to find another guy to do it.

Sure, there are times when you coach it right and the player doesn't execute and if that is the case then you absolutely find another player IF you have another player of that caliber available. BUT before you change the player you better be damn sure that there is nothing you can do to coach that concept better. Because IF the other player can't get it done either then you start to look like you can't coach. 

 

One thing that Cooley said yesterday is that if he's Jay Gruden, he has no idea what to call, because even the things that were working, and that Griffin was good at, he wasn't able to execute. So, when you digress to the point where your strengths are no longer strengths, it puts the coaches in quite the pickle.

I listened, Cooley was referring to the second half of that game and I agree if the gameplan is shot because your QB isn't playing well then there aren't a lot of good choices. The answer is to never be in that position again. Where the QB and the gameplan aren't working.

 

I don't know how big Gruden's playbook is, or if it's overly complex. It didn't seem that way. Honestly, it seemed like the game plan was pretty simple. Shrug.

Its not a matter complexity or simplicity in my book its a matter of comfort and understanding.

 

But on Sunday, Griffin couldn't hit the simple stuff. He couldn't find guys who were open, then when he did find them, he wasn't always accurate. Those 2 throws to DJax should have been 14 points. But he just botched the throws. Plain and simple.

There is a lot I Griffin screwed up in the Bucs game, but I'm not gonna bang on the kid for just missing on a couple a bombs ~35+ bombs, because by their very nature those are low percentage plays and on the whole Griffin has been accurate throwing bombs this year by my memory he's ~5 for 7 (Jax 1 (called inc), Vikes 4 (2 dropped), Buc 0 (2 over throws).

 

I honestly don't know how you get the guy his confidence back. He doesn't seem to have his heart into running the R/O, when he has P/A, he seems to hesitate instead of letting it rip, on drop-backs, all of his mechanics are off. I dunno. You're quickly running out of options of what TO do.

For me the Bucs game /Griffin's issues in general don't stem from a lack of confidence. I think gauging his heart in R/O is futile.

For me its a matter of him being married to the gameplan where he understands it cold/backwards and forwards and can therefore be natural and comfortable in his execution. Every play that's called there is no doubt from him or the coaching staff that he knows exactly what they want and is gonna get it done.

[FXMASTER]

I not skilled enough to post links to plays and such. dont care to. Everyone watched the game. Everyone agree's he did what he needed to in the Dallas game. What would his stats for the game have been if he came out as comfortable in the first 1/2 as he did in the second.

Say you add another td and  fg on offense for the first 1/2 of that game, and with the same defensive performance the score goes to 27-17 and dallas never has a lead. How epic would that have been. 

 

I guess the aggravation I was refering to is after that win we get to see 2 loses and a big part of it was the ineficiency of the QB.

 

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

 

For me the Bucs game /Griffin's issues in general don't stem from a lack of confidence. I think gauging his heart in R/O is futile.

For me its a matter of him being married to the gameplan where he understands it cold/backwards and forwards and can therefore can be natural and comfortable in his execution. Every play that's called there is no doubt from him or the coaching staff that he knows exactly what they want and is gonna get it done.

I know you like to bang on game plans. Based on what Cooley said, and what I saw, the game plan in this game was nowhere near the problem.  

 

he even said that he could almost see when they threw out their game plan and went to "day 1 of training camp" stuff.  He also said that he thought that Gruden and McVay were probably sitting in an office on Tuesday looking at themselves trying to figure out what the heck they could put in for the installation on Wednesday, because nothing worked.

 

He said that there were things that would make a HS coach mad that were missed.

 

Look, I know that you have a lot of faith in Griffin, and you like to be objective, and you don't want to bang on the guy for one lousy game.  I get that. But I don't think you're being objective anymore.  

 

The simple fact of the matter is that he could do nothing well at all, in any way shape or form, last Sunday, and it had nothing to do with the play calling, scheme or game plan.  Gruden put him into a position to succeed by giving him easy things to do, and he blew it.

 

There's a point you get to where you just can't blame coaching anymore.  That game, offensively, was on Griffin.  Pure and simple.  All of the folks who watch film have said it, Cooley has said it, everybody knows it.  Hell, Cooley said he couldn't even grade the other players on the offense because the QB play was so bad.  Which is something he's never done before. 

 

I'm hoping that he plays well against San Fran.  We'll see.

[darrelgreenie]

I know you like to bang on game plans. Based on what Cooley said, and what I saw, the game plan in this game was nowhere near the problem.

I've been a coach and an instructor, its my nature to look past the students to the teachers. If my job is to teach and my students don't get it I don't blame them I figure out how to reach them.

I'm not saying the game plan was the problem in the sense that the plays didn't work.

By and large all plays work on paper.

I'm saying the Griffin's poor execution didn't happen in vacuum.

Griffin's lack of comfort with the opening script didn't just randomly happen.  

Preparation is part of coaching.

If the players aren't prepared well they don't execute well.

Why do you think the coaches went back to "day 1 training camp stuff"? Because they know that Griffin knows that stuff.

Jay has been saying this since his post game presser, that he didn't have the team prepared.

Its obviously true but no one has really talked about it.

Griffin sucked but lets not pretend that Griffin sucked in a vacuum and the coaches did everything perfect to get him ready to go.

If a player regresses while I'm coaching them I am at least partially at fault.

If I install a play in practice and don't rep it much but I get the feeling that the QB/team understands the play concept and I call that play and they don't execute that's partially my fault.

Sure they should be able to execute a play we installed but I need to have a better temperature of what they can/can't execute at a high level.

 

Look, I know that you have a lot of faith in Griffin, and you like to be objective, and you don't want to bang on the guy for one lousy game.  I get that. But I don't think you're being objective anymore....

The simple fact of the matter is that he could do nothing well at all, in any way shape or form, last Sunday, and it had nothing to do with the play calling, scheme or game plan.  Gruden put him into a position to succeed by giving him easy things to do, and he blew it.

 I broke down some of the same plays before Cooley did and said basically the same thing, so I have been critical of Griffin's Bucs game, he sucked I've said that from get go. So lets give the 'not being objective' bit a rest.

 

Execution and playcalling go hand in hand; that is a fact. And I understand that you don't understand the dynamic but I'm not going say you aren't being objective because we don't agree. Playcalling, scheme and gameplan AND preparation ALWAYS have an effect on execution. IF they don't then why the heck do we need coaches? Playbooks have been around for years any rube can call plays off the sheet.

 

 

"..We have to continue to coach our offense up. Find out what we can do and what we can't do. Try to improve on somethings we struggled with...We had some things that seemed simple to the coaches that we had breakdowns with uh but obviously there are reasons we are we have to coach them up better and make sure the players understand what they are supposed to be doing because there are way too many mental breakdowns..."

 

"We gotta coach them up, and um find out what's holding them back. And continue to have them do the things that he does well, find out what those are and let him dominate that part of the game and continue to work on the things he's having trouble with"

-Jay