SnyderShrugged Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Am I still allowed to do QFT? Just for my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'll be straight forward and honest and preface my statements with this: I'm political stupid. I admit that. I'm willing to be told, by either side, that I'm a complete moron, as long as it's explained why.Larry, I don't always agree with your political stances (and for that matter I don't always agree with Kilmer's, either ) but, I'd like to ask you guys a question. It's not sarcastic, it's not tongue in cheek, there is no hidden meaning. It's a real question: Isn't the information you posted above the reason why this country has some struggles? I'm not interested in hearing anything about the Republicans or the Democrats being the devil, either. I think both parties are at fault for the state of our country, regardless of who's in office. They stand off to the point where it's childish and it hurts our country. It's embarassing that this system divides us so much. How do you (and kilmer) and anyone else for that matter actually feel about the party system? Do you think its best for us as a nation? Essentially nothing changed. We will have the same stalemate for the next two years and that's a shame. We really need to tackle campaign finance reform and do something about the pull corporations have over our government. But how? The only I hope is that the GOP understands that their fate lat nig was tied to their political games they've been playing. Honestly the GOP didn't lose anything for playing those games so the chance of them waking up is slim. ---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 09:59 AM ---------- Just for my posts. Didn't Romney and Paul have a good relationship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Kind of want to give this its own thread, but I'll resist :halo: The Republicans failed to learn from history. In 2004, the Democrats tried to run an ABB (anybody, but Bush) strategy and failed. John Kerry was not a well-loved candidate in his party and really set a campaign that was more about getting rid of G. W. Bush than it was what needed to be done for the United States. Likewiser, the Republican even failed to heed the messages of their own past when G. H. Bush failed to present "the vision thing." Romney did not present a vision to the country. Sure, he said he wanted things better and wanted to create jobs, but there was no substance, no vision, nothing that the American public could glom onto other than ABO (anyone, but Obama). In fact, I would argue that Romney largely lost because he only wanted to make this about Obama. The former governor and his GOP fellows were so certain that the American public would reject President Obama and his policies that they became deathly afraid of offering any detail whatsoever. That was their undoing. They gave no one a reason to vote for Romney only reasons to vote against Obama. The incredible lack of details in Romney's plans. The absolute refusal to explain a single how even in the vaguest forms made him look like an emperor with no clothes. Couple that with a candidate who was such an entirely different person, with entirely different rhetoric in the primaries, on the stump, and in the debates that Governor Romney became a questionmark in every battleground state. He became such a question that it overwhelmed the prevailing unemployment and other economic issues that beset the nation. In the end, Americans said they wanted meat and potatos, but all Mitt Romney offered was meringue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Essentially nothing changed. We will have the same stalemate for the next two years and that's a shame. We really need to tackle campaign finance reform and do something about the pull corporations have over our government. But how? The only I hope is that the GOP understands that their fate lat nig was tied to their political games they've been playing. Honestly the GOP didn't lose anything for playing those games so the chance of them waking up is slim. ---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 09:59 AM ---------- Didn't Romney and Paul have a good relationship? They kept things cordial throughout the primary season (as compared to the relationships between the other GOP candidates at least), But the Romney camp had to go along with the GOP establishment and change rules to go out of their way to disenfranchise RP delegates who legally won their slots. That ended any warm fuzzy's that were even possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodriggo Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 but all Mitt Romney offered was meringue. Solid post. Has anyone had fresh meringue? Crunchy on the outside, warm and chewy on the inside? Really, really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 My blood boils when I revisit that youtube. How can anyone question why any of us didnt vote GOP? Because they expect us to be good little conservatives and fall in line, even when we're not heard. I'm done with the Republican Party. It's obvious that it doesn't stand for what it claims it stands for: small government, fiscal responsibility and *inclusion*. The GOP was once the big tent party. Now, that tent is only big enough to hold the far-right wing. I'm a Republican in exile. This party has abandoned us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monte51Coleman Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Allen West losing might be my favorite part of the night. Fox announcing The Allen West Show in 3-2-1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John224 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 He wont be, that's how the democrat's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Because they expect us to be good little conservatives and fall in line, even when we're not heard. I'm done with the Republican Party. It's obvious that it doesn't stand for what it claims it stands for: small government, fiscal responsibility and *inclusion*. The GOP was once the big tent party. Now, that tent is only big enough to hold the far-right wing. I'm a Republican