Election 16: Donald Trumps wins Presidency. God Help us all!

[Fergasun]

chipwich,

I suppose its hard to see how those numbers would be different if Romney were President. The same reason I cringe when people blame him for out of control healthcare cost.

I see Clinton as a shade to the right Obama.

The issue for me is this: a GOP president will be able to usher in the past 8+ years of a GOP agenda that I largely reject. Obamacare is a minor law in my mind and probably provides more transparency and regulation than any GOP idea.

While I may welcome a greater enforcement of immigration laws, I don't think its the number one problem in the country. No one really believes the national debt/deficit spending is a major issue and is a non issue but sequestration and balanced budgets will be in play with GOP.

The major issues for me are this: healthcare and college education costs are spiraling. Government solutions currently just subsidize the cost without addressing the root cause (price fixing, greed, lack of transparency - so how do we separate greed?).

America is not great because health insurance companies screw all ages for profit and colleges screw young people for profit. We are great when our people/entrepreneurs/citizens and others are free to pursue their lives, goals and dreams without those really needs (health care and education) becoming shackles.

And maybe in this world we shouldn't assume that having a decent job that provides for a family is an "American right" -- no, you need to strive to be a "job creator" -- total BS because that view puts down about 96% of the country who really just want to have a pleasant time on Earth.

But hey, our shackles make people money --so therefore the youth in need of education and all who need health care shall be shackled!

Has any candidate echoed this on the campaign trail? The easiest "target" should actually be the financial industry which has and probably continues to play fire with loans (housing crash) -- but strangely enough no one will go after them.

Sorry for the rant - under President Fergasun, the bankers will be in crosshairs first, followed by the health care scum, and education system third.

Yeah, out of Trump or Hillary and with this Congress in the pockets of 2 out of 3

my policy views are not going to be reflected at all. Bernie has the right ideas, but not sure his solutions help.

Congress needs to change first, until we. have at least 10 Senators and 100 Reps that agree with my views - nothing will change.

In other words, BANKERS, HEALTH INSURANCE, and EDUCATION scammers rig and run the whole system.

[chipwhich]

It's possible she might revert her support, but arguably choosing to not take money from the prison lobby is progress.

 

 

 

 

Glad to know that accepting campaign donations is "getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar".

(But only for Hillary. Not for anybody else).

Stand by your spin.

 

When Black Lives Matter tells Hillary Clinton they want her to stop taking money from the prison lobby and halt mass incarceration....that's not progress, that's being called to the carpet and forced to stop to save your hopes of the Presidency and black voter support.

 

It's like if your wife has been cheating on you for years, and you confront her and she says ok, I'll stop.  It's not progress it's being caught eating the cookies.

 

But I enjoy your spin on it.

 

[@DCGoldPants]

So, what's the deal with Rubio? He's the guy of the establishment right now with Bush being a cold fish. He speaks clearly in debates (looks a big too sweaty). Maybe has a good moment, or a not so good moment. Then you read about him MAYBE playing this long game. But over the past few days, I've read items wondering what his plan really is and also wondering if he's a hard enough worker for a campaign and the job.

 

He can't just keep coming in 3rd once primary voting starts, and expect the guys ahead of him to just consume each other. Right?

[No Excuses]

I'm going to change the narrative of minorities to the poor and how they are manipulated. This way, it includes ALL people, regardless of the color of their skin or their beliefs. Democrats have always been poular with people living below the poverty line and I believe this is by design. It is not coincidental that people living in poverty grow under Democrat leadership and it isn't coincidence that welfare programs grow under democratic leadership. If I can keep you down, while giving you just enough to survive with welfare programs, even to the point where it is more beneficial for me to NOT work (benefits) because I will lose all the free stuff I am getting, I will look like the party giving you the most support, therefore, gaining your vote, keeping me in office. If you don't believe me, do some research on what is happening with a higher minimum wage, people getting paid more are asking to work less, why? So they don't lose any of their welfare benefits. I've seen people turn down jobs because they make more off of welfare and see no value to getting a job. Seen people get a job to hold it just long enough to get more unemployment benefits.

