Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[TD_washingtonredskins]

So much of pro sports is about whats between the ears and some guys just don't have the mental toughness to make it. Its early in his career and Kirk could prove me wrong (I hope he does even if its not as a Redskin - he seems like a good guy) but I just don't think he has the mental edge to be a good starting NFL QB.

 

I appreciate a thought-out reply that doesn't devolve into calling me a Kirk homer or something. So thank you!

 

As for your primary point about Cousins just not having what it takes with mental toughness, it's just as likely as my theory that he just needs to learn to protect the ball better. The thing is, I think 9 starts and 14 total games is too early to make that determination. I have to concede though, just like I made the point about Griffin a few weeks ago, if Gruden has assessed Cousins and decided that he's not the guy, obviously that is worth 1,000 times more than my dumb theory on a message board. 

 

It just seems that interceptions are a common early struggle for many QBs who turn out to be good. If we (as a franchise) are willing to give other QBs an extended look (measured in years) to learn how to play the position, why not him? Maybe it's just circumstance. You can't reasonably develop two young guys for 3-4 years by giving both a full suite of reps. I would just be disappointed to see him show his flashes and experience his growing pains here, then go somewhere else and develop into the answer the position for the next decade. 

[lovemaskins]

Intelligent statistics that take into account INTs, TDs, etc have been posted here. Those stats punished INTs more than they rewarded TDs.

As with everything else, when these stats put Cousins above RG3 they were ignored by Griffin supporters who kept saying "yeah, the TDs were nice but the interceptions with Cousins killed us," ignoring the fact that these very stats, compiled by experts much smarter about football than you or me, HAD TAKEN THAT VERY THING INTO ACCOUNT.

No they aren't .  Can we please stop with the "Expert A is sooo much smarter than us" or "coach so-and-so forgot more football than we know" argument.  They are not and no they didn't.  Football isn't that complicated bro.  You can win multiple ways in football, but playing ball control offense, not making mistakes and solid defense and special teams wins in the NFL.  Marty Shottenheimer proved that.  What I haven't seen win is the int prone QB.  THINK TONY romoSUCKS!!!  Maybe he's the one exception if he can win a championship this year, but I doubt it. 

 

Interceptions are bad, so is not scoring TDs.  There's always a freaking metric for something.  We use metrics everyday, but you know what metrics don't tell us????   COMMON SENSE!!!  Common sense says Kirk throwing away the ball ala the GIANTS GAME is a telling sign he's not a NFL caliber signal caller, and right now common sense says RG3 not scanning the field properly in his THIRD YEAR is a telling sign he's not either, despite his decent game Sunday.   

 

Ye they might develop, but chances are they won't.  We've all seen this story before, it's not the first time we've seen a QB bust around here. 

 

And I don't need JAWS or Kurt Warner or Jon Gruden or Stephen A. Smith or John Clayton to tell me that. 

[Wyvern]

Cousins performance was impacted by the fact he was trying to make the Skins offense move the chains, in spite of the fact the O-line was in terrible shape and being owned whenever they were playing against good, and very agressive defensive front sevens. There was no running game possible around the "strong side" combo of Chester, the one-legged Polumbus, and Reed. So Cousins had to throw the ball a lot.

Couple that poor O-line with the very poor pass protection of Helu and Reed -- defensive pass rushers were getting to Cousins before he could even finish his drop back. Passing lanes were been clogged with defensive players, and even short passes downfield were risky.

Since he was trying to keep the starter job in Gruden's tough-coaching environment, Cousins solution wasn't to immediately checkdown to the safety outlet -- he tried to get the ball into the receivers downfield. It was high-risk / high-reward. And Cousin paid for any slight inaccuaracy with an INT. (But in a way, 3-&-out is sort of a turnover too.)

I don't think Cousins is scarred psychologically from this. But he was getting into some bad habits, due to the poor pass protection. Also I firmly believe that Gruden always felt that McCoy should be the present QB, and Griffin the future QB -- which doesn't leave room for Cousins.

Unless it's a completely open competition for QB in 2015 -- I think Cousins agent should be asking the Skins FO to trade him to another team (Arizona?) where he'll get a chance to hone his skills and fulfill his potential as an NFL QB.