in exile. This party has abandoned us. I have to say having heard all three third party debates there was an interesting candor that was greatly missing in this year's race. Didn't agree with some positions, but found myself liking others. It was a more lively and possibly honest debate... mixed with occassional bouts of crazy, but not as much as one might fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John224 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Is it okay for me to call the blacks who vote for Obama racist? There is no courting the blacks away from Obama, most voted because he was black. Yes, you will disagree of course, but you know deep down I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Is it okay for me to call the blacks who vote for Obama racist? There is no courting the blacks away from Obama, most voted because he was black. Yes, you will disagree of course, but you know deep down I am right. Yes it is racist. 88% of African-Americans voted for John Kerry in 2004. So... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John224 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Wouldn't have been nice if one of the candidates said the word lobbyist or inflation just once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Is it okay for me to call the blacks who vote for Obama racist? There is no courting the blacks away from Obama, most voted because he was black. Yes, you will disagree of course, but you know deep down I am right. Well out here in the provinces is it fair to call the white, protestant voters who didn't vote for Romney because of his faith anything unflattering? Short answer, no it's not. Because Obama clearly represents their interest better than Romney did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John224 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If that is the case then why did the number of black voters suddenly explode right around the same time the first black candidate was nominated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodriggo Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Is it okay for me to call the blacks who vote for Obama racist? There is no courting the blacks away from Obama, most voted because he was black. Yes, you will disagree of course, but you know deep down I am right. By actually governing to that populace they can. Lying to their face and simply not giving a **** about them and other minorities for decades on end doesn't produce the desired result. To your point, delegitimizing their vote as wholly and purely race based isn't a good start. A working class, middle class white voter voting against their interests, against the candidate that is trying to help him/her out would be a different story all together for instance. Probably just a religious/cultural difference, probably .....Let's take a look at Dixie.....good god, shocker.....so Mississippi DIDN'T vote for Obama? Huh, wow, did not see that one coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Because they feel a that it is good for the country to have a black president (who is also qualified). And maybe they feel he represents them and understands them. And I agree. And that's not racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If that is the case then why did the number of black voters suddenly explode right around the same time the first black candidate was nominated? Are you saying that since the Civil Rights era began that blacks haven't been voting dem in large majorities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If that is the case then why did the number of black voters suddenly explode right around the same time the first black candidate was nominated? Who doesn't think one of their own represents their interest better than somebody who isn't? After 170 years of thinking they had no chance they discovered they suddenly had a franchise. How could that NOT result in more voting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I haven't felt this sence of impending doom since The Peanut Farmer was elected, My small business has struggled to provide health care & can't afford Osama Care. After 11.5 years I'll probably have to relocate & seek employment else where I don't look forward to 12/21/12 God help us all Would a public option that is available to people in general that is not tied to employment/employers help you out? You'd be out of the business of providing health insurance policies for your employees, they could sign up for the public option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Is it okay for me to call the blacks who vote for Obama racist? There is no courting the blacks away from Obama, most voted because he was black. Yes, you will disagree of course, but you know deep down I am right. No. You are full of **** because blacks dominantly voted for Al Gore and John Kerry. And Democrats in general. This pathetic ideology adopted by the Republican Party will do nothing but harm to them moving forward. Stop targeting the intelligence of minorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If that is the case then why did the number of black voters suddenly explode right around the same time the first black candidate was nominated? Umm they've been historically democrat for the past few decades. Where have you been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I'll be straight forward and honest and preface my statements with this: I'm political stupid. I admit that. I'm willing to be told, by either side, that I'm a complete moron, as long as it's explained why.Larry, I don't always agree with your political stances (and for that matter I don't always agree with Kilmer's, either ) but, I'd like to ask you guys a question. It's not sarcastic, it's not tongue in cheek, there is no hidden meaning. It's a real question: Isn't the information you posted above the reason why this country has some struggles? I'm not interested in hearing anything about the Republicans or the Democrats being the devil, either. I think both parties are at fault for the state of our country, regardless of who's in office. They stand off to the point where it's childish and it