shuler74 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 If you parent your kid correctly from the get go, there should be no need to ever hit a child... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 If you parent your kid correctly from the get go, there should be no need to ever hit a child...ideally, but we must consider that a child is not solely a product of nurture, but also nature. The possiblity that some kids may inherently require some sort of physical discipline should be given consideration and not outright ruled-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 It does speak to the parents. I'm in no way saying all kids need to be spanked or that spanking will cure all. But I can say with 100% certainty that the main discipline problem students at my school ( 11 of them ) could be cured with a good ass whooping. There is a lost generation of kids that have no parental involvement. Their parents had them when they were kids and they have been raised by their grandparents. They lack discipline they have not been told no. No one has held them accountable for their actions. Again, not saying spanking cures all. But someone needed to care enough to spank them. To be fair, none of that is an argument for spanking. It is an argument for parental involvement and discipline. ideally, but we must consider that a child is not solely a product of nurture, but also nature. The possiblity that some kids may inherently require some sort of physical discipline should be given consideration and not outright ruled-out. I don't outright rule it out, but I do note that the scientific studies pretty clearly show that spanking is more likely to lead to negative outcomes than to positive outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 To be fair, none of that is an argument for spanking. It is an argument for parental involvement and discipline. I don't outright rule it out, but I do note that the scientific studies pretty clearly show that spanking is more likely to lead to negative outcomes than to positive outcomes. Again, I have only spanked my son 1 time and have no intention of ever doing it again. But he knows I will. We've discussed. I didn't spank him in anger. I've told him what things would warrant a spanking and he understands. Lucky for me, I have a great kid, but, I'm involved. I'm the most loving father you could imagine. Being a single parent, I have to play the father and mother role. I have to be firm but also affectionate. I just hate hearing that you should never spank a child and that it's always child abuse. That's bs. I don't think spanking should be the first option. But it should be on the table if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I don't pay attention to who anybody is so I may be confusing you with another poster, but don't you teach in an "economically disadvantaged" area? (That, by the way, is political correctness. Not all the other nonsense that people call political correctness). I say that because that probably has a lot to do with what you are seeing. I'm sure if you were teaching in inner city New York or DC or Newark when crack hit in the 80s, you probably thought that the world was ending and the students were going to bring about the downfall of America. And that was 30 years ago. Those schools are likely still troubled but the kids are likely better behaved on average. My mom complained a lot her last ten years of teaching about how bad the students were. Her last ten years in education also coincided with the total economic collapse of my hometown which led to all the local housing stock becoming HUD housing. In ten years, she went from teaching in a fairly homogenous middle class school to a lower class school filled with students who had moved to our town because of cheap housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I don't pay attention to who anybody is so I may be confusing you with another poster, but don't you teach in an "economically disadvantaged" area? (That, by the way, is political correctness. Not all the other nonsense that people call political correctness). I say that because that probably has a lot to do with what you are seeing. I'm sure if you were teaching in inner city New York or DC or Newark when crack hit in the 80s, you probably thought that the world was ending and the students were going to bring about the downfall of America. And that was 30 years ago. Those schools are likely still troubled but the kids are likely better behaved on average. My mom complained a lot her last ten years of teaching about how bad the students were. Her last ten years in education also coincided with the total economic collapse of my hometown which led to all the local housing stock becoming HUD housing. In ten years, she went from teaching in a fairly homogenous middle class school to a lower class school filled with students who had moved to our town because of cheap housing. Yes. I do and I speak from my personal experiences knowing it's not the same in other places. You can't compare one place with another in a cases. I realize that. I get that we will always complain about "kids today". When I was in school, at the same school I teach at now, it was different on a large level. We didn't have confrontations with teachers. There may have been 1 fight the whole year. No one would disrespect a teacher to their face. My brother came along 6 years after me and was a classmate of Iverson. It wasn't quite the utopia that it was went I went but still nothing like today. Kids want discipline. I learned this through experience. I am extremely tough on the kids in terms of what behavior I expect. They test me at first and I don't back down. Over time, they end up hanging out in my class. Coming by to say hi. Other teachers hate them and ignore them. Let them put their heads down. I fight them and won't allow anything other than 100% compliance. It's a tough battle. In the end, many of them love having me as a teacher which I find bizarre. Their parents don't stand up to them. It's really sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 So stupid poor people need to learn to raise their kids like nice middle class folk? Ok. Also at what point in this discussion do we acknowledge that there is a world outside the US? Just how much of that world are we accusing of being lazy stupid parents. Is this just another example of the white western world looking down its nose at everyone else and thinking that its latest thinking is vastly superior to