KCClybun Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 So if he had his full deck of players this year, and we were a top ten D, which IMO we would be, what would your opinion of him be then? I don't think we'd be a top ten defense. I saw the way the defense crumbled in the last half of the season last year, just when the offense sort of started getting the ball rolling. I noticed the same bad decisions I do now; the lack of creative pressure packages, trying to utilize Cover 0 as a base defense (granted, it worked more last year than this year, but not a whole lot), his tendency to start playing off and soft after we got burnt on a big play, a lack of adjustments made in game situations. Then there was that whole "leaking all our offseason plans" thing, and London's apparent hesitance to re-sign with the team because of a strained relationship with Haz. And the hiccups and cracks I saw in the foundation in 2011 have shown up in spades this season. Injuries happen. The great coordinators, on offense and on defense, adjust. Before the bye, Haslett played a gutless style of defense, praying he wouldn't get beat and forcing his defense to do the one thing they aren't built to do; cover for extended periods of time in zone coverage. He's been better since the bye, but he still hasn't been that good. We outright whooped the Cowboys ass in the first half on Thanksgiving. Then we get late in the game and Tony and Dez made one play, and what happens? We play soft. We play zone. We play not to get beat. We play simple coverages, we play simple blitz concepts. And Romo sits to pee threw the Cowboys right back into the game. Versus the Giants, we started off the game passive; rush four or five, drop everyone else, pray we don't get beat. It took London firing up the troops and the linebackers basically begging Haz to bring the heat to turn that game around. Once again in the first half versus the Ravens, we played soft, we played not to get beat, and Joe Flacco lit the defense up. And once again with prodding from the players to turn it up, they played better in the second half. We played prevent defense versus Foles and the Eagles in the fourth quarter and they damn near came back to beat us if Foles puts the ball in a slightly better place for Maclin. Haz doesn't call defense with any confidence in his players, and so his players don't play with confidence until London or someone else on that defense fires them up. That's the sign of a bad coordinator. You don't have to be a rah-rah guy, you don't have to pat all your guys on the back, but players have to believe you're putting them in position to win. Players have spoken up numerous times about why they don't like running Cover 0. Particularly our guys in the secondary, who all do better when they know where their safety help is (or is supposed to be). And yet we still run it all the time. We've been burnt on 3rd and long by running Cover 0 several times, and yet Haslett still does it. The players don't believe their being put in position to make plays, and when you watch the tape, you see that they're not. They're not being properly prepared, the gameplans haven't been solid, and truth be told, the two better games Haz has called was against a rookie quarterback getting his first start on a team on the verge of an epic rebuilding process, and the ****ing Browns, who...well, are the Browns. If Haz somehow coordinated a Top 10 defense, I'd be shocked, but adequately satisfied. But he hasn't, so it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Why is Jim Haslett considered possible Head Coach for teams looking for better records, you are saying he has all pro players and does not know how to motivate them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I look at situations like Bob Sanders in Indy (good defense with him, terrible without him) and it doesn't surprise me how horribly they've played this year. Since the bye, we've been seeing guys like Jarvis Jenkins and Rob Jackson getting more comfortable and stepping up their game. I imagine rotational guys like Baker and Worthington are in the same boat. I don't think its a coincidence that guys like Fletcher, Cofield and Kerrigan all seem to be playing better of late. I think a similar trickle down effect would be seen were we to have starting caliber safeties. I don't know if Merriweather and Jackson were (or will be) those safeties, but the coaches seemed to think so. The shame about the injuries (etc.) is two-fold: we don't know what the defense would have looked like playing together; and we aren't likely to know the status of guys like Orakpo, Merriweather, Jackson (or even Minnifield and Bernstine) until after the draft and a good portion of our crippled FA period. I'm ambivalent towards Haslett for this reason. I've seem some good and some (okay, a lot) of bad, but the roster has had some real issues the past two years. I don't count the first season due to new scheme, staff and players (and he was handed a suspect roster with limited ability to change it). He brought in 4 new safeties this year and only one has seen the field. Tough to judge our secondary play in that scenario. I don't know if we were ranked 13th (we were middle of the pack at any rate) because of Haslett and the personell, or in spite of him. With the potential for improvement I see with all of these guys back next year, I'm ok with him returning. Honestly though, the deck may be stacked against him with so many of them questionable for next year. Not to mention some of the issues with Haslett outside of scheme/play-calling. I will say, I give the dude a bit of credit for some of the players