Ian Rapoport Has Spoken To Several GM's Regarding Cousins

[HigSkin]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000297375/article/dallas-cowboys-urgency-kirk-cousins-market-value-and-more

 

Albert Breer had a decent write-up on it but opinions are going to be all over the place depending on the Team and how he plays:

 

However, an AFC personnel executive said Cousins has "the potential to be a starter." Over the next three weeks, he said, Cousins needs to "win, for one. Move the offense, provide a spark, avoid turnovers, and you'd look for touchdowns over field goals and third-down success." As for if he's worth a high pick, the exec opined, "It only takes one (team), and these few games may have a strong influence on the answer."

 

So as the rest of us (rightly) focus on the Griffin drama, and its connection to Shanahan's and the franchise's futures, Cousins' play looms as a pretty important subplot.

 

The upcoming quarterback draft class doesn't have a slam-dunk guy -- each of the name prospects have holes -- so there's a pretty good chance the veteran market will dictate some of what happens in May, and not the other way around. With a couple good weeks, Cousins could be right there with Jay Cutler as a pivotal figure.

[nemocystem]

I think some of the stats get blown out of proportion too much.  While the numbers overall are similar, I am looking more at the missed opportunities rather than the stats.  It's just things that Griffin isn't seeing and isn't hitting that have really stalled the offense this season.  This isn't to say that he's going to continue down this path, it's just saying that he missed arguably the most important offseason for any young QB (or player for that matter).  We knew he wasn't very sound as a pocket passer so I'm not sure this is a shock.  I think what we see this year is more of what we expected last year. 

 

We played to his strengths last year to boost his confidence IMO.  I think it was right to do that and allow him to see success and what works.  What we're seeing is that defenses have adjusted to him but he hasn't adjusted to them yet.  When he can spend the offseason working through film and what he sees on tape, I think we'll see some great things from Griffin.  We were just spoiled because of how well he played last year in a system he was comfortable in but that system isn't going to be able to be successful long term without some different looks and options out of it. 

 

 

this is flawed logic when not incorporating the entire teams as a quantifiable integer.  it's like the PER stat in the NBA.  doesn't do diddly squat for me without taking in the rest of the team, or the player's defending into account.

 

what you postulate is that RGIII's mistakes are the cause of losses.  firstly...i disagree on principle alone....simply because we haven't been close enough in games for 1 or 2 mistakes to be the sole difference in our demise.  secondly, this concept doesn't take into account a) average starting field position....our is historically bad.  like...setting new records bad. our points allowed via special teams. c) the general defensive ineptitude...magnifying the mistakes into being more damaging, however inconsequential to the actual outcome whereas a pick thrown by Kaepernick may actuall effect the outcome of the game, a pick thrown by RGIII in the 3rd quarter when we're already down by 31 doesn't effect the outcome in so much as a passing thought.  d) to suggest that we've won or lost games simply by RGIII missing a few throws here or there is asinine.  most of these games heven't been close, & really only didn't wind up blowouts because the other offense took its foot off the gas.  as noted...just about any time a team has needed a key first down to ice a game....they get it.  or a key drive to score points...it's as good as theirs.

 

RW's team has won games on the heels of their defense ALONE.  so to say that his stats are more conducive to winning is ludicrous & it severely undermines the ineptitude of our entire performance this year.  it's one of the absolute worst i've ever watched.  there have been years with similar records & even scoring outcomes where i still felt we were in the vast majority of games but one side of the ball was just not meeting their end of the bargain.  usually, in recent years it's been the offense being completely incompetent & incapable of completing a game-winning drive.  now it's the defense letting offenses slip through their hands like water.  special teams just being an utter mockery. 

 

how can you expect to consistently mount 85+ yard drives & keep up with 27ppg allowed (or worse...afraid to look)?  unless you have Peyton Manning ANNNND a great set of WR's.....it simply isn't going to happen enough to stay above .500.period.

 

this is the stuff that bothers me.  just plain ol abuse of the big picture.  nobody with any football IQ would suggest Robert isn't making mistakes.  but to suggest that he bears the entire burden of responsibility without making pointed mention of all the ineptitude surrounding this team is hegemony at best. 

