Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 As far as the cops, when I said that folks can't be mad for being looked at a certain way, that applied to me as well LOL. I drove a crown victoria police package, all white and 5% limo tint windows, and loud obnoxious exhaust pipes. As my mom called it, "typical DC drug dealer's car." LOL. I asked for it by driving a thug car, so I can't be mad at cops pulling me over. Even though I had a military ID and am always polite with cops, about 50% of the time they've been total dicks to me. Oh well. Now that I"m older, don't drive like an asshole, and drive a camry instead of a tinted out crown vic, i no longer get pulled over LOL. There's some wisdom there. I've mentioned before that my wife and I adopted a black sibling group a few years ago. And the general message we are giving them is "Don't give anyone an excuse." (We aren't being explicit with that - yet. But that's the general lesson). Because that is my biggest fear with them. My son is going to be a tall, good looking, really dark skinned black guy as an adult. And if he stays on the path that he is on, he is going to like fancy, preppy clothes and pretty Hispanic girls. So, I don't think that he is going to look like a thug. And I honestly don't think all police officers are looking to harm young black men. But all it takes is that one cop having the bad day who sees the young black kid in the expensive looking clothes in the wrong neighborhood for stuff to go really really really bad. I think 95 percent of my fears would be the same whether my kids look like me or didn't look like me. But that 5 percent is a real **** to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Yeah, I get nervous around a pack of teenagers wearing hoodies on a metro train and I get nervous in a diner when a bunch of motorcycle gang members walk in, no matter what their skin color. I don't think it has anything to do with me being a racist. I think when it comes to safety, you look at your personal experiences and what you see on the news and you make your decisions based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shakinaiken Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Of course racism exists. I'm just saying I believe it's slowly going away. Donald Sterling is an 80+year old man. Of course he's racist. He lived in a different era. Not justifying it, he's still a dumbass in that he still has a 50-60's era mentality, but I did not grow up biased to believe that black people are inferior. There are stereotypes for blacks and whites that I don't like, but ultimately, I judge on an individual level. I'm not so sure. racsim is derivative of the concept of ethnocentrism, the notion that an individuals particular culture/norms are superiors to others. as someone alluded to above, human beings are programmed to favor their specific in-groups while treating out-groups with trepidation and unease. Our society operates with limited resources, and we must "compete" with others to acquire said resources. i think this system creates personal perceptions of worth and status. I'm ashamed to admit that numerous times i've felt more intelligent than another person, more athletic than another person, and far more qualified for a particular job than another person( I''ve also felt the inverse- inferior to others) I do my best to impede these perceptions from manifesting through my actions, and i try to treat everybody with respect and kindness, regardless of how many educational degrees they've earned. Generally, race has little to do with this concept, but sometimes it does, indirectly. I often feel guilty when those moments occur, but i internally question "why should i"? in group superiority is not difficult to locate in life. Just look at this message board- or any sports message board for that reason. How many posts are made demeaning and belittling Eagles fans? how many sweeping statements are made in reference to Dallas fans? For me, most of those derogatory comments are made in a tongue-in-cheek manner: I don't actually think every Dallas fan is a bandwagon-er, nor do i think every Eagle fan inhabits brutish and idiotic temperaments- its attributed more to the culture of fanhood banter than actual opinions. But i wonder how many redskins fan on this board treat it the same way. If anything, public displays of racism,ethnocentrism,bigotry and discrimination are diminishing and instead people are concealing their prejudice internally or relegating them to their "closet." people that many of us would classify as racist are cognizant of the fact that society finds outward displays of racism intolerable- 50 years ago, it was slightly different. And honestly, I'm unsure of whether thats inherently "bad." If a Latino owner of a restaurant serves me and treats me kindly with respect and dignity, but then at night and goes home cursing me and my "white entitlement" or calls me a classic spoiled brat that only survives because my parents are affluent, should I care? Im inclined to say no. He's entitled to his opinions, and as long as he treated me with respect, I don't care what his "real" opinions of me are, because frankly i'll never be privy to them. But who knows. these questions rarely have easy answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 But we carry ourselves like normal adults... This is my basic strategy. I'm big on "passing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 My general feeling is that our country is on the right track, but it's frustratingly slow. However, I think that's the reality of culture change. You just have to keep your foot on the gas over time to stamp out whatever society's ills may be. That's easy for me, as a white man, to say as a matter of fact. I do think it's true regardless. However, I do think that not enough of us take a look in the mirror and/or are able to have this conversation honestly. This thread seems like it's above the standards of our media driven conversation on race. So Mark Cuban says a black man in a hoody causes him to cross the street. I think that was a lazy way of him articulating his ingrained prejudices. However, I think under more examination, it's enlightening. What if we talked about many other scenarios? 1. What if the black man in a hoody was walking at MD College Park after a basketball game on a cold night in January? Is Cuban scared? 2. What if it was a white man in a bad part of town on a warm night? I bet he'd be scared. 