Sure, their are exceptions, I see it every day in the Military, a lot of them came in to better their economic situations. But there are plenty who take advantage of the welfare system and will vote for the party most likely to allow it. The Democrats are great at this. Deception comes in many forms.

 

The biggest welfare queens in this country are red states. Cut your nonsense.

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#red-vs-blue

[Rskins06]

I am a Rubio supporter. I think Trump is sometimes over the top and says some really stupid ****. Cruz seems to say whatever gets him votes. Both Cruz and Trump are anti establishment, Trump has never been in political office and for Cruz, don't think anyone likes him. He seems to be like the kid who isn't picked, then gets mad and takes his ball home.

Just not sure Rubio can get to the top. Once Iowa and NH are done, I would anticipate 4-5 GOP candidates dropping. Then, we will see where their support goes to, Trump, Rubio, Cruz or Christie.

The biggest welfare queens in this country are red states. Cut your nonsense.

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#red-vs-blue

What does that have to do with what I said? Last I checked, welfare was in most part a Federal program. My statement had nothing to do with whether your state was red or blue.

[DogofWar1]

When Black Lives Matter tells Hillary Clinton they want her to stop taking money from the prison lobby and halt mass incarceration....that's not progress, that's being called to the carpet and forced to stop to save your hopes of the Presidency and black voter support.

 

It's like if your wife has been cheating on you for years, and you confront her and she says ok, I'll stop.  It's not progress it's being caught eating the cookies.

 

But I enjoy your spin on it.

 

Is it still spin if she actually follows through?

 

I'm not saying she definitively will, but it is possible that she will.  She was presented with the problems that people were facing and changed her views.  Maybe it's an act, maybe it's not.

 

You're waaaaaayyyyyyyyy over on the cynical fringe with respect to her, and that's not entirely silly, but there's still a chance she's actually grown on the issue.

 

It'd be like if Cruz met with a bunch of Hispanic voters and then suddenly wanted a path to citizenship.  Sure, it could, and based on the vehemence of his opposition to paths to citizenship before, probably would, be a cynical attempt to appeal to the middle and Hispanics, but it's also possible he actually changed his stance.

[No Excuses]

What does that have to do with what I said? Last I checked, welfare was in most part a Federal program. My statement had nothing to do with whether your state was red or blue.

 

You are pinning the issue of welfare acceptance from poor people as a liberal phenomena. The reality says otherwise. For instance, the largest recipients of food stamps come from parts of the country that overwhelming vote Republican. So cut this narrative that poor people are blinded by Democrats and want free stuff. A substantially large chunk of poor America votes Republican while receiving lots of "free stuff".

 

http://swampland.time.com/2013/12/04/interactive-republicans-more-likely-to-have-constituents-who-use-food-stamps/

[No Excuses]

In fact, I think a large failing on the part of Democrats is that they haven't done a good job reaching out to poor white people in rural parts of the country. This article does a great job illustrating the bias that exists when we discuss poverty in urban areas vs. poverty in rural areas.

 

http://inthesetimes.com/rural-america/entry/18526/why-the-left-isnt-talking-about-rural-american-poverty

 

 

Lobao explains that around the same time there arose a “small,” but “vibrant” contingent of rural sociologists at Penn State, University of Wisconsin Madison, Cornell, Ohio State and University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana. But the role of rural sociology, she says, has remained perpetually marginalized, a “residual category” outside of the mainstream discourse. Today, it is not uncommon to see rural sociologists placed into colleges of agriculture, where corporations like Monsanto rule, rather than sociology departments—pushing them further into the recesses of the social sciences.

“The bias is so overwhelming in terms of the urban,” says Loabo, “that the rural is just sort of neglected and not viewed.” Loabo formerly served the as the president of the Rural Sociological Society at Western Illinois University another important hub for rural sociologists over the past 70 years.  

