Race conversation on Mike and Mike (with Chris Carter) over Mark Cuban comments

[Chew]

 

And it's weird because it sucks that I have to get profiled because of that but in a weird way, I get it...

 

 

True stuff there, man.  Not to be a broken record, but as I said yesterday, stereotypes exist for a reason.  even for our own people, if I see a black dude walking fast with a hoody at night, i'm gonna be watching him like a hawk.  It's a fact of life.  The fact remains that people who often commit armed robbery and assault are "black males in a hoody."  truth hurts sometimes, and unfortunately us "good blacks" get caught up in the judgement.  And as you said, I get it.  I really do.

 

If Mark Cuban and I were chilling on a corner in southeast and a "black male in a hoody" was walking towards us, I'd cross the street right along with Cuban LOL. 

 

I hate that we live in a world where the color of your skin and how you're dressed automatically determines who you are (to some people anyway), but it is what it is...

[Zguy28]

Wasn't worded well, but I understand Cuban's point.

He was saying that everyone, regardless if it's subconscious or outward, exhibits some form of prejudice due to human nature.

Due to human nature and image association coupled with fear of the unknown. TV has burned these associations into the collective consciousness, everywhere from news, to drama shows like Law & Order, or movies.For some its real life. Myself for instance, I had an experience with a group of black men in DC one day when I went to a job site to install HVAC in SE. We get out of the truck and there were about 6 men at the corner nearby and they literally said "what's that white mother...... doing here?" And they made sure it was loud enough for us to hear it. That was just me. My wife is a victim of the TV stereotype. When she sees a black man in hoodie she gets guard up. Nothing has ever happened, but its association. She associates certain types of dress with urban areas that are higher in crime. A perfect example is when we watched The Blind Side and how it portrayed Michael Oher's neighborhood. She now has a mental association of black men, who look like them, as being like them. It scares her. Myself, I don't really care, doesn't bother me at all. Likewise, Mark Cuban is expressing the same thing as my wife. At least that's how I see it.

[CRobi21]

To me theres nothing wrong with profiling, which is all this is. Its human instinct to profile a stranger at first glance. I know I do it all the time, to all kinds of people.

Its that unknown about a stranger that forces us to profile.

[skinsmarydu]

The house I owned all by my little self was in a primarily black neighborhood,...and I knew for a fact that the 3 times I was burglarized had absolutely nothing to do with the dynamics of the neighborhood...there were homeless folks living in a shack in the woods behind my house, tried to tell the police, they didn't listen.

I lived in that house for 10 years. My husband will tell you how upset I get sometimes about having to sell it and move...but it was NEVER because of my neighbors, or their friends, or visitors, or anything about the area. I was losing tons of stuff, and my alarm company (that is owned by a dear friend) was being driven bat**** crazy because the homeless folks in the woods had figured out my schedule, and I couldn't fight break-ins anymore.

Chris Hayes has a new "the more you know" commercial, and it's about not judging folks on what they look like, and Chris Matthews has a huge one about "do you want to judge people on what they look like, or what they do?"

Gotta find that "happy medium".

[Sticksboi05]

But as Tony Kornheiser's intern (of all people) pointed out on PTI last night, Cuban generalized all black people and while being very specific about white people.

 

The black person could be the valedictorian at Sidwell Friends wearing a school sweatshirt and Cuban is running for his life. The white person needs to look a very specific way.

 

And, yes, I assume a white guy with tattoos and a shaved head could be valedictorian at Sidwell Friends too. But what Cuban was basically saying is that he is afraid of black people and white people who look like bikers.

 

So...I and most of the white posters on this board are free to approach Mark Cuban. Black guys...check your wardrobe first.

 

By the way, the biggest sin Cuban committed here is implying that he totally gets why Trayvon Martin was killed. That image of the black men in a hoodie is little raw these days.

 

I think you're grasping at straws.  Cuban wasn't trying to imply he is more fearful of blacks, he was just trying to give two examples and imply that prejudice goes towards all races.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I think you're grasping at straws.  Cuban wasn't trying to imply he is more fearful of blacks, he was just trying to give two examples and imply that prejudice goes towards all races.