 

best part is...Atlanta blows....so in a sense, this could help KC look great for trade value.  the annoying part is there are plenty of people without any clue about football that will see the highlights or check the stats & go all ****eyed with thoughts about KC being better, or how much this evicerates RGIII as a QB. 

 

just ridiculous........utterly unconscionable.  does anybody actually watch football with a memory about the past anymore?  or do people only remember 1 season at a time?  is there something i'm missing?  this stuff is incredible.......

 

Andrew Luck should be case & point in this matter.  his WR corps, while comparable sans Reggie Wayne, still has a TE in Coby Fleener who is not only good, but is HEALTHY ALL THE TIME.  they have an O-line that gives him decent time.  their only deficiency is in the running game which seems to be more of a result of play-calling imho.  they seem to largely use it as a blitz deterrent as opposed to a working part of the offense from what i see. 

 

still...El Maestro Luck.  or the 2nd coming in some circles has had 3 games worse than i have seen of ANY of RGIII's this season.  now these are the anomalies to be sure & i'm a believer in Luck...i think he's pretty darn good.  but it points out to the lack of levity in these discussions & why most people miss the boat.  in these 3 games he has constantly missed targets, thrown picks, failed to progress through his reads, took off to run without keeping his head up........all things that RGIII is getting literally crucified for.  the differene?  the Colts are 8-5 & in the playoff hunt. 

 

you could say almost exactly the same thing for Kaep & Wilson.  in 4...FOUR of his comeback victories, Wilson has been downright incompetent for 3 quarters.  his only positive being that he didn't give up the ball.  then on the key drives about 30% of his completions are JUMP BALLS!!! which tells me 3 things. 1) he has the utmost confidence in his defense, & doesn't feel ANY need to take unnecessary risks because he has a KNOWLEDGE that his defense will keep him in the game.  2) he isn't that good...& relies on his defense to keep him close on most occassions, & to Beastmode to carry the bulk of the offensive load until....3) when the game is on the line, & the risk outweighs the reward, he will take those risks, & on most occassions his WR's have been able to make plays & pull W's out of their rear-end. 

 

but RW still gets the credit.  why?  because they have an elite winning record & he doesn't make many costly mistakes.

 

i remember when Manning the elder had  a couple of rough years with picks when his defense had some really down years.  people then extremely apt to point out, & all too willing to accept that most of his mistakes had to do with trying to force the ball too much because he felt pressure to make more plays because his defense wasn't carrying their share of the load.  yet for some reason, nobody has come to RGIII's aid to point any of this out, & i don't see Robert as the type to throw his teammates under the bus like that despite what media-generated character assassination attempts would have you believe. 

 

i don't know if it's because...::gulp:: he's of a certain color, or if he's got some athletic ability, or he has braids, or if it really is as simple as people love to villainise the good guy (see Tebow) because they can't stand to see that good people can be successful in this world.  whatever it is, it's disgusting, & pitiful, & just plain impossible to watch or stand for.  i have to speak up when i see this kind of nonsense.

 

/end rant....as you were.

[ghosti]

Easy to do when the team you are about to play is allowing opposing QBs a 104 QB rating. All QBs have great games against them. Also, I think someone posted on here that they are going to start 5 rookies on D?

If that is true, it will be really troubling if Cousins doesn't have a terrific game. Although, their new MLB Paul Worrilous has been tearing it up lately.

 

Really?  Did Griffin have great games against the Gmen and Dallas?  And remember, its playoff time so all play is heightened on every team to win or knock someone out of the race so I would say this is the toughest time of year to play.  This “Cousins is playing easy teams” thing is getting really really old.  

[nemocystem]

Really?  Did Griffin have great games against the Gmen and Dallas?  And remember, its playoff time so all play is heightened on every team to win or knock someone out of the race so I would say this is the toughest time of year to play.  This “Cousins is playing easy teams” thing is getting really really old.  

well....since you asked.

 

actually...Robert was lighting up the Gnats to the tune of 16/17 until we inexplicably changed the entire offense in the 2nd half & forgot how to block for longer than it took for him to set his feet in the pocket. 