any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 My dad is 70. I'm 40. He spanked me maybe twice in my whole life. But his own father beat the hell out of him for punishments. My dad has always rationalized it as "He neve hit me just to hit me. It was always because I had done something. And I was a pretty bad kid." But it took me until I was maybe 30 to realize that my father - who is a successful happy man with 40-some years of marriage under his belt - still has hangups that stem from the fact that his father would get pissed off and beat him with a shoe on occasion. I've asked the question, "Do you think grandpa would be arrested today for ____________," knowing that the answer is clearly yes. And my dad will go through this whole process where he admits, "Well, maybe the one time he hit me with a belt everytime I took a step on the way home from ______. That would probably involve the police today." Here is something I always come back to. Every dog trainer in the I've dealth with has emphasized that hitting a dog only makes the dog less trainable. Yet, we think that smacking a child works. I'm sure you paraphrased his rationalization (maybe not) but I think it's pretty accurate. But do you see the victim making excuses for the abuser? There's something about identifying one's self as a "bad kid", even into adulthood is eye opening. Children push boundaries because they are learning about the world. They want to learn how far they can go before authority figures push back. They want to learn what is safe. It's not that they are "bad", they are children. Now why do some kids not push boundaries and others do? It's probably innate. Why do some of us resign ourselves to cubicle jobs for 40 hours a week and a few start big ballsy businesses? So stupid poor people need to learn to raise their kids like nice middle class folk? Ok. Also at what point in this discussion do we acknowledge that there is a world outside the US? Just how much of that world are we accusing of being lazy stupid parents. Is this just another example of the white western world looking down its nose at everyone else and thinking that its latest thinking is vastly superior to any other way. Probably, but it's the difference between being civilized and not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 So stupid poor people need to learn to raise their kids like nice middle class folk? Ok. Also at what point in this discussion do we acknowledge that there is a world outside the US? Just how much of that world are we accusing of being lazy stupid parents. Is this just another example of the white western world looking down its nose at everyone else and thinking that its latest thinking is vastly superior to any other way. Parts of the world also treat children and women like cattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Again, I have only spanked my son 1 time and have no intention of ever doing it again. But he knows I will. We've discussed. I didn't spank him in anger. I've told him what things would warrant a spanking and he understands. Lucky for me, I have a great kid, but, I'm involved. I'm the most loving father you could imagine. Being a single parent, I have to play the father and mother role. I have to be firm but also affectionate. I just hate hearing that you should never spank a child and that it's always child abuse. That's bs. I don't think spanking should be the first option. But it should be on the table if needed. I didn't say it was "always child abuse." I said it was unfortunate choice made by well-intentioned people doing their best to parent in the way that their parents taught them. So stupid poor people need to learn to raise their kids like nice middle class folk? Ok. Also at what point in this discussion do we acknowledge that there is a world outside the US? Just how much of that world are we accusing of being lazy stupid parents. Is this just another example of the white western world looking down its nose at everyone else and thinking that its latest thinking is vastly superior to any other way. Warning.... Devil's Advocate and total exaggeration for effect incoming.... How is this argument any different than the one that could be made to defend the practice of female circumcision? After all, it is traditional. Why should the white western world get to look down on other cultures and tell them what to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Probably, but it's the difference between being civilized and not. Brilliantly worded for irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Predicto, I wasn't addressing you. My bad. Our local sports talk guy has been ranting for the past few days. I wish his dad would spank him ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Warning.... Devil's Advocate and total exaggeration for effect incoming.... How is this argument any different than the one that could be made to defend the practice of female circumcision? After all, it is traditional. Why should the white western world get to look down on other cultures and tell them what to do? We aren't really talking about a single tradition here though are we? One that expressly exists to damage and control women. We are talking about the way the entire world, and all of it's people, raised essentially every person that ever lived up until a few generations ago. All of those broken damaged people somehow dragged us to this point. The point in which the white western world started moving toward a more friendly relationship with their children. I'm also playing devil's advocate here as well by the way, I don't believe in beating children. The phrase "beating children" kind of makes my stomach turn to be perfectly honest. The reason I bring it up is that we are all victim to seeing everything through our own cultural lense. Much of the world sees white western families as terrible weak or non existant. They see Americans, for example, as seeing their own parents as a burden and rushing to place them in homes. The kids here have a very negative relationship with thier parents much of their lives, which people here think is entirely normal. It's not that way everywhere, which is frankly hard to believe if you've ever met a teenager. Just how often does the average american visit his or her parents after they've moved out a year? I bet the answer would horrify much of the world. I know, for instance, my hispanic family back home read about American parents calling the police on their own children and see it as the downfall