we've acquired - the entire d-line (including the rotational guys), Kerrigan, Riley and Wilson. If we could just get our safeties sorted out I'd be pretty happy with this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 There are some people here that obviously have no idea about Hazletts' history as a DC. It's bad. He takes a top 5 defense in Pittsburg and turns it into a average one. He takes bad defenses and makes them worse. With everyone healthy, we would not have a top 10 defense this or any other year with him here. He isnt good. He's BAD. Let him go and get a "average" DC and we will see an improvement. ---------- Post added December-29th-2012 at 10:36 PM ---------- Why is Jim Haslett considered possible Coach for teams looking for better records, you are saying he has all pro players and doesnot know how to motivate them. The same reason Wade Phillips and Norv Turner have been HC multiple times and will probably get another shot, even though they SUCK at it. People are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 There are some people here that obviously have no idea about Hazletts' history as a DC. It's bad. He takes a top 5 defense in Pittsburg and turns it into a average one. He takes bad defenses and makes them worse. With everyone healthy, we would not have a top 10 defense this or any other year with him here. He isnt good. He's BAD. Let him go and get a "average" DC and we will see an improvement.---------- Post added December-29th-2012 at 10:36 PM ---------- The same reason Wade Phillips and Norv Turner have been HC multiple times and will probably get another shot, even though they SUCK at it. People are stupid. well he's obviously good enough to make 2nd half adjustments. the defense (along with the offense) has been one of the reasons we have had this 6 game winning streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Why is Jim Haslett considered possible Head Coach for teams looking for better records, you are saying he has all pro players and does not know how to motivate them? Who in his right mind will consider him? Some folks are at best Coordinators... Nervous Norv, Wade, Gailey, Garret... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Like I've already stated in this thread, I won't be disappointed if Has is gone. I think we can do better. But, what so many are overlooking here is what if Haslett is becoming a great coordinator right before our eyes? We've all seen some amazing half time adjustments as well as better overall game plans with him since the bye week. I know we were all super frustrated the first half of the season and I know he took forever to finally wake up... but, he did wake up, didn't he? It really is hard to look at how we've played defensively since the bye week and not be impressed overall. Sure, there are still problems, but we are working with a depleted secondary that was already an issue going into the season due to the cap penalty. Raheem Morris probably gets the most credit for that. London Fletcher is playing out of his mind since the bye week as well and he was having a down season before that, so that is also a big factor. Still, Has is letting the guys play to their strengths now which is what good defensive coordinators do. That was his biggest criticism, right? That he doesn't adjust and he doesn't let his players play to their strengths? He's doing that now... has he officially learned what it takes or not? I think that's the question Mike Shanahan has to answer this offseason. So, with that said, I want to leave you with some words from Chris Cooley today that were released that I think are pertinent to this discussion: It’s been a locker room and a staff that have kept working, kept believing in what they wanted to do and really played for each other and worked for each other. You see that with the players. You see that with the coaches. It’s been pretty cool for me to see a staff, guys like Kyle and Haz, put together game plans week after week after week for their players. That has to be hard for a coordinator to put all pride aside to say this is what I want but this is what my players do best and it’s pretty cool to see that effort from the staff and the players response has been terrific. This is the best that we’ve worked since I been here. ...... When we got here it was like we have to install a base game plan and that’s the way it’s always been. I don’t know if there was time to learn your players, learn the adjustments. We’ve made drastic adjustments to our offense and our defense. Watching what Haz has done throughout the year.. What those guys are doing is so impressive. Clearly, Cooley is talking more about Has here than Kyle even though he mentions them both. I think the last sentence makes that clear. Like I've said, I stand by my feelings towards Haslett. He's been average to bad wherever he's been and so we probably could do MUCH better. That being said, what if he's made a turnaround? What if we're at the point in his professional career where he just "gets it"? I don't think any of us can honestly answer that, and that's where this debate here gets stuck. I have full faith in Mike Shanahan's ability to assess that moving forward. Yes, his recent history with defensive coordinators hasn't been good but he clearly has changed his ways since coming here by keeping Haslett this long. Had Has came on with him in Denver he would've fired him already. He's given Haslett all the time he needs to develop this 3-4 defense, depleted secondary or not, and it looks like right now he's doing his best coaching job. That being said, it may be more Raheem than anything else... so I guess we'll