hurts our country. It's embarassing that this system divides us so much. How do you (and kilmer) and anyone else for that matter actually feel about the party system? Do you think its best for us as a nation? I'm going to respond, because you mentioned me by name. But I have to admit that I'm not sure what your question is, so my response may not get at whatever you're looking for. Frankly? I think that part of the problem with our current political climate, is this "They're both the same" meme. No, they aren't. Yes, the financial deregulation that was probably the primary cause of the latest recession, was done by both D and R. But no, it wasn't equal. Yes, both Parties want to win elections. But only one of them has been engaged in a deliberate, organized, professionally-managed program of suppressing the votes of people who don't vote for them. Yes, both Parties play political games with legislation that's important to the nation. But one of them plays "I want a million or so of the money to be earmarked for my district" games. And one of them plays "My entire Party will filibuster this entire bill unless we get a Constitutional Amendment passed, first" games. Yes, both parties spin the truth. But only one lives their lives in a completely separate, alternate, reality. One side is willing to compromise, on the deficit. One side is not. In fact, one side has made it very clear that they fully intend to prevent any attempt to deal with the deficit, unless the other side does what they want. Only one Party looks at the problems the nation is facing, and says "Y'know, if we block any attempt to deal with this problem, we can demand a lot". I can tell you right now, that the Republican Party's position, for the next two years, is going to be "We're in a position where we can harm the country, and Obama will get the blame for it." (Because it's what they've been doing, for the last four years, and it worked for them, some, and they haven't been punished for it, at all.) (And, if they don;t get punished for it, in 2014, they'll keep doing it for the next two years, too.) ---------- Years ago, my Mom asked me how long they were going to keep prosecuting Bill Clinton, without finding anything. My response was "Until the Republican Party looses a dozen seats in the House" I was correct. Well, they're going to keep blocking any attempt to make the country better, to reach across the aisle, to deal with the deficit, until blaming Obama for their actions stop working, and costs them some power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 LOL, I'm already getting the angry neo-con accusations that its my fault Romney lost. They just cant seem to get it that the GOP LOST my vote that they probably could have had! We warned them ad nauseum, they didnt listen and they rejected us.I love the look on their face when I calmly explain how they f'ed up. No defense After the last decade, I think it's pretty likely that I will never vote R again. Frankly, I think that they are a threat to the future of the country. Decades ago, I thought the same thing of the Ds. (I've since come to the conclusion that my painting them as so evil was an exaggeration. But not completely untrue.) There are things that the R's talk about, that I think are important. #1 on the list is the deficit. But frankly, I've come to the conclusion that the Ds are better on that issue than the Rs. I've decided that to the Rs, the deficit is something that they talk about, as part of their agenda to try to force the Ds to get rid of Medicare and SS. The Ds at least occasionally try to do something about it. (Not necessarily because I think the Ds are more ethical or actually care more about the deficit. But simply in recognition that they're vulnerable on the issue, and they have to occasionally do something about it, or they'll get kicked out of office.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I can tell you right now, that the Republican Party's position, for the next two years, is going to be "We're in a position where we can harm the country, and Obama will get the blame for it." (Because it's what they've been doing, for the last four years, and it worked for them, some, and they haven't been punished for it, at all.) In a way though, there's hope in this. There's just not a lot to be gained by trying to defeat Obama right now. He's not running anymore. The electorate and especially the battlegrounds declared they don't blame him. The Tea Party did get hit in the election, however. Right now, the Republicans have every reason in the world to push a reasonable agenda and make sure everyone knows it's theirs. Honestly, I think if they do the next go around is theirs. After all, do you really see Biden as President next? I don't think Hilary wants to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 ...This I do not believe. How do you know healthcare preimiums would have rose more without obamacare? AND no way in hell will insurance premiums stop rising...come talk to me in four years and we will see how much your health insurance premium has rose, unless you don't pay for health insurance... So, your first question is "How can you say insurance rates would have risen without Obama?" (I will observe that the obvious answer is "100 years of history?") And your second is "Insurance rates always go up"? Is it really necessary for me to point out that you've answered your own question? ---------- Post added November-7th-2012 at 10:57 AM ---------- I will definitely not enjoy anything about our choices, but I knew how that was gonna work out many months before the convention.just so you understand, I say this with bile in my throat and anger in my heart rather than glee. It was an opportunity lost for real true liberty and righting the ship. It makes me sick that the GOP threw it away out of nothing more than hubris and arrogance. Thats what happens when you run a big government establishment big spender against another one. Right. The Republicans lost because they didn't go extreme right wing enough. Please keep insisting on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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