[lovemaskins]

 I hope Gruden and co. make the smart move and keep both Cousins and Griffin.

 Bothy of their futures depend on what is done with the o-line, and both have proven they can win games, despite what some others say. When the line is fixed, we will see what we have in both, and both coming into training camp ready to battle for the starter spot, and the best man starts, period.

Sorry bro, but Cousins has proved anything.  He won one game against the Browns TWO YEARS AGO!  Robert HAS proved he can win evidenced by a NFC East Championship TWO YEARS AGO and that he can get hurt. 

 

But yeah, I'm all for a competition, and I was all in last year to fix the Oline year.  Thought we should have signed Penn and drafted Bitonio and put that to bed, but our front office drafted another linebacker, man we're stupid. 

 

Don't mean to sound harsh, I'm just getting tired of the dumb back and forth arguments between fellow skin fans about average to below average QBs just to win a argument.  We should all be in agreement that our team as well as all of our QBs

[skins/psu1981]

Sorry bro, but Cousins has proved anything.  He won one game against the Browns TWO YEARS AGO!  Robert HAS proved he can win evidenced by a NFC East Championship TWO YEARS AGO and that he can get hurt. 

 

But yeah, I'm all for a competition, and I was all in last year to fix the Oline year.  Thought we should have signed Penn and drafted Bitonio and put that to bed, but our front office drafted another linebacker, man we're stupid. 

 

Don't mean to sound harsh, I'm just getting tired of the dumb back and forth arguments between fellow skin fans about average to below average QBs just to win a argument.  We should all be in agreement that our team as well as all of our QBs

If you want to be technical Cousins won the Tennessee game just like Griffin won the Jax game. Last 11 starts for RG3. 2-9. Last 10 for KC 2-8. I guess you have to apply the same suckage to Robert.

[Fergasun]

Football Outsiders advanced stats have Griffin as the 16th best QB this week. I think that may be his best rank in 2 years.

Luck was ranked 31 vs. Dallas this week.

Regarding Cousins -- he is the odd man out, I think Arizona or Tampa might be good spots for him to land in.. or somewhere that doesnt have Winston or Mariotta.

[skins island connection]

Sorry bro, but Cousins has proved anything.  He won one game against the Browns TWO YEARS AGO!  Robert HAS proved he can win evidenced by a NFC East Championship TWO YEARS AGO and that he can get hurt. 

a division championship which would not have happened if Cousins didn't step in and lead the comeback.

 

But yeah, I'm all for a competition, and I was all in last year to fix the Oline year.  Thought we should have signed Penn and drafted Bitonio and put that to bed, but our front office drafted another linebacker, man we're stupid. 

Right. this is the thing that will answer alot of questions on both QBs. But will it be a fair assessment? I'm not sold on that being a reality.

 

Don't mean to sound harsh, I'm just getting tired of the dumb back and forth arguments between fellow skin fans about average to below average QBs just to win a argument.  We should all be in agreement that our team as well as all of our QBs

 

 Well, thats kinda not true. Cousins has proven he can play, just as Griffin, and as McCoy.

 In my eyes, a la Jacksonville, if there are 2 different QBs playing in the game, and both put up points/lead down to a FG or TD, then they both should get credit for the win. If only 1 scores points, then its not an accurate statement to say that both won, because only 1 of them scored points.

 

I know I know, " it doesn't work that way", but it is reality. Its not a fault of Griffin getting hurt in the game early, but if the same scenario happened, and Jacksonville had stomped a mudhole in our asses, the talk of 'both QBs lost the game' would not be a popular claim; 100% of blame would have been put on Cousins; you know it and I know it.

 

Of course, only us having a difference in POV, we both have valid points/concerns.

[Alexa]

Sorry bro, but Cousins has proved anything.  He won one game against the Browns TWO YEARS AGO!  Robert HAS proved he can win evidenced by a NFC East Championship TWO YEARS AGO and that he can get hurt. 

