armstrong001 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 There is certainly a dearth of talent on the defense at quite a few places, which both Shanahan and Haslett should be held responsible for. Really? They are responsible for Orakpo, Carriker, and Meriweather being out for almost the entire year, and Tannard Jackson and now Cedric Griffin being suspended? They're responsible for not having the extra money to strenghten the secondary? That's almost half the starting defense gone. Most of if for the majority of the year. I'm not sure how one could expect more than what has happened, struggle to improve with a makeshift defense, keep the team in the game, make one or two key stops a game, and basically hold on. Not sure what else they could have done to improve the talent level this year... ETA: If they don't add talent over the offseason, then yes it's time to start spreading the blame around. But the talent level pre-injuries and suspensions wasn't that bad. While this might never have been a top 5 defensive team, I think middle of the pack was realistic. And middle of the pack might have gotten us a couple more wins and looking at a first round bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGriffin Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 He has done a soild job no doubt but he does not strike me as innovative NOR a leader of men. You need one of the other to be a successful coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I seriously think his future depends on whether or not we have a chance at Romeo Crennel. In that case, I'll just keep ole Jim. What has Romeo done ever since leaving New England? He has plenty of talent on defense in KC and they are pretty abymal. The idea that he is a quality coach in a 3-4 is a myth. He is still getting jobs due to the 2001-04 Patriots seasons which is baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 In that case, I'll just keep ole Jim. What has Romeo done ever since leaving New England? He has plenty of talent on defense in KC and they are pretty abymal. The idea that he is a quality coach in a 3-4 is a myth. He is still getting jobs due to the 2001-04 Patriots seasons which is baffling. Crennel is better suited to be a DC than a head man IMO so judging his ranks with kansas city are not going to be helpful. He reminds me of Wade Phillips, or Norv turner, just better suited to be masters of what they are good at, not necessarily coaching the entire team. That said, I have mixed emotions about haslett. Id probably bring him back depending on who is available. Certainly some team will blow up their entire squad, and some decent DC will be available, so I guess we will just have to wait and see if upgrading is even an option. I have a feeling he will be back, though, considering the turnaround despite a lack of any depth in the secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Really? They are responsible for Orakpo, Carriker, and Meriweather being out for almost the entire year, and Tannard Jackson and now Cedric Griffin being suspended? They're responsible for not having the extra money to strenghten the secondary? That's almost half the starting defense gone. Most of if for the majority of the year. I'm not sure how one could expect more than what has happened, struggle to improve with a makeshift defense, keep the team in the game, make one or two key stops a game, and basically hold on. Not sure what else they could have done to improve the talent level this year... The secondary situation has been a problem the whole time Shanahan has been here, and we've been depending on guys off of the trash heap to come in and do the job. Josh Wilson was a nickel back his whole career before coming here and probably should go back to doing that. Griffin did play better toward the end, but I was never impressed by him. Merriweather was benched at his last stop, and Jackson was a suspension waiting to happen. I understand some of the issues the team has had, but that doesn't mean the people responsible for the decisions shouldn't be accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrong001 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 The secondary situation has been a problem the whole time Shanahan has been here, and we've been depending on guys off of the trash heap to come in and do the job. Josh Wilson was a nickel back his whole career before coming here and probably should go back to doing that. Griffin did play better toward the end, but I was never impressed by him. Merriweather was benched at his last stop, and Jackson was a suspension waiting to happen.I understand some of the issues the team has had, but that doesn't mean the people responsible for the decisions shouldn't be accountable. Perhaps the reason they were still using "trash heap" players this year is lack of money due to their fines? I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me like the secondary was going to be a point of emphasis in free agency, and the team got cut off at the knees before they could address the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Crennel is better suited to be a DC than a head man IMO so judging his ranks with kansas city are not going to be helpful. He reminds me of Wade Phillips, or Norv turner, just better suited to be masters