Election 2012- Post Mortem

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Would a public option that is available to people in general that is not tied to employment/employers help you out? You'd be out of the business of providing health insurance policies for your employees, they could sign up for the public option.

Give it up.

The sad fact is - many otherwise reasonable and rational business owners are wingnuts. 30 years of far-right propaganda filtered through "business publications" like Forbes and such have convinced them they're John Galt. So no matter how much a government regulation or program might help them, the lizard brain response just sees "dang gubmint reguluasions killing muh buziness, they killing the jerb creators".

It's like how college educated people can believe in Creationism and such, it's just an ideological blind spot.

Also fun fact, deficits don't matter unless your economy is less productive. A lot of successful businesses run on credit lines, not on cash reserves, because the bank knows they'll be productive enough to continually adhere to their obligations. So really, it matters what kind of deficits you run. Running deficits for wars for oil and massive tax cuts that do NOT help the economy? Bad. Running deficits to rebuild infrastructure and invest in R&D? Good.

[SnyderShrugged]

So, your first question is "How can you say insurance rates would have risen without Obama?"

(I will observe that the obvious answer is "100 years of history?")

And your second is "Insurance rates always go up"?

Is it really necessary for me to point out that you've answered your own question?

---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 10:57 AM ----------

Right.

The Republicans lost because they didn't go extreme right wing enough.

Please keep insisting on that.

I have no idea what orifice you pulled that from, but I didnt say that at all.

Simply put, if they had respected those of my ilk, even a little, they would have had many, many more votes. This would be true if zero of RP's ideas were adopted in full.

Please at least try to stay a little within the boundaries of what is actual said next time, it saves a great deal of time typing.

[Larry]

Republican strategy for the past four years has been simple: disenfranchisement. Is that really going to be their strategy going forward?

They lost the black vote 95-5.

They lost the Latino vote 7-3.

They lost the single woman vote 6-4.

They lost the under 30 vote 6-4.

So' date=' instead of courting these voters....they are going to try to keep them from voting? How this a viable strategy?[/quote']

Disenfranchising people has been part of their plan for over a decade. And every election they become more obvious about it.

And it hasn't cost them, yet. A good 45% of the country is perfectly willing to endorse it (when their side does it).

They're going to keep doing it, more and more, and more and more obviously, until they find out where the line is that, if they go past the line, it costs them.

(And this election very clearly says that they haven't got there, yet.)

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I have no idea what orifice you pulled that from, but I didnt say that at all.

Simply put, if they had respected those of my ilk, even a little, they would have had many, many more votes. This would be true if zero of RP's ideas were adopted in full.

Please at least try to stay a little within the boundaries of what is actual said next time, it saves a great deal of time typing.

Ron Paul would never have endorsed Romney, and Ron Paul voters would never have voted for Romney en mass, certainly not enough to take any swing states. Hell, I could see Ron Paul libertarians swing towards Obama, not Romney because of Romney's rigid hawkishness on Iran.

So, instead of courting these voters....they are going to try to keep them from voting? How this a viable strategy?

They can't win those voters. Those are the most fiscally liberal segments of the electorate, and reaching out to them would alienate the base.

Again, people are really underestimating how liberal blacks, Latinos, and ESPECIALLY Millenials are. Boomers fueled the Republican ascendancy from 1972-2008, Millenials are nearly as big, and every bit as liberal as the Boomers (the 20% of so of vocal hippies excepted) are conservative.

[afkidd]

30 years of far-right propaganda filtered through "business publications" like Forbes and such have convinced them they're John Galt. So no matter how much a government regulation or program might help them, the lizard brain response just sees "dang gubmint reguluasions killing muh buziness, they killing the jerb creators".

DEY TEWK OUR JERBS!!! pissing me off...

[John224]

That's not what I said and you know it.

The black vote was not as high during past democratic nominees as they are now for a black one.

[SnyderShrugged]

Ron Paul would never have endorsed Romney, and Ron Paul voters would never have voted for Romney en mass, certainly not enough to take any swing states. Hell, I could see Ron Paul libertarians swing towards Obama, not Romney because of Romney's rigid hawkishness on Iran.