 

 

To say that poverty is some kind of minority problem stuffed with Democrat voting ignorant people who want "free stuff" is such a farce and a complete misrepresentation of poverty and welfare in America.

 

In their own ways, both political parties have failed poor America. There really isn't a political bias to this issue. Poor people vote Democrat in urban areas, poor people also vote Republican but in rural areas. Neither have had their condition improve dramatically. To frame this as a Democrat problem is simply not true. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Of course not. You're not a minority who feels singled out and made to be an outcast for reasons beyond your control. It's not entirely surprising that some of you are completely fine with millions of your fellow citizens being demonized for their race or religion. It's the reason why an asshat like Trump is even popular.

 

Actually, people who belong to the religion on my dads side of the family were rounded up in Europe in the late 30s and 40s and mass executed.  It's cool, keep making assumptions. 

[twa]

The biggest welfare queens in this country are red states. Cut your nonsense.

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#red-vs-blue

 

spoken like a true Dem, vote for welfare then attempt to use it against folk for political gain

 

just a different form of welfare queen.

[No Excuses]

spoken like a true Dem, vote for welfare then attempt to use it against folk for political gain

 

just a different form of welfare queen.

 

I have no issue with welfare and who receives it, poor people in urban or rural America. Nor am I interested in demonizing them. Do you have an issue with me using the term coined by your Lord and Savior?

 

Actually, people who belong to the religion on my dads side of the family were rounded up in Europe in the late 30s and 40s and mass executed.  It's cool, keep making assumptions. 

 

And yet you have no issue throwing support to a bigot who is ramping up public anger against minorities. Not making assumptions, just stating your position.

[Spaceman Spiff]

 

 

And yet you have no issue throwing support to a bigot who is ramping up public anger against minorities. Not making assumptions, just stating your position.

 

Yeah, pretty much. 

 

I'm not quite sure what's worse:  a politician saying some things that aren't nice about minorities or a politician pretending like they care about minorities come election time.  

[twa]

I have no issue with welfare and who receives it, poor people in urban or rural America. Nor am I interested in demonizing them. Do you have an issue with me using the term coined by your Lord and Savior?

 

 

Yet you wish to play the redstate welfare card as if it means something.....no issue except political gain obviously.

 

Reagan was never my 1st choice,much less that 

[No Excuses]

Yet you wish to play the redstate welfare card as if it means something.....no issue except political gain obviously.

 

Reagan was never my 1st choice,much less that 

 

I feel like my job today is to fact check nonsense you all hear on Hannity's show every night. 

[Burgold]

 

 

And yet you have no issue throwing support to a bigot who is ramping up public anger against minorities. Not making assumptions, just stating your position.

I'm not sure that Trump is a bigot. I suspect he's just a muckraker. Eager to ramp up fear and anger for his own gain. I think he's playing a lot of people who he thinks are easy to manipulate. Already, he's been accused of spinning different stories to different groups.

 

He just says what works. In that way, he is the same as any other candidate/politician. The only difference is the amount of flame retardant you need.

[Special K]

Now we Republicans are racist? Glad it isn't the ONLY thing that makes me a Republican though. I mean really, the Democrats have such a rich history of being anti racist, how can you argue with that, with people like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson leading the "we love everybody (well, except if you are white)" train. Democrats are great at using the "race card" to keep the minority vote, they have people convinced republicans are just trying to take away all the free **** they get, take away their benefits, keep them down, etc. When in reality, the Democrats want to keep you afraid to get your vote. By looking like the party supporting minority's, gives them a chance to win elections. Which is why people in poverty GROW when we have Democrat leadership. Wonder why that is? Must be the racist republicans keeping minority's down to help the democrats win elections.