 

as for the 'Pukes...we were primed to win that game, or at least be REALLY close until our S/T absolutely spewed chunks & gave up 2 HUGE returns. 

 

not to mention the Detroit game where we were an Aldrick Robinson drop from winning.  the Chargers & Bears games he practically won on his own merits.  the Raiders game...against a pretty highly rated Raiders defense at the time, & the Vikings game where he had to keep pulling crap out of his you know what just to keep us close after our coaching staff (again) inexplicably changed our entire offensive philosophy & allowed them back into a game we had dead to rights. 

 

but continue telling me how KC will outperform RGIII vs. an atrocious Atlanta defense, a porous Gnats defense, & a pathetic 'Pukes defense...at home.  sure would validate his expertise if he so much as equals RGIII's output, right?

[Frediemac]

Only the most foolish would trade Cousins knowing what we know about RG3. There is no chance this team should deal Cousins at this point.

[DJD2]

Only the most foolish would trade Cousins knowing what we know about RG3. There is no chance this team should deal Cousins at this point.

 

I'm curious what you meant by "what we know about RG3".

 

Are you referring to health, performance, attitude, coachability, none of the above ??

 

I tend to agree that they should hang on to Cousins if all they are being offered in return is, say, a 2nd rd pick. (I guess it depends on the offer).

 

Keep Cousins while he is still under contract, give Robert a full offseason, and then see what happens next year. If Robert lights it up and turns into the franchise QB many think he is, then I think you deal Cousins next year. If Robert struggles, then, well, let's not even go there now.

 

But again I'm curious what you meant by that statement.

[returnofthefunbunch]

Anyone hear Shanny say that if Cousins plays well; they'll be able to get a 1st round pick for him?    what coach ever says that?  

I think this is a key point.  I have never heard a coach say that about a quarterback or any other player during the regular season.  This, to me, is the icing on the cake.  Shanny has either totally gone off the deep end, or is intentionally trying to ruin the team before he leaves.

 

Please correct me if it has ever happened before.  I can't remember even Buddy Ryan, Jerry Glanville, Jim Zorn, or any other clueless coaches in NFL history making a statement like that.

[Conn]

I still think that Shanahan (if still here) and Fisher will work on something so we can potentially get our 1st rounder back from them for Cousins and/or a mid round pick. While they were sold on Bradford going into the season, I think they are going to be looking for someone else.

Maybe just wishful thinking haha

Dude. Our pick is going to be top-5. That is the very definition of wishful thinking.

[RandyHolt]

Why would a GM show his hand and give the honest truth to Ian? Trade talk is not normally public. Values vary daily. Injuries strike, backups excel, his value is very dynamic right about now.  With the backups around the league doing fine, I suspect his value likely dipped slightly.

 

Maybe the bigger question should be, what is his value to us. Conversely, some may argue his mere presence is a detriment. I thought we had much bigger needs when he was drafted, and still do. I would love to get a 1st back and live with the risk for now. 

 

If RG3 does not work out, Cousins is not the only QB that can lead our team.

 

While many want to see Cousins, I want to see Kyle's play calls for him even more. I know Cousins will do fine, heavy garcon, a turnover or 2, 60%. Rest assured the play calls will dictate getting rid of that ball quick. The bootleg misdirection quick passing offense will be back. 

 

If he shows well in the final 3 games, it should increase his value but only if demand is there. Which teams would Cousins be better than what they have currently?

[Bang]

Only the most foolish would trade Cousins knowing what we know about RG3. There is no chance this team should deal Cousins at this point.

Sometimes you do.

Steve Walsh and Troy Aikman for instance.

Walsh was taken first in the supplemental draft in 88.. and then saw Aikman picked first overall half a year later.. Jimmy smartly traded Walsh to the Saints for a first, second and third.

A first, second and a third.

Granted, those kind of deals are not very likely to be in the cards for Cousins..(RG3..? Hate to say, but if it turns out he's the "walsh".. that's a lot of value.) Earlier in the thread i mentioned GMs of losin teams are almost all desperate for a QB. Potential is all they need to see to get stupid.