The numerous delegates at the convention disagree. If only their rightful, and legally gained delegate spots were respected. Yes, many wouldnt have supported him regardless, but many would have supported as well under different circumstances

[Larry]

Likewiser, the Republican even failed to heed the messages of their own past when G. H. Bush failed to present "the vision thing."

Romney did not present a vision to the country. Sure, he said he wanted things better and wanted to create jobs, but there was no substance, no vision, nothing that the American public could glom onto other than ABO (anyone, but Obama). In fact, I would argue that Romney largely lost because he only wanted to make this about Obama.

I would disagree quite a bit.

Romney did present a pretty clear of what he wanted, at least as far as spending/taxation/economy.

His vision was "Double Down on Trickle Down":

• Pass a big tax cut. (Mostly on The Rich).
  
• Big increase in military spending. (With really no reason for it.)
  
• Repeal a bunch of rules that Big Business doesn't like.
  
• When the deficit goes up, act surprised, and insist that cutting taxes and increasing spending had nothing to do with it.
  
• Assume that the economy will grow. (After all, it almost always does).
  
• If [when] it does grow, claim that my tax cut caused 100% of it.

My feeling is that part of why he lost was the "We've been doing that for 30 years, and it doesn't work" effect.

(But then, I am often guilty of over-estimating the intelligence of the electorate.)

[zCommander]

This is what I don't understand about Replublicans and Democrats? The both of you are so busy fighting with one another that you've simply lose sight of anything important. Work together and get this thing figured out, my god you both are so stubborn.

Have you ever watched two kids fight over the same toy but yet don't realize they can play together instead.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

The numerous delegates at the convention disagree. If only their rightful, and legally gained delegate spots were respected. Yes, many wouldnt have supported him regardless, but many would have supported as well under different circumstances

So wait, Ron Paul libertarians are going to vote for a warmongering neo-con who wants to bomb Iran, opposes drug legalization, is far right on most social issues, and is presumably pro-Fed? Just to beat Obama?

You'd be lucky to get 5-10% of Ron Paul voters into the fold unless Romney publicly ripped up the GOP platform and replaced it with Paul's.

[RVAbrendan]

That's not what I said and you know it.

The black vote was not as high during past democratic nominees as they are now for a black one.

Should we just tell them NOT to vote?

[brandymac27]

That's not what I said and you know it.

The black vote was not as high during past democratic nominees as they are now for a black one.

Just out of curiosity....what do you think the reasons for this are?

[The 12th Commandment]

Just out of curiosity....what do you think the reasons for this are?

Good question. I might add what he thinks we should do about this supposed racism.

[Burgold]

Can't answer for him, but I think a big part of it is that the GOP's suppression efforts backfired. The Republicans were way too obvious in trying to reduce voter turnout even more or less trumpeting that their lawa would kill the dems.

Well, I think that stirred people up. Some people, maybe a lot of people, who wouldn't vote because they felt dispirited decided to vote because someone was suddenly attacking their right to.

[RedskinFeathers]

I hate the way Republicans campaign. I just don't understand it. They need serious PR help...I'll be there in January, guys, do not fret.

Also, why is there a stupid rumor that absentee ballots are not counted unless the race is close? I heard that from like 10 people last night and checked it out on the MD State Board of Elections website and all those people were wrong. I would have been pissed. My vote would not have changed any of the results, but I would be pissed even if I hadn't counted for the losing side....

[DjTj]

Is it okay for me to call the blacks who vote for Obama racist?

There is no courting the blacks away from Obama, most voted because he was black. Yes, you will disagree of course, but you know deep down I am right.

They are just as racist as Mormons who drove record turnout in Utah yesterday.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/55201695-90/percent-election-turnout-utah.html.csp

I don't think it is racist to have pride in one of your own, and to believe that he is more likely to understand you and share your values. Blacks turned out in large numbers for Obama. Mormons turned out in large numbers for Romney. It is part of human nature to connect with and support those that share your background. Voting against someone for their race is racist, but voting for someone because their race or religion represents a shared heritage is perfectly reasonable.

[Kosher Ham]

That's not what I said and you know it.

The black vote was not as high during past democratic nominees as they are now for a black one.

Nor was the hispanic vote from what I hear. Considering how many are Catholic...

I love how you are trying to call the blacks racist in this instance. Mainly because it was shown that Romney needed over 75% of the white vote to win. He isn't getting those either.

