Ian Rapoport Has Spoken To Several GM's Regarding Cousins

[Skins3000]

I think that fans need to be a little bit more realistic because they are playing with fools gold thinking a team will trade high draft picks for a player based on only 3 games against teams that have some of the worst defense in the league. Matt Cassel played I want to say about 14 games and gave a season of work to make a conscience judgement. G.M's are not dummies and do not repeat other teams mistakes like the Chiefs for Cassel and I would even say the Texans for Schaub. They would prefer low risk with high return. For a fan base to think that Kirk Cousins would get a first round draft pick by beating the Cleveland Browns and scoring on one drive against Baltimore is insane to me. Then because Cousins plays against Atlanta, Giants, and Cowboys a GM is going to put his job on the line by giving up a first round draft pick because Cousins beat some of the worst defensive teams in the NFL?

[Wildbunny]

And I just flat disagree with that approach.

If it's to placate Robert, then guess what kid, this is the big leagues, grow up and deal. There's no room for jealousy or nervousness or anything.

Having 2 good QBs is better than 1. And having Kirk here to push Robert wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

If I was running things, I'd keep both, tell Robert to grow up, and just be better than him and he'll play.

Simple. And if RGIII had a problem with that, he can stew on the bench until he figured out that's how professional life is. And if RGII had a problem with it, I'd politely tell him to shut his trap.

I'm not a big fan af catring the the emotions if 23 year olds. So I guess that makes me an old fart.

Completly agree on this.

Keep Kirk for now, and let them compete.

It rg3 can t bear competition, then trade rg3.

I always said that i doubt rg3 will last long in the NFL. Injuries being the most important thing here.

Don t trade Kirk. If. RG3 injures his knee again next year and you just traded Kirk, you ll look like a moron.

[redskinsrmylyfe]

Why not trade Kirk to Cleveland for Gordon ?

[skinsdude]

Why in the world would we trade Cousins? He is under contract. Look, I see the potential in RGIII and would love to see him return to his 2012 form next year. I think he has a great chance to do that. But there are zero guarantees.

 

But if Cousins does well, why would you trade him when you are still not sure what you have in RGIII? Let's be realistic, QBs go down all the time. I would much rather have Cousins come off the bench then Grossman who should be finally off this roster.

 

A 1st rd draft pick IMO is not worth giving up our best back up plan if RGIII either goes down again or does not make the huge step forward he needs to.

This pretty much sums it up for me. People seem to have forgotten about what happened at the end of the regular season last year.

[ultravin]

I said this in another thread. What if Texans want Cousins and would rather use draft + Cousins to fix their holes without rebuilding. Teams currently picking 4, 5, 6, 7 all need Qbs badly and could trade up to #1. Texans, theoretically, could trade 1 to Cleveland for #7 and #24 and #39 (all current picks based on standings). Then they could turn around and trade #24 to Washington for Cousins and still have #7, #33 and #39 to revamp and get back on top ... plus their QB ...

 

Or they could go Bridgewater #1.

 

Not sure how that would work, if we could trade Cousins to them for a conditional pick and have it be their 33 and maybe 65 ... and have that change to 24 if the trade is made on draft day, etc. But it could be an option. Or we could trade Cousins to them for 2nd and 3rd, then allow them to turn around and take trade offers for #1 and basically move back a few spots and recoup those picks (trading #1 for #5, 2nd, 3rd and 2015 2nd) for example. Then they're essentially trading back from 1 to 5 for Kirk.

 

Or if Houston is set on Bridgewater at #1 and Hundley doesn't come out ... Vikings (4), Jags (5), Raiders (6), and Browns (7, 24) could be interested in trading for Cousins and giving us their 2nd ... or in teh Browns case, maybe even their 24th in the 1st.

i like this scenario and would most likely to happens if:

-cousins plays really well the last three games and impresses the shannys

-snyder and shanahan collaborates and plans an exit

-skins fire shanny after the season

-texans hire shanny

-shanny gives us that 24th pick costing the skins 7 million dollars for firing shanahan

-we

[MartinC]

-shanny gives us that 24th pick costing the skins 7 million dollars for firing shanahan

-we

If you could back to back all that in a contract you could start a collection on ES and get pretty close to the $7M to get it done :-) Well the first couple of hundred dollars anyway ....

Word is though the Texans are not interested in Shanny .....this might be his last stop as a HC.