 

But yeah, I'm all for a competition, and I was all in last year to fix the Oline year.  Thought we should have signed Penn and drafted Bitonio and put that to bed, but our front office drafted another linebacker, man we're stupid. 

 

Don't mean to sound harsh, I'm just getting tired of the dumb back and forth arguments between fellow skin fans about average to below average QBs just to win a argument.  We should all be in agreement that our team as well as all of our QBs

So Griffin won the NFC all by himself? He lined up 11 against 1? LOL. The game that won the division he threw for like 100 yards. I think Alfred Morris and the defense sure as hell helped out too.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Football Outsiders advanced stats have Griffin as the 16th best QB this week. I think that may be his best rank in 2 years.

Luck was ranked 31 vs. Dallas this week.

Regarding Cousins -- he is the odd man out, I think Arizona or Tampa might be good spots for him to land in.. or somewhere that doesnt have Winston or Mariotta.

Cousins better not go to Arizona and muck up things for my boy Logan Thomas. He's gonna be leading that team next season

[Gamebreaker]

I'm sure Cousins can't wait to leave DC after being deactivated. I believe he's a better QB than he showed in that losing streak, it's just not going to work out here with Gruden. Jay isn't going to be fired this season, and IMHO, Kirk doesn't have the mental fortitude to deal with Gruden's player bashing to the media when things don't work out. 

 

I wish him the best, and hope he can land in a good situation where he has a legit chance to compete as the starter. Maybe the Browns.

[skins/psu1981]

I'm sure Cousins can't wait to leave DC after being deactivated. I believe he's a better QB than he showed in that losing streak, it's just not going to work out here with Gruden. Jay isn't going to be fired this season, and IMHO, Kirk doesn't have the mental fortitude to deal with Gruden's player bashing to the media when things don't work out. 

 

I wish him the best, and hope he can land in a good situation where he has a legit chance to compete as the starter. Maybe the Browns.

I just don't know why we would trade him at this point. I am pretty sure that he will be competing for the starting QB position next offseason. No way they are just going to give the job to RG3 with out competing for it.

[Gamebreaker]

I just don't know why we would trade him at this point. I am pretty sure that he will be competing for the starting QB position next offseason. No way they are just going to give the job to RG3 with out competing for it.

 

I could see it being between Griffin, McCoy, and possibly a FA. Cousins may have a better arm than Colt, but he's not a better decision-maker and Colt doesn't fall for disguised coverages nearly as often. 

[steve09ru]

No thanks, you're obviously a Kirk homer so there's no point in a discussion.  If you read my previous post which I assume you didn't, you'd know my position.  So again, cheers to the return of Rex Grossman.

Typical response from someone that doesn't have any info. to back up the so called 'facts'

[lovemaskins]

Typical response from someone that doesn't have any info. to back up the so called 'facts'

Typical response from someone who doesn't actually read the thread but reads the last page and doesn't have a clue what going on. 

[Rskins06]

I'm sure Cousins can't wait to leave DC after being deactivated. I believe he's a better QB than he showed in that losing streak, it's just not going to work out here with Gruden. Jay isn't going to be fired this season, and IMHO, Kirk doesn't have the mental fortitude to deal with Gruden's player bashing to the media when things don't work out. 

 

I wish him the best, and hope he can land in a good situation where he has a legit chance to compete as the starter. Maybe the Browns.

I disagree with you. I don't think he goes anywhere. If he is truly given the chance to compete for the starting job, I think he wins it. I think Jay will have the ability to chose the QB HE wants to start, not the one DS or BA want to start. We will see though.

[lovemaskins]

So Griffin won the NFC all by himself? He lined up 11 against 1? LOL. The game that won the division he threw for like 100 yards. I think Alfred Morris and the defense sure as hell helped out too.

 

Then by your assessment everyone should get off Robert's back and let him continue to develop then right?  Cause obviously the whole team sucks and it can't be Robert's fault???  RIGHT????

 

Can't have it both ways.  Can't say he sucks when the team sucks or he's good when the team is good.  You either pick a side, albeit moronic or have a little common sense, which is where I'm at.