of what they are good at, not necessarily coaching the entire team.That said, I have mixed emotions about haslett. Id probably bring him back depending on who is available. Certainly some team will blow up their entire squad, and some decent DC will be available, so I guess we will just have to wait and see if upgrading is even an option. I have a feeling he will be back, though, considering the turnaround despite a lack of any depth in the secondary. He was the DC for the Chiefs since 2010(so 1.5 years) and I don't recall anything wonderful going on there except suspect defensive player drafting outside of Eric Berry. Prior to that he was head coach of the Browns for 3 years. I just don't see anything different with him than I do Haslett outside of "being a 3-4 guy." And I can't stand Haslett but I don't see Romeo being much of an upgrade. He has 0 success anywhere since he left NE to speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradboyd80 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I'd still like to see us go after Rex Ryan. Even if only for one year just to see what he can do. It could be the same result as Wade Phillips; terrible HC, but a better coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Year_of_The_Monk Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 For the job that Haz has (lol) done with this team, of course he should be back. The ability to go in at half time and make adjustments to change the outcome of the game is priceless. The amt of turnovers that we are getting this year is exactly what we wanted when we switched to the 3-4. If we had our studs out there, I think our D would have been that much better but for what he has had to work with. I give a Steve Austin "HAIL YEA" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doghouse4x4 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Short of Wade Phillips or Rex Ryan, I can't see anyone upgrading Haslett. He's not going to give you as much upside, but he can get a lot more out of lower talent than most. With some secondary help, he can field a pretty serviceable defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doghouse4x4 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Short of Wade Phillips or Rex Ryan, I can't see anyone upgrading Haslett. He's not going to give you as much upside, but he can get a lot more out of lower talent than most. With some secondary help, he can field a pretty serviceable defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Your points lead right into my point of view. Do we have ANY of the playmakers that the Steelers had in the past 5 years (not counting this year)? Do we have a Polamalu? A Harrison? A Timmons? A Hampton? A Keisal? Or even a Clark? No. We simply do not have the talent to play an aggressive Pittsburgh style defense. We do not have the linebackers that can pass rush and cover as well and we certainly do not have the safeties to cover deep or double cover receivers. Do we need All-Pro players to run an aggressive defense? If Harrison and Woodley are a 92/100 each, then Orakpo and Kerrigan are an 86 each at worst. Also Harrison has fallen off a cliff this year and they're still decent. If Hampton is a 95 as a NT, then Cofield is an 83-85. Fletcher was way better than Timmons last year, and is probably playing at least as well this year as he has rebounded from his initial slump. Riley is playing at a high level. Bowen is as good if not better than Keisel. The Steelers have averageish corners just like we do. Seriously, the whole Haslett defense centering around "we have noooo talent" is so ridiculous. We have talent, it's just being misused. Doesn't matter if we do not have Dick LeBeau. Even LeBeau cannot scheme with players who are not capable of doing multiple things well and can cover receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Seriously, the whole Haslett defense centering around "we have noooo talent" is so ridiculous. We have talent, it's just being misused. Couldn't agree more... I wish more fans had the opportunity of watching games in person. His schemes are bad. Without pressure via the blitz we are toast. I was so disgusted with the Eagles game, I almost had a heart attack. They better junk the Eagles Defensive Game plan. We got extremely lucky... it reminded me of the second half of the Thanksgiving game. ---------- Post added December-28th-2012 at 07:49 PM ---------- As Kyle has shown, you're only as good as your players.... Not true, Kyle's offense even with Turn Over machine, Sexy Rexy was good... folks got open regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Ok...real quick, compare Palimalu and Clark to Williams and Doughty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Ok...real quick, compare Palimalu and Clark to Williams and Doughty. Easiest question I've been asked in quite some time. I have no idea who Palimalu is and Ryan Clark is a former Redskins who by virtue he doesn't count. That means Williams and Doughty are better. Boom. I have spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Ok...real quick, compare Palimalu and Clark to Williams and Doughty.Add that to playing without Orakpo and Kerrigan for most of the season, in addition to a banged up Fletcher and playing without a 3rd CB/NB for most