Every election this garbage is pulled out and used against the Republicans, it is a card used by the Democrats when they are losing or fighting for their political careers. The facts don't support it. Trump wants to build a wall to keep ILLEGAL immigrants out, he is a racist. Trump wants to ban Muslims from coming into this country (we do have Muslim extremists trying to get into this country to kill Americans and non-Muslims), he is a racist. Now, his comments were extreme but his goal was clear, safety of All American people (black, white, Asian, Mexican, Muslims, Atheists, etc) MUST be the priority of EVERY president, first and foremost. Out of a thousand refugees, how many extremists are acceptable? 1? 2? 10? I mean what can those few really accomplished? Hate breeds, it easier for me to get you to sympathize with me through hate than love. All it takes is 1 person to kill hundreds, thousands or more Now, I don't support a complete ban on Muslims, I do support on extensive vetting to ensure safety.

First of all, I'm not a "lefty" and I'm not accusing all Republicans of being racist.  In fact, I agree with you that historically the race card is played more against Republicans than Democrats in elections.  

 

That said, how can you think that those of us calling out Donald Trump for being a racist, xenophobic, bigoted narcissist have no factual basis upon which we are speaking?  This guy is the most proficient demagogue, catering to the lowest common denominator of peoples' fear, I have ever witnessed in my lifetime.  The other examples of this form of campaigning I have only read about in history books covering the 1930's/40's era.  A large portion of his campaign utilizes scare-propaganda that taps into people's fear and anger toward our government.  How can you listen to what he is saying and not recognize his campaign for what it is?  

 

You mentioned his being labelled a racist because he is promising to building a wall on our southern border.  Well, building a wall to keep out illegal aliens isn't the issue at all (although it is when we are talking about dumb and ineffective solutions).  However, spewing crap like this IS a problem:  

 

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending the best.  They're not sending you, they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us.  They're bringing drugs.  They're bringing crime.  They're rapists...and some,  I assume, are good people."

 

"There were people that were cheering on the other side of New Jersey, where you have large Arab populations.  They were cheering as the World Trade Center came down."

 

*** When asked about a database system that would track Muslims, he responded with, "I would certainly implement that.  Absolutely."  Then he ups the insanity ante by throwing in, "There should be a lot of systems, beyond databases.  We should have a lot of systems."  Finally, he tops it off by saying Muslims would be forced to sign into the database

 

 *** He tweets completely false information ALL THE TIME.  Not only is it false, sometimes it comes from well known white supremacists.  Clearly, this information is meant to instill fear and further an agenda of racial division.  My favorite example, his tweet about blacks committing 81% of the homicides of white victims.  Not only was that false (real FBI stats show whites are killed by whites 82% of the time), the supposed "source" of this statistic, the "Crimes Statistics Bureau - SF," does not even exist.

 

I could go on and on and on with his racist/xenophobic/bigoted views that he proudly announces at his campaign rallies and in interviews, as well as posts on social media.  But I won't.    I would just like for you and others saying "we" are just "resorting to calling Trump a racist" because "we" don't understand him, to explain why those of us concerned about Trump's rhetoric and the blind support of his followers are in the wrong...   

 

 

By the way, here are just a few other quotes showing how full of crap and unspecific he is about the issues.  

 

His plan for ISIS:

"All I can tell you is it is a foolproof way of winning, and I'm not talking about what some people would say, but it is a foolproof way of winning the war with ISIS." 

What the???  How are people thinking this guy is going to be effective against ISIS or anything in foreign policy?  Why isn't he getting taken to task for this? 

 

 

His plan for the infamous wall:

 

"I will build a great wall - and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me - and I'll build them very inexpensively.  I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall.  Mark my words."

Alrighty, Trump.  We'll take your word for this since we are basically having to take your word for about every dang thing you have proposed in your campaign.

 

  His morbid stupidity in his war against science:

"You take this little beautiful baby, and you pump - I mean, it looks like just it's meant for a horse and not for a child, and we've had so many instances...[in which] a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back and a week later had a tremendous fever, got very sick, very sick, now is autistic."