 

The team sucks, the offensive line sucks, the coaching has sucked, the defense definitely sucks, and ALL of the QBs suck.  But a lot of people in this forum have an axe to grind so their as crazy as people who pick a political side.   Your a moron if your a democrat!!! Your a moron if your a republican!!!!  The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

That's why this country is so screwed up now.  No common sense.

 

[Larry]

What I haven't seen win is the int prone QB. 

The current holder of the NFL record for career interceptions is . . . .?

[skins/psu1981]

I disagree with you. I don't think he goes anywhere. If he is truly given the chance to compete for the starting job, I think he wins it. I think Jay will have the ability to chose the QB HE wants to start, not the one DS or BA want to start. We will see though.

Which is why I'm 99% certain that Gruden will come back next year. I think he had to prove to the front office what we really have on talent on both sides of the board, but especially with the QB position. This is a project. No doubt about it. I think Gruden is going to be allowed to choose his QB this year. I really do feel that the FO has finally given him the authority to choose his QB going on forward. Authority for personnel changes in the coaching staff? God, I hope so. Haslett needs to get out of here with a quickness

[lovemaskins]

The current holder of the NFL record for career interceptions is . . . .?

 

Your joking comparing Kirk Cousins self destruction to the Brett Favre?  Please say your not seriously going there?  You lose all credibility as a football fan and supposed educated and knowledgeable football fan to go Brett Favre, and imply he was a interception prone QB the way we've seen Cousins self destruct.

 

Your not serious are you?

[KFC]

Does everyone here remember when Shanahan said he would "stake his reputation on John Beck?" Can someone please please please start a poll thread where posters must "stake their repution" on which of our 3 QBs will have a better career in the NFL?

I think this could be really good. There could be more than 3 options for instance "McCoy will have a Todd Collins like career, which will still be better than the others" or "RG3 will have a short career but what he accomplishes will be better than either of the others."

My feeling is that in only a few years the results for whichever QB will be beyond question.

It would be a great opportunity for people to put it on the line, knowing that they may win Chrystal ball glory, or be mocked for years to come.

Someone man up and start it!

[steve09ru]

Typical response from someone who doesn't actually read the thread but reads the last page and doesn't have a clue what going on. 

actually I have read through the thread and have contributed throughout it whereas all I see from you is opinionated statements that you believe to be fact.  All I'm asking, and others have as well, is for you to provide some info. to back up your case to which you haven't and will continue to ignore with childish 'you can't be serious' , 'homer' , etc. remarks over and over again.

[KFC]

Lol I didn't know I was able to start threads so early. Hope it doesn't get me banned...I don't see why it would though, but I am a new poster (long time lurker) so I guess anything is possible.

[Skinsinparadise]

In retrospect he was never impressive as a passer. We know this because now that he has lost his speed, we see the real RG3. So his speed was masking his actual QB play, allowing easy passes to be completed. That may be impressive to you, but not to me.

 

 

His speed seems more than fine to me.  If you weren't impressed than you are in the minority.  Shanny himself said if he plays like 2012 in the future he's headed to the hall of fame.  

[profusion]

I see no reason why the Redskins have to make any moves at QB this offseason. Why not just bring all three guys back next year? RG3 and Cousins are under contract, and McCoy will be a cheap re-sign. There are so many other holes on this dumpster fire of a team that need to be fixed, and that's where the attention needs to go.

 

I don't believe any of the three of them can properly be evaluated based on this season; it was a new system this year for all of them, and the OL was so bad that they all struggled.

[lovemaskins]

actually I have read through the thread and have contributed throughout it whereas all I see from you is opinionated statements that you believe to be fact.  All I'm asking, and others have as well, is for you to provide some info. to back up your case to which you haven't and will continue to ignore with childish 'you can't be serious' , 'homer' , etc. remarks over and over again.

Back up what???  There's nothing to back up.  Sounds like you just don't like what I'm saying so I should "back it up."  Like I said you apparently didn't read what I wrote and still haven't or you'd know my stance.  Therefore there's nothing to talk about and no offense but i'm not going to waste anymore time talking to you about whatever it is your talking about, cause I have no clue.

 

Make a point to something I have said or talk to someone else.