3. What if there was other context, like a recent spate of crime in a neighborhood? That's the context of the Zimmerman case. Notwithstanding the fact that Zimmerman looks like a total, indefensible loon, that's the context where a lot of people came to his defense. They're saying it was very rational to be prejudiced given the hoody, time of day and context of recent crime in that area. (Note that I don't recall if that context include black youths committing the crime, and I really don't want to start any conversation that in any way seems pro-Zimmerman. I'm using it as an illustrative example). How rational are prejudices, what are the causes and what can we do about it? As the OP highlights, I've heard for years that haircuts, clothes and tattoos are reflections of who you are. If you go to court, you get a nice hair cut, wear a suit and talk respectfully to the judge. Should that lesson just go out the window? Is it fair to expect me to ignore everything I've ever learned just because it (genuinely) isn't fair to today's kids who are just doing what the rest of the crowd is doing? Do I need to change? Do modern kids need to change? Does our movie, TV and music industry have a significant role in perceptions? Do we need leaders who gain credibility because they genuinely understand both sides of the issue and can discuss them openly and teach all sides what is rational, right, wrong, and how to avoid the avoidable negative perceptions? Bill Cosby comes to mind. In the end, I don't think Mark Cuban is a racist. I think he's reflecting very rational prejudices and it would be nice if thoughtful people like many in this thread join the discussion. I also want to add that the prejudices Mark Cuban mentioned aren't the only ones out there. There are many prejudices by blacks against whites. As a white man, I don't like that, but I also think it's important to look inside myself to understand the causes of those prejudices. Some are historic, some are current, some are avoidable and others are way out of my control. But I do have to ask myself, what can I do to fall outside of that prejudicial stance most of the time? I think there are many answers to that question, but I think it's a question that most of us should be asking of ourselves. And, as we do, I think we'll continue to accelerate the process of bringing people together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Carter said he's had people knock on his door and ask if he was the owner. Mike Greenburg said that has never happened to him. The implication is that because Carter is black, there is an automatic assumption that he isn't or may not be the owner. I'm white, I have that happen all the time. Just yesterday, an alarm salesman knocks on the door, I answer and am asked if I'm the owner. I wasn't offended. It never occurred that I should be offended. They have to know if they are talking to the home owner in order to sell them something. http://thebiglead.com/2014/05/21/mark-cuban-ill-cross-street-if-i-see-a-black-kid-in-a-hoodie-or-white-guy-with-a-shaved-head-and-tattoos/ I think CC's point was not that somebody knocked on his door. But rather that he had police knocking on his door asking if he was the owner, because he was black. They said the same thing about another reporter who was mowing his lawn in a predominantly white neighborhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 I heard the interview and honestly, I didn't really hear much in it that I would think is all that controversial. Here is the link to the interview. Judge for yourself. http://espn.go.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/10968237/mark-cuban-dallas-mavericks-discusses-own-prejudices-how-handles-them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Is "because he was black" the only reason the police could have for asking if he owned the house? In Carter's mind it seems to be. Instantly assuming a victim's perspective .. who is this on? Cris Carter.. football superstar from the time he was small.. Consensus All American at Ohio state, where players are treated as gods... I wonder,, does he even register all of the things that he's had handed to him as a result of this ability? Has he any concept of how many times people looked the other way because of who he was and what he could do? Or does he, as a grown man now want to look back and continually see himself as a victim because a cop asked him if he owned the house he was in? (this has also happened to me... a neighbor called and complained once about another house on the street, I guess the cop wanted some more info , so he knocked on my door and asked if I lived in the house of which held the door i just answered. No big deal at all. A routine question.) the worst thing that ever happened to him was being cut by a football team because of his cocaine and alcohol abuse. No arrests.. no legal problems. How many of us, black or white, could say the same thing given the same drug abuse issues? if you had these issues and were not a star football player, where would your life be? You think the same support network he had and continues to have would be there for you? I really can't stand Cris Carter. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundyrush Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 http://m.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/04/i-was-racially-profiled-in-my-own-driveway/360615/ "A police officer from West Hartford had pulled up across the street, exited his vehicle, and begun walking in my direction. I noted the strangeness of his being in Hartford—an entirely separate town with its own police force—so I thought he needed help. He approached me with purpose, and then, without any introduction or explanation he asked, “So, you trying to make a few extra bucks, shoveling people’s driveways around here?” All of my homeowner confidence suddenly seemed like an illusion." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Damn I wear hoodies all the time when it's cold. **** sometimes when it's nice out lol. Plus I'm tatted. But I'm white. So what does that mean about me? Lol. You we run from (not just switch sides of the street). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Very well thought out posts in this thread. You guys surprise me sometimes. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 22, 2014 Author Share Posted May 22, 2014 Very well thought out posts in this thread. You guys surprise me sometimes. Thank you. Totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Very well thought out posts in this thread. You guys surprise me sometimes. Thank you. Yeah. You're welcome. A lot of the time I get tired of being the only one, though, so this is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted May 22, 2014 Share Posted May 22, 2014 Racism is the new media darling. It's good for ratings and profit. Not new but yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I go to a predominantly white university. Got stopped by a cop back while waiting outside my friends house. I was wearing a hooded jean jacket. Needless to say, I try not wear hoodies at night anymore. But I'll be honest, there are a **** ton of robberies around Drexel ( which is in located) and if I see a sketch dude walking my way at night , my guard is definitely up As a black guy, I don't really have a issue with what he said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8181 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 We're all talking anecdotal evidence anyway, but one thing to keep in mind is most of us are used to the DC area which is much more liberal and progressive than other parts of the country. I live outside of the DC area and travel a lot for my job, and it was initially shocking to see how much racism still exists. I have met plenty of YOUNG white Americans talk about black people in derogatory ways, right down to the use of the N word. In fact, the most shocking part is they don't realize they're racist by the fact they tell me "My mom is racist, because she hates blacks" but they don't realize they're also the same by the things they say about how black people are lazy, scary, freeloaders, ugly gorillas, etc. In the event there is a black person of obvious wealth, the comments are, "He's probably either a drug dealer, a rapper, or a professional athlete." Just because they don't technically HATE them, they don't think they are racist. Also, in the DC area, while I don't really experience much white-black issues, I do see a lot of hating on Hispanics. I know plenty of white and Asians complaining about how Mexicans are moving in next door so they're considering moving to a different neighborhood. One last story, one time I lost my wallet and had to catch a flight. I did not realize this until I went to check my baggage. The attendant said it was OK. When I went to the security checkpoint, they took me straight to the front of the line, pretty much just asked me my name, why I was traveling, hand-checked my bags, and let me through a LOT easier than I expected. In fact, I got through the checkpoint in half the time it would have taken me if I had waited in line with my ID. I have to wonder if the same would have been possible if I was "brown". Again, all anecdotal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 8181, I think from your first story, those people are more ignorant than racist and likely heard those types of things from their "racist" family, and thought nothing of it to express themselves that way. Edit: As to the third part...my wife left her ID at home once when we were travelling. As long as it is not international travel, they will let you go through and perhaps give you a better security check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 ^^^ definitely a difference between ignorance and racism My best friend is HS was white and his family would say things at times that made me cringe even though they were always good to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 As far as the cops, when I said that folks can't be mad for being looked at a certain way, that applied to me as well LOL. I drove a crown victoria police package, all white and 5% limo tint windows, and loud obnoxious exhaust pipes. As my mom called it, "typical DC drug dealer's car." LOL. I asked for it by driving a thug car, so I can't be mad at cops pulling me over. Even though I had a military ID and am always polite with cops, about 50% of the time they've been total dicks to me. Oh well. Now that I"m older, don't drive like an asshole, and drive a camry instead of a tinted out crown vic, i no longer get pulled over LOL. I drive a Crown Vic. I ain't got my windows smacked (tinted), yet I still haven't gotten pulled over yet. Race is so weird, it's like that one thing that isn't a big deal, until somebody makes it a big deal. I can chill with white people all day everyday, and we could care less about it. But all it takes is one person to say something race related and it can engulf to something huge. It isn't going to go anywhere though. People are going to always judge somebody by something. It's sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Stephen A Smith just gave his take on ESPN2 to people calling him an Uncle Tom for having no issues with what Cuban said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Stephen A Smith just gave his take on ESPN2 to people calling him an Uncle Tom for having no issues with what Cuban said. Not surprised at all. People just don't like to look beyond the surface anymore. It's a headline world. They take what they can see and run with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Good for SAS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 I drive a Crown Vic. I ain't got my windows smacked (tinted), yet I still haven't gotten pulled over yet. It's only right that a city dweller drive a Vic. souf-wess, baby. and thanks for hipping me to the latest slang for window tints. "Smacked," i like that. While in the military i got a bunch of slang from my country ass friend from Alabama, he'd say the windows are "spooky." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Typically, racism is more about fear IMO. It's natural to be afraid of things. The key is to control your fear and allow rational thought to rule your judgement. In some cases, that might be to control your and in others, it might be to take caution to try and avoid certain situations. I don't think everything is by definition, an evil thing. What Cuban was describing, poorly some may say, is his fears. I'm no big fan of Cuban but I don't believe he is racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 It's only right that a city dweller drive a Vic. souf-wess, baby. and thanks for hipping me to the latest slang for window tints. "Smacked," i like that. While in the military i got a bunch of slang from my country ass friend from Alabama, he'd say the windows are "spooky." I'm stealing that one lol But honestsly, that is one reason I won't get my windows titnted. I have enjoyed not getting pulled over. Even though when I had my Grand Marquis, I got pulled over a ton, and my windows weren't even spooky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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