~Bang

[aLuck]

Just for the people talkkng about Luck, he was playing very well up until Reggie Wayne got injured. He beat the 49ers, the Seahawks and the Broncos and in all three games he was very good, especially against the Seahawks. His only good game since Wayne got injured was the Titans one, we've had a pretty solid season all things considered imo.

 

And Pep Hamilton doesn't have the personnell to do what he wants to do, can't blame him with.

[MrJL]

Why would a GM show his hand and give the honest truth to Ian? Trade talk is not normally public. Values vary daily. Injuries strike, backups excel, his value is very dynamic right about now.  With the backups around the league doing fine, I suspect his value likely dipped slightly.

 

 

if the GM in question is not actually in the market for a QB and is just talking about other teams and the way they tend to work, which is perfectly possible, then he has no reason not to be honest

[RandyHolt]

if the GM in question is not actually in the market for a QB and is just talking about other teams and the way they tend to work, which is perfectly possible, then he has no reason not to be honest

You are right, but talk is cheap. If you would have asked me i would have guessed a mid to late 2nd.

 

Maybe a 2nd is average. But some lunkhead GM would pay a kings ransom after watching him on youtube. Others stand firm, and say you paid a 4 you get a 4 back.

 

The waters are so muddied now, we don't even know if Mike drafted him with the intention of selling, insurance for RG3, secretly coveted him all along, or all 3.

 

Don't forget, the value means nothing unless 2 GMs agree on it, and one is holding the keys. Mike may well value Cousins now higher than ever.

 

Lets revisit this in 3 weeks.

[KingDinka]

I was reading an article on NFL.com and a scout suggesting that Kirk is not worth a high draft pick nor is he a starter material. The scout saw:

 

 

Cousins as something of a rich man's Nick Foles -- an "above-average starter who you would love to have as your backup."

 

The scout was asked if he would give up a high pick for Cousins in which he stated:

 

"As my starter, no," he responded. "I just don't think he's worth giving up a high-round pick for when, in the end, you're gonna be looking to replace him."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000297745/article/mike-shanahan-kirk-cousins-might-yield-firstrounder

 

 

This is what I've been saying all along. As a back up doing map up duty Kirk can be quite useful but to think that he's some superstar QB that should be starting for this team is just being short sighted. And I doubt teams will give a 2nd for him. Maybe a 3rd because Flyn, Kolb, and Schaub didn't help Kirk's cause. I keep asking this question to all those pro Kirkers, what is his ceiling? What are some of the physical attributes that distinguish him and make him a franchise caliber QB?  But for the sake of the Skins I hope a GM is stupid enough to give us a 1st for him.

[ghosti]

well....since you asked.

 

actually...Robert was lighting up the Gnats to the tune of 16/17 until we inexplicably changed the entire offense in the 2nd half & forgot how to block for longer than it took for him to set his feet in the pocket. 

 

as for the 'Pukes...we were primed to win that game, or at least be REALLY close until our S/T absolutely spewed chunks & gave up 2 HUGE returns. 

 

not to mention the Detroit game where we were an Aldrick Robinson drop from winning.  the Chargers & Bears games he practically won on his own merits.  the Raiders game...against a pretty highly rated Raiders defense at the time, & the Vikings game where he had to keep pulling crap out of his you know what just to keep us close after our coaching staff (again) inexplicably changed our entire offensive philosophy & allowed them back into a game we had dead to rights. 

 

but continue telling me how KC will outperform RGIII vs. an atrocious Atlanta defense, a porous Gnats defense, & a pathetic 'Pukes defense...at home.  sure would validate his expertise if he so much as equals RGIII's output, right?

 

The word is WE LOST.  And how much did we score against the Giants?  A whopping 17.  How much against the Boys?  A whopping 16.  Yeah, call it lighting it up.  

 

Stats mean nothing unless you win and last time I checked Griffin lost to the Boys(convincingly) and to the Giants ( who were the most pathetic team at the time) so if Cousins wins, even if he doesn’t light them up as you say… its a positive in the right direction.  