as society. It's unthinkable and yet here, no one even raises an eyebrow. The point I'm making is "are white western family structures ideal?" because that's what we are saying, at least partly, when we dictate to every other culture that our way of raising children is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Ding ding ding Reportedly he beat his kid with a switch. To a lot of black kids, that's nothing new or crazy lol To a lot of white kids in my generation too. Had to go out and pick your own some times. That really sucked. Almost as much as dad's belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I never got the switch. Got the hairbrush I would have preferred a switch I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Hairbrushes sucked. So did wooden spoons. Switches really sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Having never been beaten, I'm fairly ignorant to these matters. What side of the hairbrush do you hit with? The flat plastic side or the bristles? And while I am from West Virginia, my upbringing was far from Southern so I do not understand the "switch" thing at all. There has to be some kind of anthropological connection to slavery with that, right? Either that or some kind of Scotch-Irish connection to press gangs. I heard Marcellus Wiley on the LeBatard Show yesterday and he was talking about how his grandmother used a horse whip on him a few times. Seriously....what the **** is that about? The South seems to have some incredibly elaborate rituals built around injuring children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.A.C.O.L.B. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I never got the switch. Got the hairbrush I would have preferred a switch I think Hairbrush could get brutal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It definitely wasn't the bristle side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I was thinking one of those ones with the plastic bristles. I could see that getting unpleasant in a hurry. I was actually swinging a brush in my bathroom (not a euphemism for masturbation but should be). It seems awkward. There has to be a better tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 My uncle was beaten with a fire poker once. Grandma was a little crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I have all kinds of thoughts on this subject. I could write very long posts about all kinds of things that have been discussed. I have thought about spanking my daughter. I have imagined what it would be like to physically discipline my students as was acceptable in the past. Every time I come to the conclusion that it would be an expression not of impartial discipline or reasoned consequences but of my own failure to bend this person's will to my own, and my frustration with that failure. Part of that conclusion comes from calm thinking after the fact, and part of that conclusion stems from the way I feel when that option enters my head. For me spanking is always a heat-of-the-moment response. The feelings I have when I think about spanking are all of the, "I can't deal with this," "You are really getting on my nerves," "The fact that you won't listen to me is making me angry" variety. Maybe for some of you it works differently, but I hope I never spank my daughter because for me, if I'm honest with myself, it will never come from a place of calm rationality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2014/09/16/advertisers-pull-out-as-peterson-prepares-to-return-to-the-field/?hpt=ac_mid Advertisers pull out as Peterson prepares to return to the field The Vikings are hoping to rebound from last week's tough loss against the Patriots with the help of star running back Adrian Peterson. He is set to return to the field this weekend, despite facing a felony child abuse charge. Some big advertisers are now jumping ship. Castrol Motor Oil says it is dropping its sponsorship of Peterson. Radisson pulled its advertising deal with the Vikings. One of the NFL's biggest sponsors Anheuser-Busch is still on board, but released a statement expressing its disappointment and increasing concern. Ed Lavandera has new information on a second allegation of child abuse by Peterson involving a different child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 My uncle was beaten with a fire poker once. Grandma was a little crazy He didn't assume she was trying to kill him? I think that's the assumption I'd leap right to if anyone, even mom, swung a fire poker at me. Maybe I've seen too many horror movies. Being that we are sharing our war stories about growing up under the tyranny of parents willing to hit us, I'll volunteer my rather dull information. I got slapped, moms shoe (both thrown with deadly accuracy and used as a blunt object), and the dreaded hair yanking that is done so quickly that no one notices it's happened except the victim. That last one is done in public and is intended to let you know that you've embarassed mom and that continuing to do so will lead to dire consequences. I swear there must be some sort of training involved because my mom was never quick or terribly coordinated unless I did something to anger her. I was never bruised or injured in anyway. I think I may have been bonked on the head with a wooden spoon once or twice but I can't really remember it. All of my injuries as a child came as a result my own misadventures made possible by the freedom children no longer enjoy. Totally worth it. My dad never really hit me until we got into a rather insane drywall destroying shoving match when I was a teenager after I decided the old man couldn't tell me ****. I was wrong, he clearly had plenty more to say, and I greatly underestimated what is known as "old man strength". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grhqofb5 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Ok, so since we're all presumably adults here (and since 14 year old kids know how to use google), many of us with young children, for some perspective I've linked what are (purportedly) the pictures of Adrian Peterson's son taken by police subsequent to the incident. Probably NSFW. Keep in mind that these were taken 4 days after the incident. http://dailysnark.com/pictures-adrian-petersons-sons-beating-wounds-emerge/ I have no trouble with a firm spanking with the hand if the circumstances call for it. But in my opinion you cannot do this to a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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