[Burgold]

There has been a history of QB trades in the NFL.  They almost always generate a premium.  It's been that way for twenty years whether you're talking about guys with limited experience like Flynn or Fielder and Farve or graybeards like Mc Nabb or Brunnell.  Allen, assuming he's stil here, is a reasonably good trader, and we generally haven't been fleeced under his watch.  Heck, you can argue that he's made several deals that went in our favor (McNabb and Haynesworth, for example).  So, I'm not sure why so many believe the NFL will suddenly wise up or that everyone will try to pry Cousins out on the cheap.  There's no way he is traded for a third. 

 

He's worth much more as a back up.  No team in their right mind would give away a qb with potential and a very good back up for a third. A third round pick is way too far from a sure thing.

[justice98]

Don't forget, teams that are desperate for a starting qb will do a lot.  Ponder was a 2nd or 3rd round qb and was drafted at #12.  Don't forget guys like Schaub and Kolb were traded for multiple seconds. 

 

And all it takes is for one team to become convinced Cousins is the real deal.  And Cousins has no beef with the Shanahans, so you'd think if Shanny is ousted, he'll get a good recommendation.

[Leonard Washington]

This is borderline ridiculous and I hope our FO doesn't listen to this.  I can't imagine Cousins, after 1 regular season game and few relief moments is worth a 2nd round pick.  If Cousins plays lights out, particularly against the Cowboys, then we might have a chance with a 3rd.  However if Kirk plays lights out, half this board and the media will be advocating for Cousins to start next year.

[justice98]

Why not trade Kirk to Cleveland for Gordon ?

 

Cleveland has to want to make that deal.

[Mursilis]

If you can flip a fourth for a first, you do it.

 

You can't look a trade in terms of the pick used to get a player - you have to look at it in terms of the player's current worth.  Take Alfred Morris as an example - he was only a 6th rounder, but he has demonstrated a worth far above that.  Therefore, would it be a smart trade to ship him somewhere else for a 4th?  After all, you're getting a 4th for a 6th, right?  I'd say that would be a bad trade because even though you'd be getting back a pick higher in value than the pick you spent, you still wouldn't be getting good value for that particular player. 

This is borderline ridiculous and I hope our FO doesn't listen to this.  I can't imagine Cousins, after 1 regular season game and few relief moments is worth a 2nd round pick.  If Cousins plays lights out, particularly against the Cowboys, then we might have a chance with a 3rd.  However if Kirk plays lights out, half this board and the media will be advocating for Cousins to start next year.

 

Strange deals still happen.  Remember when Seattle sent a third and swapped 2nd rounders with San Diego for Charlie Whitehurst (who was THIRD on the depth chart)?  The guy had only ever played in 2 regular season games!!  GMs are human beings, and human beings make epic mistakes sometimes. 

[TheGreek1973]

As much as protection the QBs get now from the rules, for some reason every year we have one or two go out with major time missed.  Look at the Rams, look at GB, look at the Bears.  Bottom line is GMs are recognizing you need a decent backup also,  What would happen if Manning went down?  Brady?  hell GB is no where without Aaron. 

 

So if what I said above is true then Cousins should he play very well these 3 games, he becomes a very valuable asset.  I don't think I would even entertain giving him up for a 2nd round pick.  With RGIII having injury issues and the way he plays the position you need a capable backup.  Granted this is such a mess that having Cousins around will great major issues, but you get a coach that can manage this well and it should be ok. 

 

it also depend on our next HC and OC.  Are they sold on the RO?  Because you guys are crazy if you think all of a sudden RGIII will become a pocket passer.  First we will need to rebuild the OL for such an offense and 2nd it will take him a couple of seasons at least to be comfortable in the pocket.

[justice98]

Why can't we have both on the roster? Cousins is a good kid and maybe on a personal level deserves a chance to start. It may bed here. E very one is making the huge assumption that RGIII is going to come back and be the 2012 RGIII. There is very little to suggest that is a promise. Even if he does, the likelihood he misses games is very high. 

 

At some point we will have to fish or cut bait and move one of these two. But why be in a hurry? Let's at least wait to see what happens next year. To me, this is move of desperation when patience is needed. 

 

As far at being healthy, if RGIII can't handle the pressure, that is all the more reason to keep Cousins on the team!! It means RGIII may just not be able to cut it! 