find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyst21 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Wanna get this in before the game tonight. Regardless of the outcome, I personally do not want him back. Every team has injuries. That's no excuse to put out one of the worst defenses in the history of the NFL. Have we gotten better? We win because of our offense. We couldn't stop the cowboys late on thanksgiving. Couldn't stop eagles last week and got lucky with the 10 second runoff ending the game. Hasslett is the least of the reasons we're winning the division after sweeping since the bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 well he's obviously good enough to make 2nd half adjustments. the defense (along with the offense) has been one of the reasons we have had this 6 game winning streak. Tell me this, what coach at an college or NFL level is NOT able to make any adjustments? That's kinda like saying because someone has the ability to walk they can run 4.5 40. Any coach that is at a major college level should have the abilty to do that, much less at the pro level. And yet that is apparently good enough. Sorry, "bad" isnt good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyst21 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 This should've been a poll. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I never wanted him gone. Need more talent on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 The only thing I don't like about this discussion is how willing some of us are to lessen or demean the coaching jobs done by all of our defensive coaches after the bye week in an attempt to justify wanting Haslett gone. We can appreciate and acknowledge how well they've been working together considering just how depleted our secondary is as well as missing our best pass rusher while still be against keeping Haslett. As many have already stated in this thread, if there is a better coordinator out there, either within our staff or outside, we should make the move. This discussion should focus on who those guys are and why more than whether or not Haslett has been involved in this turnaround (or how much) or even if we can consider it a turnaround (which I think it's crazy not to, but I digress). The former debate includes very little other than speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Tomb Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 We all saw what a talented safety did for our defense during the first Eagles meeting. Give Has one more year with a talented tandem at safety and let's see what happens :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluadan Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 After tonight's game, what Haslett has done with the players he has, he isn't going anywhere. It may have taken some time, but things are really coming together. Just wait until we actually have 11 starters and not half backups playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Haslett was brilliant tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Were you a Redskin fan when we had the Spurrier Crew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plunk Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I want him back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cakmoney61 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 He may be the man for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 SAY SOMETHING BOUT THE COVER 0 AGAIN, SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HASLETT AGAIN. I DARE YA, I DOUBLE DOG DARE YA /Samuel L Jackson voice R Jackson's first sentence when asked about his int. "first I'd like to say coach made a great call" Hasletts defensive play-calling last night was poetry in motion. This team sees some weakness Romo sits to pee has v the cover 0. The difference is this year the blitzes are getting to Romo sits to pee. Along with hall and Morris, both coordinators deserve a game ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Who'd of thunk it... that was a heck of a defensive effort. He may be changing my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Maybe he and Raheem make an awesome team. I'm thinking (read: hoping/pulling this out of my ass) that he was intimidated by Morris coming in, but as things went to ****, he either got a pat on the shoulder at the right time or just gave Morris a chance, and now it's working. Please just have a defensive offseason. DB, DB, DB, DB, DB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I think he's definitely earned another year here for sure. While we definitely need some talent in the backend, the gameplans he has put together have been phenomenal. I don't know where this Haslett has been all year long, but I like him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhouse Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 One thing about this defense, they HIT. They play to the whistle, they rush to the ball, tackle well and HIT really hard. They make sure their presence his felt. We punch teams in the mouth and it's a good attitude against Seattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I think even LL56 will have trouble denying Haslett's return next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinz4Life12 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 i was all about firing Haslett earlier in the season but now I'm thinking he may be the man for the job. Seeing the turnaround he has produced with all the injuries makes me confident in his abilities moving forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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