[KingDinka]

Just for the people talkkng about Luck, he was playing very well up until Reggie Wayne got injured. He beat the 49ers, the Seahawks and the Broncos and in all three games he was very good, especially against the Seahawks. His only good game since Wayne got injured was the Titans one, we've had a pretty solid season all things considered imo.

 

And Pep Hamilton doesn't have the personnell to do what he wants to do, can't blame him with.

Actually, he was still under 60% passing even with Wayne. And, I thought you Luck homers use to say he makes the HOFamer better. What a joke. And he use to target Wayne on 66% of his attempts, talk about progression.

[MrJL]

I was reading an article on NFL.com and a scout suggesting that Kirk is not worth a high draft pick nor is he a starter material. The scout saw:

 

 

The scout was asked if he would give up a high pick for Cousins in which he stated:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000297745/article/mike-shanahan-kirk-cousins-might-yield-firstrounder

 

 

This is what I've been saying all along. As a back up doing map up duty Kirk can be quite useful but to think that he's some superstar QB that should be starting for this team is just being short sighted. And I doubt teams will give a 2nd for him. Maybe a 3rd because Flyn, Kolb, and Schaub didn't help Kirk's cause. I keep asking this question to all those pro Kirkers, what is his ceiling? What are some of the physical attributes that distinguish him and make him a franchise caliber QB?  But for the sake of the Skins I hope a GM is stupid enough to give us a 1st for him.

 

didn't Schaub have several good years?

[truskinsfan18]

How about the scouting report on Brady coming out of the draft?  There isn't a combine drill that can measure heart,dedication, perseverance, reaction time, etc. 

 

There are way too many intangibles involved to trust the opinion of that scout.  From what I've seen with my two eyes is that he can be a top caliber passing threat. 

[KingDinka]

We have a new "over the top" award winner. "This thing might affect the whole league"? Over exaggerate much? I won't even go into the racial component because it is so ridiculous. I can't believe that anyone would post this garbage.

For Shanahan, I'm sure. He'll be known as a franchise destroyer when things aren't going well.

[truskinsfan18]

Cousins may very well turn out to be better than RG3 and I wouldn't be shocked.

 

RG3 can smoke Cousins in a race 100/100 times.

 

RG3 can jump higher than KC.

 

He's more agile.  Probably stronger. 

 

But none of those attributes makes a better QB. 

 

RG3 is also stronger, faster, more agile than Brady, Manning, Brees, Flacco, Romo sits to pee, etc.  

[KingDinka]

Actually, it is not Pagano's offense. Here's a little secret, he's a defensive guy. It is Pep Hamilton's offense.

Also, I believe Luck would play better if the coaching was better and he had a run game. Wayne got hurt. They still don't get TY Hilton involved enough. Pagano has admitted as much. What kind of team lets Darrius Heyward Bey start over Hilton? Not a smart one. Finally Heyward was benched and DaRick Rogers went off this past week.

Benching Heyward and getting Richardson in space really helped achieve his best game this past week. Once they get Hilton more involved and figure out the problems in the run game, they will be fine.

This past week, he did manage his best game of the season and put up 28 against a defense who is 6th in the league in scoring and only allows and 18.8 ppg.

How many point you put up on a blow out lost doesn't matter. And if the Colts doesn't have a run game how come Luck can't be the run game? He has two legs like Cam and RG3. Enough of the excuses for Luck. RG3 got bench because no excuses apply to him, so why the hell Luck have to live in a world of excuses. No running game, no OL, no WR, no defense, no oxygen, no water, that poo doesn't even make sense. Luck is just not accurate with the football. Plain and simple.

[KingDinka]

I beg to differ.  Getting your degree is not the sign of an idiot.     Just suppose he came out early and never got his degree and was injured so bad he could never play again.     Maybe his mother's wish is for him to graduate and get that degree.    But I would hardly say he's an idiot or selfish for wanting to complete college.

The reason people get education is to achieve a better economic status. I'm sure Bridgewater is already a well educated young man, he doesn't need validation having a diploma. And if he did get injured while in the pro he would still have earned enough money to last the rest of his life as the average middle class American only earn about $2 million in their lifetime. His rookie contract as a 1st rounder would be 5 million annually. So if he gets injured on the first play as a pro he'd still get at least $5 mil. But if he get almost decapitated in college like Munchie Legaux he'd be screwed. After all, there is no timetable to get a degree. People keep forgetting that Luck's parents are millionaire ex-football player who is now the athletic director at West Virginia so he could afford to do that. Part of the reason Luck got all those hypes with that football royalty crap.