 

I'm hoping this whole experience winds up being good for RG3 in the long run.  If he can't learn from this fiasco of a season, he's in trouble.  I think mentally, he needs a reset and a fresh start.  Dispense with all the extraneous "stuff" he got bogged down in, humble himself, and hone his craft at the QB position under a new regime.  Because this offseason will be a complete 180 from the last one on a whole host of levels, on and off the field. 

 

But to your point, I think if RG3 IS the franchise QB we all hoped he would be, he'll take this challenge and competition, use it to make him a better QB and end all doubt.  

[Probos]

The next three games will determine the vast majority of Kirk's trade value in the off season.

 

My bs guess would be, if he plays well at the most the Skins would get a 3rd or 4th rounder.

[Aireskoi]

I think the next HC will be 100% on board with RG3 or he will not be hired.

 

The next coach, assuming he comes from the NFL, should want to ditch Grossman and trade Cousins to bring in his own Veteran QB.  However, should the next coach come from college, he should want a player that has worked with his system in college, regardless of sucess or experience in the NFL.

 

Next year we should have RG3 and a new QB or two that knows the new system, or that have similar attributes to RG3 if that is not possible. 

 

I hope for a trade that brings us a 1st out of Cousins, even if we have to give up a lower round in return.

[justice98]

As much as protection the QBs get now from the rules, for some reason every year we have one or two go out with major time missed.  Look at the Rams, look at GB, look at the Bears.  Bottom line is GMs are recognizing you need a decent backup also,  What would happen if Manning went down?  Brady?  hell GB is no where without Aaron. 

 

 

Except, I don't know how many people considered Kellen Clemens or Josh McCown to be decent backups before now.  When has anybody thought Clemens was any good?  McCown was the third string QB before this season.  

 

I think the problem isn't GMs recognizing, it's what you're paying these franchise QBs, that it's tough to pay for a guy like Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, and then be able to pay a decent backup.  You gotta fit that backup under the cap with the starter eating up a huge hunk of it.  You almost have to hope you find a guy in the draft for cheap that you think can play (Mike Glennon, Ryan Mallet, our very own Cousins) or a bargain basement vet (Josh McCown).  And Dallas has managed to work it out so they can keep Kyle Orton around.

 

I think GMs have always known, but there's just aren't that many good backup QBs out there to go around.

I think the next HC will be 100% on board with RG3 or he will not be hired.

 

The next coach, assuming he comes from the NFL, should want to ditch Grossman and trade Cousins to bring in his own Veteran QB.  However, should the next coach come from college, he should want a player that has worked with his system in college, regardless of sucess or experience in the NFL.

 

Next year we should have RG3 and a new QB or two that knows the new system, or that have similar attributes to RG3 if that is not possible. 

 

I hope for a trade that brings us a 1st out of Cousins, even if we have to give up a lower round in return.

 

I would imagine that's the case as well.

 

But it scares me that we basically may have to build RG3 back from the ground up.  He still can't play from the pocket all that well and he'll have a new system to learn at the same time.

[Bang]

I think that fans need to be a little bit more realistic because they are playing with fools gold thinking a team will trade high draft picks for a player based on only 3 games against teams that have some of the worst defense in the league. Matt Cassel played I want to say about 14 games and gave a season of work to make a conscience judgement. G.M's are not dummies and do not repeat other teams mistakes like the Chiefs for Cassel and I would even say the Texans for Schaub. They would prefer low risk with high return. For a fan base to think that Kirk Cousins would get a first round draft pick by beating the Cleveland Browns and scoring on one drive against Baltimore is insane to me. Then because Cousins plays against Atlanta, Giants, and Cowboys a GM is going to put his job on the line by giving up a first round draft pick because Cousins beat some of the worst defensive teams in the NFL?

 

All of this goes out the window with the quarterback position. GMs may not be stupid, but they are desperate to win, because if they don't they don't stay GMs.

If a QB shows he can play at this level, his value is incalculable. It's happened many more times than Cassell did, and it's been going on since free agency began.

Most bust. Schaub showed about the same amount of playing time as Kirk has up to this point, and Houston jumped on him the second he became available.

He's OK, but he's not much more than that.

Kevin Kolb showed up nice and was dealt for a second just 2 years ago by Reid. He's now listed on the Bills roster, but is literally FIFTH string. They have four QBs active ahead of him. 