 

I know what he was trying to do. And I think his point is valid. He made the point in a ridiculously sloppy matter - which is what seems to always happens when white people try to "have a serious discussion about race."

 

It just never ceacese to amaze me how this always happens. I think its hubris. Mark Cuban really seems to believe that saying "We all have predjudices" is revelatory. And he feels that it is so important that he needs to validate it with real world examples. Because otherwise no one would understand his point.

 

Here is what he could have said: "We all have prejudices in our personal life. What the NBA is dealing with now is what happens when those personal prejudices intersect with our public life. It's a difficult situation but it's one that every business owner eventually must deal with. My goal has always been to have businesses that were free of prejudice and I will continue with that aim."

 

I hate that we live in a world where the color of your skin and how you're dressed automatically determines who you are (to some people anyway), but it is what it is...

 

Like I said, that's probably all true.

 

I think where Mark Cuban got himself into some trouble is thinking that a) he was stating some revelatory opinion, Mark Cuban is the one best suited to state this revelatory opinion, and c) what this revelatory opinion really needed was some illustrations.

[chipwhich]

I know what he was trying to do. And I think his point is valid. He made the point in a ridiculously sloppy matter - which is what seems to always happens when white people try to "have a serious discussion about race."

 

It just never ceacese to amaze me how this always happens. I think its hubris. Mark Cuban really seems to believe that saying "We all have predjudices" is revelatory. And he feels that it is so important that he needs to validate it with real world examples. Because otherwise no one would understand his point.

 

Actually, it's that white people can't discuss race at all without it being misconstrued, while black folk like Snoop Dog can say anything racist they want.  It's not misconstrued, it's just racist, but it's not the media darling story.

 

Black folk can get away with racist stuff without it being a media frenzy.

[Chew]

 

 

Black folk can get away with racist stuff without it being a media frenzy.

 

won't argue with that.  it's as if blacks get a free pass to say whatever they want somtimes, and if its in the least bit over-the-top, its just that "they're passionate." 

 

 whenever we come to the race discussion, blacks can say whatever's on their minds, yet whites must walk a tight rope or be ridiculed.   Other than being a smug billionaire, Mark Cuban seems like an okay guy, and I doubt there's a racist bone in his body. 

[Taylor703]

I know what he was trying to do. And I think his point is valid. He made the point in a ridiculously sloppy matter - which is what seems to always happens when white people try to "have a serious discussion about race."

 

It just never ceacese to amaze me how this always happens. I think its hubris. Mark Cuban really seems to believe that saying "We all have predjudices" is revelatory. And he feels that it is so important that he needs to validate it with real world examples. Because otherwise no one would understand his point.

 

Here is what he could have said: "We all have prejudices in our personal life. What the NBA is dealing with now is what happens when those personal prejudices intersect with our public life. It's a difficult situation but it's one that every business owner eventually must deal with. My goal has always been to have businesses that were free of prejudice and I will continue with that aim."

 

Like I said, that's probably all true.

 

I think where Mark Cuban got himself into some trouble is thinking that a) he was stating some revelatory opinion, Mark Cuban is the one best suited to state this revelatory opinion, and c) what this revelatory opinion really needed was some illustrations.

He said nothing wrong. He simply pulled no punches and gave real examples from his own life which apparently white people aren't allowed to do according to you. I mean let's be honest, Cuban is far from racist and generally seems like a good dude. For him to actually give an example instead of being an idiot about like Paula Dean or Riley Cooper who tried to claim those were their only acts of prejudice was commendable.

[daveakl]

Mark Cuban seems like an okay guy, and I doubt there's a racist bone in his body. 

I'm fairly certain all his bones are white.  Can't get more racist then that.

[Chew]

I'm fairly certain all his bones are white.  Can't get more racist then that.

 

you've got a point there...

 

You know what....**** Mark.  and **** Dirk, too.  Gestapo ****.  lol.