***Speechless***

[DogofWar1]

Yet you wish to play the redstate welfare card as if it means something.....no issue except political gain obviously.

 

It does mean something, it demonstrates that even in the heart of the "rugged individualism" regions of the country, welfare is still gladly taken and used.

 

It's fine to not take welfare and then demonize it.  It's also fine to take it and not demonize it.  But you have huge swaths of voters, who are mostly GOP voters, that take welfare and then demonize it and the government that provided it.

 

It's one of the reasons we all pretty much universally made fun of the yahoos over in the Oregon thread.  These guys get discount grazing fees, LaVoy mentioned that a such source of his income came from the state for raising kids, and you had people on facebook saying they'd join in, if only if only the durnned government could send them their welfare check.

 

 

Ultimately, there's a wider point to be made about how, if even the most anti-government and anti-welfare people will still embrace the system when it suits them, welfare and subsidizing are necessities for the country to fulfill its noble goals, but at the moment there's a measure of hypocrisy that warrants being pointed out.  To put a twist on a biblical phrase, take the welfare check out of your own wallet before you criticize others who receive one.

[LadySkinsFan]

Deny, discredit, make counter accusations. Seems to be the battle plan of the Democrats. Have to admit, they are very good at it. No one plays the race card, hate women card or hate the poor card better than Democrat politicians.

Just know, just because the Democrats say it, doesn't make it so.

 

Gee, too bad it's not a "card" it's real.  Not a person of color, not a female, not a poor person, then one doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

We live it, every stinkin' day.  I'm a female and at the moment, poor, so 2 out of 3.  Some of us are all three, and we know the Republicans and their policies/platform make war on us.

[LadySkinsFan]

The biggest welfare queens in this country are red states. Cut your nonsense.

 

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/#red-vs-blue

 

 

Also, the multinational corps and other big corps get all sorts of corporate welfare not available to the average working US citizen.

[twa]

I feel like my job today is to fact check nonsense you all hear on Hannity's show every night. 

 

Well you all wouldn't include me, can't say I've ever listened....your fact checking starts with a bias and assumptions.

 

Also, the multinational corps and other big corps get all sorts of corporate welfare not available to the average working US citizen.

 

let me guess ...ya are voting for Hillary ?

 

you should go with Bernie, even he really doesn't want to be a Democrat.

[BornaSkinsFan83]

Now lets get back to calling all GOP's racist while mass incarceration continues.

Wtf...I never realized I had an ally in ya Chip. When did you start caring about us dirty ex-cons?

[visionary]

http://www.thonline.com/news/dubuque/article_f7bf06ee-c77c-11e5-9d03-f7979849282f.html

UPDATE: Trump takes on protesters, GOP rivals during Dubuque stop

 

Alan Schuster said the media and Washington politicians cannot understand the success of Donald Trump. But the 61-year-old Peosta, Iowa, resident isn’t alone in believing the billionaire presidential candidate understands him.

 

“I don’t think any of the news media nor most of the politicians really, truly understand why this is happening. They don’t know,” Schuster said today while waiting for Trump at the Dubuque Regional Airport.

 

“You ask anyone here and they’ll give you about the same answer,” Schuster added. “It’s not about policy, it’s not about ‘He believes this’ or ‘He did that.’”

 

Trump’s black, red and gold Boeing 757-200 touched down at 1:47 p.m., more than 45 minutes past the event’s scheduled start time. The Trump campaign said the Secret Service counted 1,200 people at the event, although the hangar appeared set to hold more. Still, Trump boasted about the turnout.

 

“We were supposed to have 50 or 70 people,” said Trump, who frequently packs venues with thousands of people. He said he has the most supporters at his events followed by Democrat Bernie Sanders, who attracted 1,300 people in Dubuque on Friday.

 

In his 40-minute speech, Trump suggested the United States “is going to hell” and will be made better than ever before under his leadership. Trump said he would improve the country’s trade relations and rebuild the nation’s military.