Matt Flynn showed some flashes, the Seahawks ponied up, the Raiders ponied up, and within a year he's out of th league, until an injury forced his phone to ring.

Those are just recent ones..  the past is littered with them as well.

 

GMs don't think straight when it comes to the QB position. The pressure to find one is enormous,, most of them who have struggling teams absolutely have to have one.

The QB is seen as the Savior position..the one position where one guy can turn the whole team around... from the FO perspective, a new QB on a struggling team is a beacon of hope, and a major selling point. Even owners and front offices who aren't' known as meddlers will pressure for that whether they  do it consciously or not.

 

I'm so conflicted.

I think RG3 being benched is the worst thing we could do, but at the same time leaving him out there behind Palumbus is getting him killed, and it is a part of why he's making so many other mistakes. I've said it before, he's "Ramseying".. ala Patrick, he's thinking too much about the constantly collapsing pocket and not enough on what he needs to do. It's causing bad decisions ..bad throws and mistakes.

Every time he sails a ball, you can see him go deeper into it. It's almost like as he's walking back to the huddle telling everyone it's on him, he's begging them to stick with him and not lose faith. I'm likely reading WAY into that, but he looks like a guy who's playing as if he's terrified of making a mistake. They say a QBs best friend on the field is a short memory.. forget the mistake and move to the next play. He doesn't seem to be doing that, and it compounds.

 

I do agree that another lost offseason would be ultimately disastrous to his entire career. So in a way I can see the logic.

BUT, if it's that bad, throw Rex to the wolves and don't get Kirk killed too. As it is there's GMs saying Kirk is worth a 2nd right now.

I'LL TAKE IT. He was a 4th, a high second would be welcome.

Let's face it, he's not here to ride the bench until his contract is up, his best value to us at this point is a trade chip.

We have no first, but two picks in the first 5-6 of the second round is not bad. right now we hold what,, the 2nd? if we trade to a team who needs a QB, odds are they're a top ten pick as well, maybe a top five. 

Pick up a journeyman backup, maybe take another one late. Hell, keep Rex. Why not?

2 picks high in the second round is a nice thing to think about.

 

Playing Cousins..  what if he does well:? I think LKB made the thread yesterday about the biggest disaster would be if he only takes three sacks, and that would be 100% true... at that point the trade value of RG3 has to be considered. It's like Heath and Gus all over again. 

But if he does well, his value increases. i would not read much more into it than that.. i do think he will probably look better in the pocket simply because of his background in the pocket as opposed to RG3,, he seems to set up nicely and throw on target.

But last week just as i saw that, I saw Palumbus let a guy in and get Cousins' teeth rattled. 

I don't think he' going to be demonstrably better in terms of wins losses.. although the schedule is much more favorable.

he will show some poise, and hopefully he won't do anything to decrease his value, which is what i think is the most likely scenario. because of all the other issues with the team he will find himself in many of the same situations as Robert,, under fire, back up against the goal line..  the other team scoring at will.

 

~Bang

[TheGoodBits]

Here's an interesting landing spot for Cousins... Chicago. They're on quite the roll with McCown when Cutler has been out... and it's a contract year for Cutler. So they've got an interesting decision for the offseason. Someone will pay Cutler, that's for sure. But if you're Chicago, do you REALLY want to shell out $100m on Cutler when you're winning with McCown? Thing is, McCown is 34. So maybe they hedge that bet by bringing in Cousins to learn the offense for a year and maybe take over in 2015. I think he'd be great in Trestman's offense.

[TheGreek1973]

Justice98 that is exactly my point.  Cousins is on a 2 year 4th round pick salary.  hell even Denver can trade for him, just to have him sit behind Manning and be ready to start in two years if they feel a 38 year old Manning has one more year left really. 

 

If he lights it up, he is very cheap in addition to have shown he capable of being a starting QB.  Remember the only start he has was the Browns game and he played very well.  What if he does the same thing for the next 3 games.  you can't really count coming in event though he did beat the eventual SB champions in relief.

[ConcordNCSkinsFan]

 If Cousins is on the roster come training camp then all we'll hear every day is the media trying to stir up a QB controversy. Hopefully we have a new GM that understands this and flips Cousins for whatever you can get.