[skinsmarydu]

There is no H in Cris Carter's name, dammit.

I feel better now.

[MEANDWARF]

I'm racist against everyone above 5 ft.
Family excluded.

[Sticksboi05]

So many people are missing the boat by obsessing with the comparison between a black kid with a hoodie and a white guy with tattoos and a bald head.  That comparison was never intended to be made, they were just random examples of common stereotypes.

[skinsmarydu]

I'm racist against everyone above 5 ft.

Family excluded.

Me too!!!!

[Larry]

Y'all are just trying to make the Giants change their name, aren't ya? 

[MEANDWARF]

Y'all are just trying to make the Giants change their name, aren't ya?

Writing a letter to Goodell as we speak.

[megared]

So many people are missing the boat by obsessing with the comparison between a black kid with a hoodie and a white guy with tattoos and a bald head.  That comparison was never intended to be made, they were just random examples of common stereotypes.

 

Cuban missed the boat with his false equivalencies.  So all I have to do, is roll out of bed, and put a hoodie on whereas (his words, not mine) a white guy has to devote hours upon hours to mutilate his body to have the same effect?  It may not matter that I could be walking a dog, jogging, etc.  It's also problematic because what he's referencing is a highly polarizing case that was almost entirely split along racial lines...all he was missing was a reference to Skittles.  

 

This also ignores the fact that it has nothing to do with Sterling saying what he said about a darn ambassador of the NBA.  Magic Johnson isn't some random black man walking down a proverbial dark street.  He's recognizable world wide for being an NBA legend, the face of HIV, as well as a highly successful businessman.  I'd venture to say if Magic Johnson is walking around with a hoodie, it's because he doesn't want to be recognized.  

 

Conforming doesn't fix this mindset.  Blacks would still be sitting at the back of the bus if Rosa Parks chose to conform to white people's wishes.  We'd still be living Separate but 'Equal' if guys like MLK, Malcom X said 'Hey at least they're being honest'.  To me, the conversation should be 'Donald Sterling, Mark Cuban, why do you feel this way?'  'What's the underlying reasoning behind this mindset?'  

 

I don't agree with the whole 'conform to make myself nonthreatening' on a matter of principles.  If you have a problem with me walking down a street at night because of my skin color, it's YOUR problem, not mine.  If you're going to go out of the way to cross the street, it gives me more room to walk, and has the added benefit of me not having to worry about you.

[Sticksboi05]

Cuban missed the boat with his false equivalencies.  So all I have to do, is roll out of bed, and put a hoodie on whereas (his words, not mine) a white guy has to devote hours upon hours to mutilate his body to have the same effect?  It may not matter that I could be walking a dog, jogging, etc.  It's also problematic because what he's referencing is a highly polarizing case that was almost entirely split along racial lines...all he was missing was a reference to Skittles.  

 

 

Yes, but see, as LKB alluded to, his elocution of his points was the issue.  His point, in context, wasn't to say that a black kid in a hoodie should fairly be judged as equally menacing as a white guy with tattoos all over his face, just that those are two common stereotypes.  To some people, they probably are equally menacing, the argument isn't that that is fair and logical. 

 

 

I have no idea if this is a prelude to the Sterling vote but if he was intending to draw sympathy for Sterling, well for one, F that and two, Cuban's addressing prejudice, Sterling's words were pure racism, apples and oranges.

[Kosher Ham]

Magic with a hoodie would be someone I would watch more...certainly not being ignored or dismissed.

Magic can dress any way he chooses...that does not mean that I will dismiss a six foot nine in a hoodie headed my way.

 

Same as when you walk into a bank or business with a hoodie covering your face.

 

Beyond that mega... I feel like you are reaching. Perhaps overthinking, or looking for racism.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Damn I wear hoodies all the time when it's cold. **** sometimes when it's nice out lol. Plus I'm tatted. But I'm white. So what does that mean about me? Lol.

It means Mark Cuban is running away from you.