 

“We’re losing with our trade,” he said, adding, “We’re going to win with our military and we’re going to win by a lot and hopefully we won’t have to use it a lot.”

 

There was a brief protest during the event, although the protesters’ objections could not be heard in the press corral as supporters loudly chanted “U.S.A.”
Trump instructed his security to eject the protesters.

 

“Get them out of there,” Trump said to wild cheers. “Let’s go… get ‘em out… Don’t hurt them, don’t hurt them.”

 

While the protesters were spared, Trump’s fellow Republican presidential candidates were not. Ted Cruz, who is nearest to Trump in the polls, received the sharpest criticism for being born in Canada, albeit to a mother of U.S. citizenship.

 

“He was not born on U.S. soil. It’s a problem,” Trump said. “How the hell can he run for president?”

[Special K]

Yeah, pretty much. 

 

I'm not quite sure what's worse:  a politician saying some things that aren't nice about minorities or a politician pretending like they care about minorities come election time.  

The problem that I see with Trump is not that he's simply, "saying some things that aren't nice about minorities."  

 

I think people need to look at the reasons he's saying what he is.  He is actively trying to stir up public distrust and anger toward certain racial and religious minorities so that he might build upon these emotions to garner support for his ideas.

 

Even scarier is that many of his ideas are not only insane, but unconstitutional.  This is what is so scary to me about Trump... 

[LadySkinsFan]

Well you all wouldn't include me, can't say I've ever listened....your fact checking starts with a bias and assumptions.

 

 

let me guess ...ya are voting for Hillary ?

 

you should go with Bernie, even he really doesn't want to be a Democrat.

 

Actually, I'm glad Bernie is in the race because he's pushing Hillary to the left.  I'm sick of the far right agenda of the Republicans and their platform, which favors corporations over actual human beings.

 

So the answer is YES I'm voting for Hillary. 

[Larry]

Probably trying to divert the discussion from the usual party-label talking points, but hey, I'll try.

There was a discussion a while back, about whether Cruz sponsored legislation to legalize illegal immigrants. I decided to go do some trivial-level research on the subject. Came across this FactCheck article, that seems to summarize things well.

FactCheck: Did Cruz Support Legalization?

 

Apparently, the time line looks like this: 

 

2013

 

The Senate is debating an immigration bill which would have legalized a lot of currently-illegal immigrants, and which would have given them an eventual path to citizenship.  (The bill was sponsored by Rubio and the rest of the "Gang of Eight".) 

 

Cruz proposes an amendment.  Cruz's amendment would have stripped out the path to citizenship, but would have left in the parts legalizing those currently-illegal immigrants. 

 

Cruz loudly campaigns for his amendment.  And specifically points out that his amendment would have left intact the part of the bill which legalizes the then-illegal immigrants. 

 

The amendment fails.  The proposal passes the Senate, with the legalization and the path to citizenship included.  It dies in the House. 

 

Dec 15, 2015.  Republican debate. 

 

Rubio states that he's puzzled by Cruz's attacks on him, for sponsoring said bill, because, Rubio points out, Cruz himself "supports legalizing people who are in this country illegally.". 

 

Cruz claims that he has never supported "amnesty". 

 

FactCheck checks this claim. 

 

Cruz's campaign now states that Cruz's enthusiastically proposing an amendment that intentionally let stand a legalization, was part of a clever plan to reveal how evil the Democrats were.  Supposedly, Cruz's plan was to prove that the Dems don't really care about legalization, that their real motive is to grant citizenship to millions of Democrat voters.  (He claims that, even if his amendment had been applied, he still would have opposed the law, and that the House would have still killed it.) 

 

Fact Check obviously cannot determine that Cruz's actual motives were, for the amendment which he proposed, and lobbied for.  (Although they did find interviews in which Cruz claimed that, if his amendment would have succeeded, he thinks the law would have passed.) 

 

What they can conclude that that they can't find anything where Cruz said his amendment was a trick that he didn't really support, prior to that debate.