[Stadium-Armory]

We drafted him in the 3rd so the people saying we'll only get a 4th out of him aren't paying attention. He's surpassed expectations so there's no reason to assume we'd get LESS than where he was drafted.

 

Also, I think the decision to move him before the draft has already been made and this is his time to make some audition tape.

 

Edit: I guess I was wrong, he was drafted in the 4th. Stand corrected.

[skinsdude]

We drafted him in the 3rd so the people saying we'll only get a 4th out of him aren't paying attention. He's surpassed expectations so there's no reason to assume we'd get LESS than where he was drafted.

 

Also, I think the decision to move him before the draft has already been made and this is his time to make some audition tape.

Kirk was a fourth round pick.

[KingDinka]

I had a thread that was locked due to bad thread title and within it here is a few of the points that I raised:

 

There is a reason certain QBs are passed over until the 4th round. There is a reason majority of successful starting QBs in the league are selected in the 1st round. Also, it is much more easier to be composed and play well as the back up for a few game or even a full season(like Schaub and Cassell) because you're playing with house money. Because the worse that can happen to you is going back to being a back up. Is it a coincidence that those late rounders tend to hit the ceiling and crash and burn like Kolb and Flynn? Not at all, because this game is rigged. Only the best stay on top. To those who want to make the Russel Wilson argument, he wasn't 1st round material solely because of height.

 

Now, to all the Kirk supporters, do you want a super star or a game manager? I'm loving this. You think you can win in this NFL with an average team and a game manager? You think Alex Smith could have done what RG3 did last year? Kids, that's all Kirk is. He's an Alex Smith. He's nobody that teams need to game plan for like Cam or RG3. Ask yourself this, what is Kirk's potential? Not much. He'll give you your 230 yards passing and 1.5 TD and .5 INTs per game. With this Redskins team, especially the defense, you think you gonna beat teams with 1st round caliber QBs like Denver, Carolina, San Fran, Green bay, etc.? How quick you guys forget.

 

Look that the top 6 playoffs teams in each conference right now, name me one QB that was selected pass the 2nd round? And don't give me the Russell Wilson and Brady story. This game is rigged folks, you need your 1st rounders to compete long term. RG3 was NOT a fluke and if you think Kirk will be a superstar in this league, well, I would like to sell you the empire state building for 2mil, no question ask.

[Skins Wingman]

the problem is even if kirk lights it up, i can't ever see a situation where he is the starter and rg3 is the backup. kirk has 2 years left on his contract, do we give up on rg3 before then? no. rg3 is the starter moving forward, you can't think about what if's like what if he gets hurt? if you have a 2nd round pick sitting on the bench in cousins, you make that trade. that pick can turn into the next stud wr who will help us on the field in every game. cousins sitting on the bench isnt helping the team win.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Not sure why armchair GMs on ES seem to think they have better knowledge than NFL experts and GMs. My god, it's hilarious.

 

First, Cousins was pretty lauded out of college. Shanahan had him just behind Wilson on his draft board. People knocked the pick because the Skins took him, not because Cousins didn't have potential.

 

Now, look at history:

- Christian Ponder, Jake Locker, EJ Manuel, Brandon Weeden ... all taken in the last few years with mid-to-late 1sts. 

- Mel Kiper says Skins should get an early 2nd for Cousins RIGHT NOW.

- Ian Rappaport interviews 6 GMs about his value ... ALL 6 SAY HE'S A 2ND ROUND TRADE VALUE.

 

Now WHAT in you people's minds, makes you think that you have more knowledge than these people? With the history and desire for teams to get quality QBs, what makes you think a team, in a possibly week QB draft class, wouldn't part with an early 2nd round pick to get Cousins? 

 

Look at the teams that need a QB and where they currently pick:

1. Houston

4. Minnesota

5. Jacksonville

6. Oakland

7. Cleveland

 

That's JUST at the top of the draft. That's not factoring in teams like Arizona or Chicago who could be looking for signal callers come April. Right now, outside of Teddy Bridgewater ... you don't have anything guaranteed that has declared. Do you really think the Vikings/Jags/Raiders/Browns will be okay with not addressing QB this off-season? Do you not think that, say, Houston takes Bridgewater ... that none of those teams picking 4/5/6/7 wouldn't consider trading their 2nd rounder (and maybe even a 3rd or 4th) to get Cousins, who can step in immediately, and use their first round pick on another need rather than reach for someone? Come on guys.