Have you ever looked at the racial percentages in this Country ?

Perhpas you should take a close look at the younger white votes, and the female votes. That should tell you all you need to know about the election.

[alexey]

I agree with Larry in that even though there are some similarities between both parties, there are also important differences between them.

They use different scare tactics, for example. Democrats scare people with failing social safety nets and environmental problems. GOP scares people with socialism, communism, and totalitarianism.

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

NSFW NSFW NSFW NSFW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLoqti0lzAw&t=3m47s

[Kosher Ham]

http://s3.sidereel.com/episodes/114999/featured/179559.jpg

Okay that's funny.

I feel like she might be a crazy cat lady.

Wow.

[SnyderShrugged]

So wait, Ron Paul libertarians are going to vote for a warmongering neo-con who wants to bomb Iran, opposes drug legalization, is far right on most social issues, and is presumably pro-Fed? Just to beat Obama?

You'd be lucky to get 5-10% of Ron Paul voters into the fold unless Romney publicly ripped up the GOP platform and replaced it with Paul's.

You assume too much. There are thousands of pragmatic Paul supporters who understand the value of meeting in the middle on some things. Yes, some platform additions/changes would have been expected, but they didnt have to be wholesale, they could have been steps in the right direction at least and still gained some votes.

Are you a Paul supporter?

[greenspandan]

They need to change because the demographics are rapidly shifting against them. They are getting destroyed by the minority vote and the majority of the younger generation has voted for the Democrats in the past 3 Presidential elections.

particularly if the GOP continues to insist that minorities only vote for Democrats because they are lazy and looking for a handout. it's insulting and racist and not making them any friends.

[Mad Mike]

I haven't felt this sence of impending doom since The Peanut Farmer was elected, My small business has struggled to provide health care & can't afford Osama Care. After 11.5 years I'll probably have to relocate & seek employment else where I don't look forward to 12/21/12 God help us all

Do you have under 50 employees? Then you dont have to "afford" anything. :doh:

Dear god, the level of mis-information from the right is just insane.

http://www.healthcare.gov/news/factsheets/2011/08/small-business.html

Top Things to Know for Small Businesses

If you have up to 25 employees, pay average annual wages below $50,000, and provide health insurance, you may qualify for a small business tax credit of up to 35% (up to 25% for non-profits) to offset the cost of your insurance. This will bring down the cost of providing insurance.

Under the health care law, employer-based plans that provide health insurance to retirees ages 55-64 can now get financial help through the Early Retiree Reinsurance Program. This program is designed to lower the cost of premiums for all employees and reduce employer health costs.

Starting in 2014, the small business tax credit goes up to 50% (up to 35% for non-profits) for qualifying businesses. This will make the cost of providing insurance even lower.

In 2014, small businesses with generally fewer than 100 employees can shop in an Affordable Insurance Exchange, which gives you power similar to what large businesses have to get better choices and lower prices. An Exchange is a new marketplace where individuals and small businesses can buy affordable health benefit plans.

Exchanges will offer a choice of plans that meet certain benefits and cost standards. Starting in 2014, members of Congress will be getting their health care insurance through Exchanges, and you will be able to buy your insurance through Exchanges, too.

Employers with fewer than 50 employees are exempt from new employer responsibility policies. They don’t have to pay an assessment if their employees get tax credits through an Exchange.

Oh, and "Osama" care? What are you, 12 years old? :doh:

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

You assume too much. There are thousands of pragmatic Paul supporters who understand the value of meeting in the middle on some things. Yes, some platform additions/changes would have been expected, but they didnt have to be wholesale, they could have been steps in the right direction at least and still gained some votes.

Are you a Paul supporter?

Used to be when I was younger, but I realized that libertarianism is a historically bad governing philosophy for the vast majority of people. But I know what libertarians, particularly hardcore libertarians, believe and they would not get behind Romney. Not in enough numbers to swing the election. Obama won Ohio by about 300,000 votes. Are you telling me there are 300,000 Ron Paul supporters or sympathizers in Ohio that would have swung it to Romney? Or in Nevada? Or in New Mexico?

I think the only chance they could pull it off is if the GOP adopted the Green Party's foreign policy and ran far to the "left" to Obama on war and civil liberties.

[FanboyOf91]

Thank God we get to avoid Californication for two more years.