of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Ok...real quick, compare Palimalu and Clark to Williams and Doughty. Madieu is better playing close to the line of scrimmage. He is HORRENDOUS in coverage. He lacks range and when opposing QBs sense that he is the one playing deep safety are encouraged to go deep. His ball sense is below average his reaction time is bad... The thing I like is that they are putting other parts in at deep safety. But it was Haz and co that choose Madieu. Funny thing, fans were saying the same thing about BB until the coaches finally sacked up and benched him. I rather have Doughty back there. He does not make mental errors... his limitation is based on his talent level (athletic ability). You can't call 2 deep zone with safeties that don't have the range. ---------- Post added December-28th-2012 at 08:14 PM ---------- Add that to playing without Orakpo and Kerrigan for most of the season, in addition to a banged up Fletcher and playing without a 3rd CB/NB for most of the season. I guess you did not watch last season games either? You forgot how bad we were on 3rd and longs last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Easiest question I've been asked in quite some time. I have no idea who Palimalu is and Ryan Clark is a former Redskins who by virtue he doesn't count. That means Williams and Doughty are better. Boom. I have spoken. +, when Clark was here, he was doing the same thing Williams is doing now; biting HARD on play action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 We don't have a cover safety, let alone a great one. We have good safeties against the run. IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I just don't know about Has. But as for our players, I would like to go ahead and just copy Pete Carrol (he's copying our offense anyway ), and get some big/tall DBs. I ate a little crow to my Seahawks buddies about how Carrol is being simple minded and dumb to just field a bunch of tall guys, just to have tall guys. But it works. Sure, maybe they're just better players, but what you notice, and what's said about the Seahawks is how imposing and rough the guys are. They have long arms and just envelop guys during catches. They're very sure tacklers. I'll take a couple penalties with that playstyle, we get enough bull**** ones trying to do the right thing anyway. I want that. I want Seattle's secondary. Did you know our tallest DB is Reed Doughty? lol at 6'-1, along with Madoodoo but forget madoodoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I guess you did not watch last season games either? You forgot how bad we were on 3rd and longs last year?Sure I watched last year when the defense was ranked 13th. But, I'm talking about this season though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 We had lousy safties last year too. Remember Williams and Doughty are safties three and five on the depth chart. Most teams would have trouble with their entire back up safties for a game or two. We have had our entire back up safety crew for 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINSFAN87 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I would still part ways cuz I don't see him as a motivational coach and I don't think that he has much to do with the six game win streak as the offense is what's carrying this team. I would like to see someone who has more fire and can actually call good defensive plays on a consistent basis. Haslett at times has called the right plays, but he isn't consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 This is incredible. I can't remember the amount of times threads have been started talking about what a horrible job Kyle Shanahan was doing over the last three years, and even now, people have said "Pfft, who needs Kyle, we've got RG3, let him walk, we don't need him". And quite a few people defiantly stated that injuries and bad personnel and bad quarterbacks didn't matter, Kyle wasn't getting the job done, and that he was only here because of his last name. If Kyle let a slightly more smelly than usual far rip and it moderately annoyed RG3, there would be a 20 page long thread about why he should be fired for it. And yet in three years, with a lot of money and draft picks poured into the defense, with total autonomy over that defense in terms of what talent stays and goes, and producing a defense that ranked in the bottom half of the league for three years, and only producing a defense that ranked in the top half of the league 3 times (and even then, the Steelers defense wasn't as good as it had been before or after he became DC), people still want to give Haslett the benefit of the doubt, because his defense, while still sucking, hasn't sucked quite as bad. In fact, somehow, some way, this is really all Mike Shanahan's fault, because he knows how much control Haslett really has over his defense. And why isn't Raheem getting more blame! Seems like more people want to blame just about every other coach and player on the staff besides Haslett for sucking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 So if he had his full deck of players this year, and we were a top ten D, which IMO we would be, what would your opinion of him be then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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