[megared]

Yes, but see, as LKB alluded to, his elocution of his points was the issue.  His point, in context, wasn't to say that a black kid in a hoodie should fairly be judged as equally menacing as a white guy with tattoos all over his face, just that those are two common stereotypes.  To some people, they probably are equally menacing, the argument isn't that that is fair and logical. 

 

 

I have no idea if this is a prelude to the Sterling vote but if he was intending to draw sympathy for Sterling, well for one, F that and two, Cuban's addressing prejudice, Sterling's words were pure racism, apples and oranges.

 

It was a stupid and troubling comparison.  For Cuban to say it was even dumber, because when is he going to be walking on a street by himself?  Was his point to garner sympathy for Sterling by somehow placing his biases into a situation the 'commoner' may relate to, without admitting that's not in his realm of possibility?  

 

Sterling was explicitly referring to Magic Johnson.  What does that have to do with Cuban's statement concerning a random black kid with a hoodie on?  Is he implying that some subconscious prejudice compelled Sterling to not want Magic Johnson at his games?  The guy that has a statue at the Staples Center?! 

 

Beyond that mega... I feel like you are reaching. Perhaps overthinking, or looking for racism.

 

Which is why an honest conversation on this kinda stuff can't be accomplished.  The people that prejudice/racism is directed at it are silenced as if I'm looking for it.  That I'm reaching.  Note that nowhere in my post did I so much as insinuate Cuban to be a racist.  

 

I agree with Cuban's overarching desire to control prejudices and be self-aware.  What I don't agree with is applying it to a situation with an individual having a history of acts and statements qualifying as overt racism.  

 

You'd be able to clearly see it was Magic Johnson with a hoodie on.  The conversation was about hoodies...not ski masks.  At best it'd cover his ears and part of his hairline.  Unless you've been under a rock for the past 30 years, you'd probably recognize him from half a block away, right after you realized he's very tall.  

[Bubble Screen]

Cuban said nothing wrong and should never have apologized for anything.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Being followed in the store, that's just become second nature to me.  It happened a lot more while in NC & SC (shocker), but not nearly as much in more progressive areas Seattle and Denver.  Also, when I was younger I dressed like an idiot, which was asking for attention.  Not that I walk around in linen pants and Birkenstocks these days, but I dress age appropriate for a 32 year old, and people don't look at me like I'm a threat or even just an idiot.

When I worked in grocery retail in Charlotte, it was amazing how some of the employees acted when a black person came into the store.  Horrible how they automatically assumed that person was a thief, etc.  Some of the employees acted like they never saw a black person before.

 

When in my personal experience, old people will **** you over and rob you blind, no ****.  Why do you think that nice little 80 year old lady carries a big purse?  We caught them stealing huge hams, etc.  One old lady somehow brought in a razor blade and could cut off the NPC codes off the Health and Beauty Aides products (like cough syrup, etc.) while holding in one hand, we could never see it done though, I think they finally caught her.  She was stealing those to mail in rebates and get cash back.

 

I remember one time an associate said better watch that guy (black man in a hoodie).  Guy walks over to me, gives me pound and hug, was my friend from High School (2 years older) who went to UNCC with me.  Guy about **** his pants, look on his face was priceless.  

[chipwhich]

When in my personal experience, old people will **** you over and rob you blind, no ****.  Why do you think that nice little 80 year old lady carries a big purse?  We caught them stealing huge hams, etc.  One old lady somehow brought in a razor blade and could cut off the NPC codes off the Health and Beauty Aides products (like cough syrup, etc.) while holding in one hand, we could never see it done though, I think they finally caught her.  She was stealing those to mail in rebates and get cash back.

 

LOL I was in CVS a few months back, the old lady in front of me, when walking in the store and down the soda/nut/snack isle blocked my entrance temporarily as she quickly unscrewed the lid on Macadamia nuts, ripped of the plastic/paper lid underneath and squirreled away a huge handful of nuts.  She screwed the lid back on and continued her way into the store.  I was thinking WTF.  Sorry for the derail.