 

Wait, what? No wonder you're NNT'd.

Is that suppose to mean something?

[KingDinka]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000297375/article/dallas-cowboys-urgency-kirk-cousins-market-value-and-more

 

Albert Breer had a decent write-up on it but opinions are going to be all over the place depending on the Team and how he plays:

 

However, an AFC personnel executive said Cousins has "the potential to be a starter." Over the next three weeks, he said, Cousins needs to "win, for one. Move the offense, provide a spark, avoid turnovers, and you'd look for touchdowns over field goals and third-down success." As for if he's worth a high pick, the exec opined, "It only takes one (team), and these few games may have a strong influence on the answer."

 

So as the rest of us (rightly) focus on the Griffin drama, and its connection to Shanahan's and the franchise's futures, Cousins' play looms as a pretty important subplot.

 

The upcoming quarterback draft class doesn't have a slam-dunk guy -- each of the name prospects have holes -- so there's a pretty good chance the veteran market will dictate some of what happens in May, and not the other way around. With a couple good weeks, Cousins could be right there with Jay Cutler as a pivotal figure.

What holes does Bridgewater have?

[KingDinka]

didn't Schaub have several good years?

That has always been my point. You can get a QB that gives you a good performance even for a whole season but that QB is just not a franchise QB for the long term. Kirk is that type. He's not 1st rounder material because he has not physical attributes that distinguishes as that. There is a reason he was passed over for 4 rounds, just like flynn, colb, cassell and schaub. I hope we get something for him but for people who think he could be our franchise QB are wildly mistaken.

[steve09ru]

this is flawed logic when not incorporating the entire teams as a quantifiable integer.  it's like the PER stat in the NBA.  doesn't do diddly squat for me without taking in the rest of the team, or the player's defending into account.

 

what you postulate is that RGIII's mistakes are the cause of losses.  firstly...i disagree on principle alone....simply because we haven't been close enough in games for 1 or 2 mistakes to be the sole difference in our demise.  secondly, this concept doesn't take into account a) average starting field position....our is historically bad.  like...setting new records bad. our points allowed via special teams. c) the general defensive ineptitude...magnifying the mistakes into being more damaging, however inconsequential to the actual outcome whereas a pick thrown by Kaepernick may actuall effect the outcome of the game, a pick thrown by RGIII in the 3rd quarter when we're already down by 31 doesn't effect the outcome in so much as a passing thought.  d) to suggest that we've won or lost games simply by RGIII missing a few throws here or there is asinine.  most of these games heven't been close, & really only didn't wind up blowouts because the other offense took its foot off the gas.  as noted...just about any time a team has needed a key first down to ice a game....they get it.  or a key drive to score points...it's as good as theirs.

 

You haven't read a word I've said have you?  Firstly, I didn't say the losses were solely on Griffin - I've simply pointed out that his mistakes have led to losses, not only his but others on the team.  It starts with the QB and that is what this thread is discussing.  Your point of 'these games haven't been close' is not true - that has only been the case in 3 of them (Eagles, GB & KC).  Actually, our offense has been in striking distance much more often than not but has **** the bed completely.  Do games end up in blowouts?  Yes.  But the direct result of that is the inability for our offense to sustain drives and stay on the field which then leads to the defense wearing out much earlier than they should. 

 

Again, these issues are not all RG3, but a lot of them are.  I was listening to Chris Russell on the radio yesterday (950) and he was talking about how RG3 is at like 68% completion percentage when he gets the ball out within 2-2.5 seconds and less than 50% when he holds the ball longer than 2.5 seconds.  There are a lot of variables as to why our team has sucked so bad this year but when the QB position has been as bad as it has been this year. 

 

He has not developed in to a pocket passer yet and it is very evident by this year.  The only thing I pointed out in what you quoted what that I think he will develop but he needs time and has been hampered by the time he missed.